This IS the Avid L2: 9/27/09

Saturday, October 3, 2009

Re: [Avid-L2] Re: Why isn't Avid marketing all over this story?

On 04/10/2009, at 4:33 PM, Job ter Burg (L2B) wrote:

> "IAN WILSON" (04-10-2009 00:26) :
>
>> Have you looked at
>> the RED workflow on AVID, you need to be a Rocket Scientist, as
>> opposed to having a RedRocket card.
>
> Come on. Avid Red workflow is pretty good, I know from experience.
> FCP-Red
> workflow is hyped up to be more than it is in reality (at least that
> is what
> FCP editors doing features tell me). And RedRocket, as I have been
> told, is
> far from a finished product.

At the end of the day we want drag and drop .R3D files. At the moment
FCP is the closest to that with the RR card and LAT. Can you see Avid
supporting this card? thats the key to the workflow. You are correct
in that RR is still in Alpha, but its out there.

Colortape Productions
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m 0418 327 082
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IAN WILSON

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Re: [Avid-L2] Re: Why isn't Avid marketing all over this story?

On 04/10/2009, at 4:26 PM, David Dodson wrote:

> You cut features online in FCP? How do you cut a 35mm feature for
> wide theatrical distribution "online" in FCP?

Our features are mostly distributed electronically. We always shoot
RED 4K (for DOF reasons), but mostly finish 2K or 1080 (there is only
128 vertical pixels difference between RED's definition of 2K and
1080), at the moment, because there is no support for the REDRocket
cards we have, we usually stay in ProRez HQ. As soon as Apple
implement the RR version of the SDK (it should appear as an option in
LAT) we will debayer on the fly at 2K and then "Round Robin" back into
COLOR for grading. Thats the theory anyway. Until Apple pull their
finger out on the RR cards, we are just using them to fast render to
ProREZ HQ. We have not gone to 4:4:4:4 yet, there may be some issues.
We are only dealing with 36MB/s (RC36) the RR card does the heavy
debayering lifting.

If it's a hit and they want a wider distribution we produce a 2K DI
and print from that (at that point we will have budget to go to
Scratch for output).

In my experience, Its always about content seldom quality.

Most of our work although made for theatre in mind, ends up as DVD or
TV, the Producer in 90% of cases have high ideals that are seldom
achieved, something I would never discourage.

Colortape Productions
222a Bay Street
PORT MELBOURNE, VICTORIA 3207
AUSTRALIA
+61 3 9580 5098
m 0418 327 082
Skype idwctp

IAN WILSON

http://twitter.com/wilsonid

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Re: [Avid-L2] Re: Why isn't Avid marketing all over this story?

"IAN WILSON" (04-10-2009 00:26) :

> Have you looked at
> the RED workflow on AVID, you need to be a Rocket Scientist, as
> opposed to having a RedRocket card.

Come on. Avid Red workflow is pretty good, I know from experience. FCP-Red
workflow is hyped up to be more than it is in reality (at least that is what
FCP editors doing features tell me). And RedRocket, as I have been told, is
far from a finished product.

--
Job ter Burg
film editor - NL

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Re: [Avid-L2] Re: Why isn't Avid marketing all over this story?

You cut features online in FCP? How do you cut a 35mm feature for wide theatrical distribution "online" in FCP?

D
David Dodson
davidadodson@sbcglobal.net
818-541-1225
818-523-0905 mobile

________________________________
From: IAN WILSON <ian@colortape.tv>
To: "Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com" <Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, October 4, 2009 2:26:55 AM
Subject: Re: [Avid-L2] Re: Why isn't Avid marketing all over this story?

chlowden obviously comes from an
ennvironment where money is no object. What drove me out of the AVID
camp at the time was cost (not so much the case now). Now when I
suggest to the Editors that we could go back to Avid, there is no
interest.
The remarks about not being able to cut a Feature on FCP are rubbish.
We cut all our stuff online, what's this matchback? Have you looked at
the RED workflow on AVID, you need to be a Rocket Scientist, as
opposed to having a RedRocket card.

Ian Wilson
Colortape Productions
Ian@colortape. tv
0418 327 082
Via iPhone

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[Avid-L2] Re: Why isn't Avid marketing all over this story?

>
> > Posted by: trevatpc
> > And requires some ground rules ahead of time if you are going to be
> > able to find anything.

> --Oliver Peters <oliverpeters@...> wrote:
> Just like FCP and FC Server with Xsan ;-)
>

Exactly.

With somewhat similar issues to those experienced on Artbox/FCS in development and implementation. Both need thoughts and expertise in the planning & operational phase (for which read you have to pay them top $).

And Avid ar driven by / are driving Apple. So I want them both to be incredibly successful

OP made valid points about Avid PR though..

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[Avid-L2] Re: Why isn't Avid marketing all over this story?

Well.

Some replies are like "it isn't that xxx wasn't better or yyy wasn't up
to it"

Yikes!

Marketing, folks. Gimmee an M, gimmee an A...)

Since when has ANYBODY heard "other brands will probably shampoo your
hair just as well as ours, but we'd like you to try ours so we can feed
our kids."

Or "Coke is Life! But Pepsi's pretty good too. In fact, it's a little
sweeter."

M A R K E T I N G

And the point that Avid Management missed an opportunity to alter the
public's PERCEPTION.

Do I have to spell EVERYTHING out? (Oh, right, of course I do, it's an
email list).

jh
(does car ads but rides a mo'sickle)

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Re: [Avid-L2] Re: Why isn't Avid marketing all over this story?

On 4. okt. 2009, at 00.26, IAN WILSON wrote:

> Have you looked at
> the RED workflow on AVID, you need to be a Rocket Scientist, as
> opposed to having a RedRocket card.

This I can relate to. Is it even possible to make a worse interface
than MetaFuze? I could write a doctorate on how wrong it is. Whoever
wrote it should be brutally punished.

This is where Avid fails. They give you the tools, but expect you to
be a masochistic engineer to be able to use it. Compare that to the
sleek modular workflow of the RED tools, or brilliant ancillary
products like Monkey Extract. Working with RED is straight forward
once you get it. But MetaFuze pretends it's something horribly
difficult. It disgusts me.

K
____________________
Knut A. Helgeland
TOXIC
knut@toxic.no

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Re: [Avid-L2] Re: Why isn't Avid marketing all over this story?

On 04/10/2009, at 12:20 PM, Philip Hodgetts wrote:

>
> On Oct 3, 2009, at 3:26 PM, IAN WILSON wrote:
>>
>> We cut all our stuff online, what's this matchback? Have you looked
>> at
>> the RED workflow on AVID, you need to be a Rocket Scientist, as
>> opposed to having a RedRocket card.
>
> I've been teaching that today. While I've got a lot of respect for
> Media Composer

<SNIP>

I miss our Media Composers, I would go back in a flash, if our Editors
agreed and I would put up with the RED problems, but it ain't going to
happen. Also most of our Freelance Editors have had no experience on
Avid, some of them have not even heard of it.

With Apple appearing not to be paying much attention to the SDK for
Red Rocket, we are just using our RR cards to do faster ProRez.

<SNIP>

Now, if I can just get Zacuto to do a viewfinder for my iPhone http://www.zacuto.com/z-finder-dslr-viewfinder
just Twittered them.

Colortape Productions
222a Bay Street
PORT MELBOURNE, VICTORIA 3207
AUSTRALIA
+61 3 9580 5098
m 0418 327 082
Skype idwctp

IAN WILSON

http://twitter.com/wilsonid

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Re: [Avid-L2] Re: Why isn't Avid marketing all over this story?

On Oct 3, 2009, at 4:37 PM, oliverpetersvidy wrote:

> Shirley,
>
>> guanacaa wrote:
>> but in earlier versions I recall that it used to
>> nest the sequence you sourced from.
>
> That's the default behavior but it can be remapped. I'm not sure how
> long the function has been there, but more that 3 1/2 years.
> "Overwrite/Insert with sequence content". Item 1 on this blog post ;-)

I think FCP 4.

Philip

Philip Hodgetts
President, Intelligent Assistance
AssistedEditing.com Fast First Cuts, Metadata Worfklows
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Re: [Avid-L2] Re: Why isn't Avid marketing all over this story?

On Oct 3, 2009, at 3:26 PM, IAN WILSON wrote:
>
> We cut all our stuff online, what's this matchback? Have you looked at
> the RED workflow on AVID, you need to be a Rocket Scientist, as
> opposed to having a RedRocket card.

I've been teaching that today. While I've got a lot of respect for
Media Composer - particularly that no metadata is lost and it can all
be displayed - RED workflow with Media composer is difficult, unless
you're going to finish with DNxHD 175x to HD sizes (being Avid I
therefore mean 1080) using Symphony for finishing and color
correction. It's the workflows around matching back that suck! (Irony??)

If you want to match back via REDcine, the ALE has to originate from a
REDcine XML file. If you want to finish on DS then you have to start
with MetaFuze, but oh, that can't be on the same system as the DS
because there's a conflict. Oh, that also doesn't give you audio...

Balancing that is where you like to correct color, but if you want to
do your final finish from RAW (given you can't write to it) then FCP
does seem to have the more transparent workflow, by about a dozen
fewer steps.

But i do like the metadata retention. :)

Philip

Personal Blog http://philiphodgetts.com
Cell 818 335 3916

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Re: [Avid-L2] Re: Why isn't Avid marketing all over this story?

Once again, Oliver, you come to the rescue! I LOATHE nested sequences. Thank you!
Shirley

-----Original Message-----
From: oliverpetersvidy <oliverpeters@oliverpeters.com>
To: Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sat, Oct 3, 2009 4:37 pm
Subject: [Avid-L2] Re: Why isn't Avid marketing all over this story?

Shirley,

> guanacaa wrote:
> but in earlier versions I recall that it used to
> nest the sequence you sourced from.

That's the default behavior but it can be remapped. I'm not sure how long the
function has been there, but more that 3 1/2 years. "Overwrite/Insert with
sequence content". Item 1 on this blog post ;-)

http://tinyurl.com/5t6qqm

- Oliver

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[Avid-L2] Re: Why isn't Avid marketing all over this story?

Shirley,

> guanacaa wrote:
> but in earlier versions I recall that it used to
> nest the sequence you sourced from.

That's the default behavior but it can be remapped. I'm not sure how long the function has been there, but more that 3 1/2 years. "Overwrite/Insert with sequence content". Item 1 on this blog post ;-)

http://tinyurl.com/5t6qqm

- Oliver

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Re: [Avid-L2] Re: Why isn't Avid marketing all over this story?

I asked someone about these not long ago and the answers I got were:
Yes... and yes...

HTH

Benjamin Hershleder
http://ContactBen.com

Wear It In Post!
Fun T-shirts, mousepads & more
for Post Production Professionals
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On Oct 3, 2009, at 3:23 PM, guanacaa@aol.com wrote:

> I haven't tried this in a while on FCP, but in earlier versions I
> recall that it used to nest the sequence you sourced from. Does it
> still do this? And was there always a workaround?
> Shirley
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: oliverpetersvidy <oliverpeters@oliverpeters.com>
> To: Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Sat, Oct 3, 2009 7:41 am
> Subject: [Avid-L2] Re: Why isn't Avid marketing all over this story?
>
> Christopher,
>
> > chlowden wrote:
> > Don't forget the great advantage that Avid has over FCP.
> > You can not easily cut between sequences. That alone keeps
> > FCP out of the mainstream feature film market ...
>
> No offense, but this simply isn't true in my experience. FCP permits
> you to load
> a sequence into the viewer and use it as a source to cut to a new
> sequence. Or,
> you can copy & paste clips between sequences. I do this all the time
> and have
> done so on numerous documentaries, TV shows and films.
>
> I do agree that cut lists are another story. But quite frankly the
> last 35mm
> feature I did went through a DI and, even though I cut on Avid and
> supplied all
> the necessary lists, the only thing they used was an EDL.
>
> - Oliver
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Search the offical complete Avid-L archives at:
>
> http://archives.bengrosser.com/avid/
>
> Avid L2, Where the Answers are.Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>

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Re: [Avid-L2] Re: Why isn't Avid marketing all over this story?

Ian Wilson
Colortape Productions
Ian@colortape.tv
0418 327 082
Via iPhone

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Re: [Avid-L2] Re: Why isn't Avid marketing all over this story?

I thought he meant that it was easier to source from sequences in Avid, not in FCP.
Shirley

-----Original Message-----
From: Steve Hullfish <Steve@veralith.com>
To: Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sat, Oct 3, 2009 7:01 am
Subject: Re: [Avid-L2] Re: Why isn't Avid marketing all over this story?

I've got a question about the very end of this post. Please understand
that I am not attacking your argument. I want to have a discussion.

I think that it is very easy to cut between sequences. I know that in
FCP you can have multiple sequences in tabs but in Avid you can call
up a bin from any project if you want to and load a sequence in the
source monitor and cut from sequence to sequence. I do this all the
time. I often like to create "selects" reels that I then edit from. I
also do multiple versions of traliers and spots and often cut sections
of one version to put into a different version. To me it's about as
fast as cutting from the source. Can you elaborate on why FCP is easier?

You consider the ease to be a problem. Why? Because if keeps you from
frame rates? That issue seems to have gone away with 4.0, though I
haven't played with it yet.

On Oct 3, 2009, at 4:22 AM, chlowden wrote:
>
> Don't forget the great advantage that Avid has over FCP. You can not
> easily cut between sequences. That alone keeps FCP out of the
> mainstream feature film market ...
>
>
>

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Re: [Avid-L2] Re: Why isn't Avid marketing all over this story?

I haven't tried this in a while on FCP, but in earlier versions I recall that it used to nest the sequence you sourced from. Does it still do this? And was there always a workaround?
Shirley

-----Original Message-----
From: oliverpetersvidy <oliverpeters@oliverpeters.com>
To: Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sat, Oct 3, 2009 7:41 am
Subject: [Avid-L2] Re: Why isn't Avid marketing all over this story?

Christopher,

> chlowden wrote:
> Don't forget the great advantage that Avid has over FCP.
> You can not easily cut between sequences. That alone keeps
> FCP out of the mainstream feature film market ...

No offense, but this simply isn't true in my experience. FCP permits you to load
a sequence into the viewer and use it as a source to cut to a new sequence. Or,
you can copy & paste clips between sequences. I do this all the time and have
done so on numerous documentaries, TV shows and films.

I do agree that cut lists are another story. But quite frankly the last 35mm
feature I did went through a DI and, even though I cut on Avid and supplied all
the necessary lists, the only thing they used was an EDL.

- Oliver

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[Avid-L2] Re: I

Sorry for the cryptic "Subject" entry.

--- In Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com, "blafarm" <blafarm@...> wrote:
>
> I was reading this recent press release -- especially the yellow-highlighted text - and began to wonder if Squeeze was somehow more integrated into MC 4 than it had formerly been.
>
> Is this the case -- or is it the same old workflow?
>
> http://awurl.com/8ei9JJTPk
>
> Thanks
>

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[Avid-L2] I

I was reading this recent press release -- especially the yellow-highlighted text - and began to wonder if Squeeze was somehow more integrated into MC 4 than it had formerly been.

Is this the case -- or is it the same old workflow?

http://awurl.com/8ei9JJTPk

Thanks

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[Avid-L2] Re: MC 4.02 all kind of trouble

I'd go back to 3.5.x if you need a working system this soon.

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[Avid-L2] MC 4.02 all kind of trouble

Just installed 4.02, and can't get it to work properly
- I have to remove MCstate before every launch, otherwise i get
"this volume is not yet been monted by the application. You can either mount
all volumes or load another project"
This comes up on old projects and even when i try to create a new one.

-AMA mounted GFcam clips consolidated to a media drive gives me trouble
sometimes:
Clips are corrupt with a 'Get finished frame decompression error in clip
xxxxxx error code CmError_Codec

Short of a clean system install, anything that can help?
(I need this system up and running in 36 hours...)

Bouke

VideoToolShed
van Oldenbarneveltstraat 33
6512 AS NIJMEGEN
The Netherlands
+31 24 3553311
www.videotoolshed.com
For large files:
http://dropbox.yousendit.com/BoukeVahl998172

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[Avid-L2] Re: Why isn't Avid marketing all over this story?

Christopher,

> chlowden wrote:
> Don't forget the great advantage that Avid has over FCP.
> You can not easily cut between sequences. That alone keeps
> FCP out of the mainstream feature film market ...

No offense, but this simply isn't true in my experience. FCP permits you to load a sequence into the viewer and use it as a source to cut to a new sequence. Or, you can copy & paste clips between sequences. I do this all the time and have done so on numerous documentaries, TV shows and films.

I do agree that cut lists are another story. But quite frankly the last 35mm feature I did went through a DI and, even though I cut on Avid and supplied all the necessary lists, the only thing they used was an EDL.

- Oliver

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[Avid-L2] Re: Why isn't Avid marketing all over this story?

> Posted by: trevatpc
> And requires some ground rules ahead of time if you are going to be
> able to find anything.

Just like FCP and FC Server with Xsan ;-)

- Oliver

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Re: [Avid-L2] Re: Why isn't Avid marketing all over this story?

I've got a question about the very end of this post. Please understand
that I am not attacking your argument. I want to have a discussion.

You consider the ease to be a problem. Why? Because if keeps you from
frame rates? That issue seems to have gone away with 4.0, though I
haven't played with it yet.

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[Avid-L2] Re: Why isn't Avid marketing all over this story?

For what it is worth, I over see an Avid park with server and FCP with server. Plus they often have to work together.I also oversee loads of feature films, predominately on Avid and some FCP, all with servers.

Firstly, I think that the answer to the question, which is better is written on the box. FINAL CUT, for me, means that it is a systems primarily conceived to go to final cut. FINAL CUT STUDIO is an extremely complete collection of tools to do just that. AVID MEDIA COMPOSER is an excellent tool for composing and is far better than FCP at supplying industry standard interchange files (OMF, AAF, CUT LISTS, EDLS) than FCP. FCP is still nothing short of a nightmare for feature film cutlists, primarily because FCP editors, through the FCP architecture, are not forced to take into consideration labs etc. Anything goes in FCP.

The methodology of both systems is very different and above all, the way that FCP or Avid editors go about do things is very different. I find that generally, the photoshop generation has an easier time with FCP, but in a broadcast environment, Avid is better adapted to strict workflows. Each has as many bugs. What puts FCP at a disadvantage for me that it can ingest very quickly, just about anything, including nasty corrupted files from the web that reveal their nastiness when doing digital cuts. Avid is far more exacting in the begining but saves time back end (which personally I prefer). Many TV stations in france prefer daytime and fast turnaround short TV on FCP. It is cheap and easy. The Avid is prefered for longer form work, particularly when cuts are being sent between numerous facilities.

Don't forget the great advantage that Avid has over FCP. You can not easily cut between sequences. That alone keeps FCP out of the mainstream feature film market ...

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Friday, October 2, 2009

[Avid-L2] Re: Why isn't Avid marketing all over this story?

--- "Mark" <markraudonis@...> wrote:
>
> The old "shared project" cry is just irrelevent to us.

And us too, once you embrace the Interplay workflow...

Work in a local project with the same name as editors B through X. If I've got a bin called "Junk" and editor B has a bin called "Junk" then we can have one siftable folder on IP that is filled with our Junk. (Ditto "Music", "SFX", "Rough Cuts" etc). Media tool is toast.

*So* much quicker to Access via IP than via shared bins (but there's a lot of muscle memory to be unlearnt).

And requires some ground rules ahead of time if you are going to be able to find anything.

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[Avid-L2] Re: meridien update

That's nothing. I still have an operational ABVB system.

--- In Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com, Wilson Chao <wilsonchao@...> wrote:
>
> Keep the faith!
>
>
>
> On Fri, Oct 2, 2009 at 9:29 AM, joshua schwarz <postjosh@...> wrote:
> > i'm still running the '58 chevy of avids: the meridien.
>

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[Avid-L2] Re: Why isn't Avid marketing all over this story?

Who's Ellen and why should we care if she's on Avid or FCP, or even if she's bi?

--- In Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com, Steve Hullfish <Steve@...> wrote:

> Ellen was on Avid, then went to FCP, and then came back to Avid.
show everyone who the big dog is and WHY you're the big dog.
{snip}
> Figure out what Avid editors who've switched (or are "bi") like

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[Avid-L2] Re: Why isn't Avid marketing all over this story?

Dom,

This is really old news for us.

To answer your question: We're an all FCP shop. Have been for five years now. The show came to us, so there never was a question as to which system we'd use. Of course it would be FCP and X-SAN. Many of the editors on season six had been with us for a long time, so their transition to FCP was done years ago. Yes, they "used to be" Avid editors. Way back when (five years ago) we paid for their training to transition to FCP. We only felt it was fair. Now... you either come to the party with the skills to play on our field or you find somewhere else to play.

By the way, five years ago, out of the 100 editors we "transitioned" only ONE refused to go. Since then, we've never looked back.

I think it's interesting to note that we didn't even think it was news to post an article about "Project Runway" now cutting on FCP. It was just business as usual.

Mark

--- In Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com, "Dom Q. Silverio" <domqsilverio@...> wrote:
>
> About it ---
>
> The Avid to FCP and back to Avid was brought up. My point was, Project
> Runway was an Avid show (AFAIK - feel free to correct). So the migration
> to your company had to be a) Avid or b) FCP. Knowing you and your
> company, I assumed you pressed for FCP. If that was the case, did the
> show editors stayed or new ones hired. If the old ones stayed, how was
> the adjustment. How much training was needed or where the old editors
> already proficient in FCP (which is my guess).
>
> DQS
>
>
> Mark wrote:
> > "Dom Q. Silverio"wrote:
> > ... and why I am waiting on Mark's feedback regarding Project Runway.
> >
> > What about it? The PR season currently on the air was completed last year. It's done and done. Season 7 is about halfway through post.
> >
> > Everything we do is on FCP and X-SAN in a group workflow with multiple
> > editors sharing episodes. It's worked for us for the past five years. Anyone who knows me or the company I work for understands that a shared storage, group based workflow with FCP is quite possible. In fact, we've pioneered the integration of post, story, music, and production using AFP connections, iMacs and many other tricks that just aren't possible with Unity. The old "shared project" cry is just irrelevent to us. We've come up with workflows and media organization methods that actually play to the strengths of FCP media management.
> >
> > My personal take on the this "non story" is that somebody had their lollipop taken away and whined until they got it back.
> >
> > Mark
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > Search the offical complete Avid-L archives at:
> >
> > http://archives.bengrosser.com/avid/
> >
> > Avid L2, Where the Answers are.Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> Dom Q. Silverio
>

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Re: [Avid-L2] Re: Why isn't Avid marketing all over this story?

About it ---

The Avid to FCP and back to Avid was brought up. My point was, Project
Runway was an Avid show (AFAIK - feel free to correct). So the migration
to your company had to be a) Avid or b) FCP. Knowing you and your
company, I assumed you pressed for FCP. If that was the case, did the
show editors stayed or new ones hired. If the old ones stayed, how was
the adjustment. How much training was needed or where the old editors
already proficient in FCP (which is my guess).

DQS

Mark wrote:
> "Dom Q. Silverio"wrote:
> ... and why I am waiting on Mark's feedback regarding Project Runway.
>
> What about it? The PR season currently on the air was completed last year. It's done and done. Season 7 is about halfway through post.
>
> Everything we do is on FCP and X-SAN in a group workflow with multiple
> editors sharing episodes. It's worked for us for the past five years. Anyone who knows me or the company I work for understands that a shared storage, group based workflow with FCP is quite possible. In fact, we've pioneered the integration of post, story, music, and production using AFP connections, iMacs and many other tricks that just aren't possible with Unity. The old "shared project" cry is just irrelevent to us. We've come up with workflows and media organization methods that actually play to the strengths of FCP media management.
>
> My personal take on the this "non story" is that somebody had their lollipop taken away and whined until they got it back.
>
> Mark
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Search the offical complete Avid-L archives at:
>
> http://archives.bengrosser.com/avid/
>
> Avid L2, Where the Answers are.Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>

--
Dom Q. Silverio

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[Avid-L2] Re: Why isn't Avid marketing all over this story?

Not making air or barely making air eventually makes someone look like a sucker. If my lollipop works why take it away when I've been a good boy. ;-)

--- In Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com, "Mark" <markraudonis@...> wrote:
>
>
>

> My personal take on the this "non story" is that somebody had their lollipop taken away and whined until they got it back.
>
> Mark
>

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[Avid-L2] Re: Why isn't Avid marketing all over this story?

"Dom Q. Silverio"wrote:
... and why I am waiting on Mark's feedback regarding Project Runway.

What about it? The PR season currently on the air was completed last year. It's done and done. Season 7 is about halfway through post.

Everything we do is on FCP and X-SAN in a group workflow with multiple
editors sharing episodes. It's worked for us for the past five years. Anyone who knows me or the company I work for understands that a shared storage, group based workflow with FCP is quite possible. In fact, we've pioneered the integration of post, story, music, and production using AFP connections, iMacs and many other tricks that just aren't possible with Unity. The old "shared project" cry is just irrelevent to us. We've come up with workflows and media organization methods that actually play to the strengths of FCP media management.

My personal take on the this "non story" is that somebody had their lollipop taken away and whined until they got it back.

Mark

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[Avid-L2] Re: Why isn't Avid marketing all over this story?

--- In Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com, "Dom Q. Silverio" <domqsilverio@...> wrote:

<<... and why I am waiting on Mark's feedback regarding Project Runway.>>

Well, I can tell you from experience that the finishing is being done on a Terrablock. Both audio and video.

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Re: [Avid-L2] meridien update

On Oct 2, 2009, at 9:29 AM, joshua schwarz wrote:

> although never approved by avid, i have been running the system on a
mac quicksilver dual processor 800mhz g4 for years. it's quicker than
the aproved macs and i have had no issues with it.

I exclaim:

Hey Josh, I have that same computer except that I've upgraded it with
a PowerLogix dual G4 1.8GHz processor. That made it noticeably faster.
After using it for some time as my FCP edit system, I now do all my
household work on it, such as email, word processing, some PhotoShop,
etc. Avid was never on it.
It's been a while since we've talked. Ever hear from any other former
Unitel-ites? (or would that be "Unitel-ians"?)

Dennis Degan, Video Editor-Consultant-Knowledge Bank
NBC Today Show, New York

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[Avid-L2] Re: Why isn't Avid marketing all over this story?

Steve,

> Steve Hullfish wrote:
> I've interviewed plenty of FCP folks with big, connected
> set-ups, though and the amount of jury-rigging and
> workarounds that I witness to get FCP to work in a
> group environment leads me to believe that FCP
> isn't right for MOST installations unless you are
> working on your own independent project.

Well, maybe... But, as someone who actually does work in a shared FCP environment on occasion - that also happens to be in the same facility as an Avid Unity - I'd say that I don't see these workarounds myself. However, I do agree that in a large broadcast facility, I'd go with Avid, too. I think the key with FCP is the workflows and ground rules set down by the senior editors. Avid doesn't leave it up to you. Apple does. Pick your poison.

- Oliver

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Re: [Avid-L2] Re: Why isn't Avid marketing all over this story?

... and why I am waiting on Mark's feedback regarding Project Runway.

Dom Q. Silverio

On Fri, Oct 2, 2009 at 4:01 PM, Steve Hullfish <Steve@veralith.com> wrote:
> I think the article made it abundantly clear that the Avid editors
> were only claiming that FCP wasn't right for their SPECIFIC workflow.
>
> I've interviewed plenty of FCP folks with big, connected set-ups,
> though and the amount of jury-rigging and workarounds that I witness
> to get FCP to work in a group environment leads me to believe that FCP
> isn't right for MOST installations unless you are working on your own
> independent project.
>
> Don't get me wrong. I am editing a job right now and I'm cutting it on
> FCP. So as much as I love my Meridien Symphony and MCSoft, I still do
> certain projects on FCP. I'm not saying that it's bad software, but I
> AM saying that FCP is a bad choice in a lot of situations that are
> very professional. That doesn't mean that FCP editors AREN'T
> professional or that FCP isn't a professional app. It simply means
> that Avid knows the high-end, deadline driven part of the business
> that relies on multiple professionals working together in post to
> deliver a product and they do THAT better than FCP.
>
> If I ran a TV station or a network, I would count on Avid. If I was
> running an ad agency, I might consider FCP. If I was cutting a
> documentary... well, that could go either way, but I'd prefer a bunch
> of the tools in Avid.
>
> On Oct 2, 2009, at 2:39 PM, Oliver Peters wrote:
>
>> Steve,
>>
>> This same article has been debated on a few other forums, too.
>> Unfortunately it doesn't sound to me like FCP wasn't capable of doing
>> the job. It sounds to me like a crew of Avid editors who wanted to set
>> up FCP shared storage like Avid Unity and weren't ready to change the
>> workflow to make it work. There may be valid reasons for this, but it
>> doesn't make one or the other system more appropriate for the task.
>> Only for this situation. It also sounds like too little storage was
>> installed, which wasn't the fault of either system.
>>
>> - Oliver
>>
>>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Search the offical complete Avid-L archives at:
>
> http://archives.bengrosser.com/avid/
>
> Avid L2, Where the Answers are.Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>

------------------------------------

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Re: [Avid-L2] Re: Why isn't Avid marketing all over this story?

I think the article made it abundantly clear that the Avid editors
were only claiming that FCP wasn't right for their SPECIFIC workflow.

I've interviewed plenty of FCP folks with big, connected set-ups,
though and the amount of jury-rigging and workarounds that I witness
to get FCP to work in a group environment leads me to believe that FCP
isn't right for MOST installations unless you are working on your own
independent project.

Don't get me wrong. I am editing a job right now and I'm cutting it on
FCP. So as much as I love my Meridien Symphony and MCSoft, I still do
certain projects on FCP. I'm not saying that it's bad software, but I
AM saying that FCP is a bad choice in a lot of situations that are
very professional. That doesn't mean that FCP editors AREN'T
professional or that FCP isn't a professional app. It simply means
that Avid knows the high-end, deadline driven part of the business
that relies on multiple professionals working together in post to
deliver a product and they do THAT better than FCP.

If I ran a TV station or a network, I would count on Avid. If I was
running an ad agency, I might consider FCP. If I was cutting a
documentary... well, that could go either way, but I'd prefer a bunch
of the tools in Avid.

On Oct 2, 2009, at 2:39 PM, Oliver Peters wrote:

> Steve,
>
> This same article has been debated on a few other forums, too.
> Unfortunately it doesn't sound to me like FCP wasn't capable of doing
> the job. It sounds to me like a crew of Avid editors who wanted to set
> up FCP shared storage like Avid Unity and weren't ready to change the
> workflow to make it work. There may be valid reasons for this, but it
> doesn't make one or the other system more appropriate for the task.
> Only for this situation. It also sounds like too little storage was
> installed, which wasn't the fault of either system.
>
> - Oliver
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

------------------------------------

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[Avid-L2] Re: Why isn't Avid marketing all over this story?

Steve,

This same article has been debated on a few other forums, too.
Unfortunately it doesn't sound to me like FCP wasn't capable of doing
the job. It sounds to me like a crew of Avid editors who wanted to set
up FCP shared storage like Avid Unity and weren't ready to change the
workflow to make it work. There may be valid reasons for this, but it
doesn't make one or the other system more appropriate for the task.
Only for this situation. It also sounds like too little storage was
installed, which wasn't the fault of either system.

- Oliver

------------------------------------

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Re: [Avid-L2] Why isn't Avid marketing all over this story?

"Anything less than realtime is a lifetime"

I know that's right.

Curtis Nichols
Señor Editor
PCS Production Co.
Irving, Tx.
------------------

________________________________
From: Dave Spraker <avid@spraker.tv>

Before I was an Avid Pimp, I sold TV news to the masses...

http://www.jeffpatterson.tv/main/item.php?item=doppler

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Re: [Avid-L2] Why isn't Avid marketing all over this story?

Posted the story, right under the What's New in 4.0 blurb:
http://hershleder.com/avid_information

Adding:
Check out the What's New in 4.0 page too. I've embedded Steve Cohen's
great video covering the new Transition Retention feature, a video
from Avid about Mix & Match, and a list of most of the new things. Let
me know what I missed.

Cheers,

Benjamin Hershleder
http://ContactBen.com

Wear It In Post!
Fun T-shirts, mousepads & more
for Post Production Professionals
http://www.WearItInPost.com

On Oct 2, 2009, at 10:15 AM, Dave Spraker wrote:

> Before I was an Avid Pimp, I sold TV news to the masses...
>
> http://www.jeffpatterson.tv/main/item.php?item=doppler
>
> Dave Spraker
> Account Executive & Avid Specialist
> Professional Video and Tape
> 503.810.3642 - cell
> AIM: dAVID at PVT
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com] On
> Behalf Of
> Benjamin Hershleder
> Sent: Friday, October 02, 2009 10:06 AM
> To: Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Avid-L2] Why isn't Avid marketing all over this story?
>
> On Oct 2, 2009, at 9:55 AM, Dave Spraker wrote:
> > I guess that means it's going viral...Ellen dances back to Avid!
> >
>
> I'll be adding this story to my site,
> and I'll be using your headline Dave.
> Good one . . .
>
> B
>
> Benjamin Hershleder
> http://ContactBen. <http://ContactBen.com> com
>
> Wear It In Post!
> Fun T-shirts, mousepads & more
> for Post Production Professionals
> http://www.WearItIn <http://www.WearItInPost.com> Post.com
>
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Avid-L2@yahoogroups <mailto:Avid-L2%40yahoogroups.com> .com
> [mailto:Avid-L2@yahoogroups <mailto:Avid-L2%40yahoogroups.com> .com]
> On
> > Behalf Of
> > Steve Hullfish
> > Sent: Friday, October 02, 2009 9:44 AM
> > To: Avid-L2@yahoogroups <mailto:Avid-L2%40yahoogroups.com> .com
> > Cc: Marianna Montague
> > Subject: [Avid-L2] Why isn't Avid marketing all over this story?
> >
> > http://www.linkedin
> > <http://www.linkedin
> <http://www.linkedin.com/news?viewArticle=&articleID=73043348&gid=117372&art
> > .com/news?viewArticle=&articleID=73043348&gid=117372&art
> > icleURL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.studiodaily.com%2Ffilmandvideo
> > %2Fcurrentissue%2FFro
> > m-Avid-to-Final-Cut-and-Back-Again-for-
> > Ellen_11309.html&urlhash=1YAN&trk=new
> > s_discuss>
> > .com/news?viewArticle=&articleID=73043348&gid=117372&articleURL=http
> > %3A%2F%2
> > Fwww.studiodaily.com%2Ffilmandvideo%2Fcurrentissue%2FFrom-Avid-to-
> > Final-Cut-
> > and-Back-Again-for-Ellen_11309.html&urlhash=1YAN&trk=news_discuss
> >
> > Ellen was on Avid, then went to FCP, and then came back to Avid.
> I've
> > got $100 that more people know that Ellen switched to FCP than
> people
> > who know it switched BACK.
> >
> > Dear Avid Marketing People,
> > Are you awake? Are you alive? Have you all been (justifiably) laid
> > off? Someone from PR was probably on the ball to get the story
> placed,
> > but... those PR people are asleep if they think Studio Monthly is
> > still a viable outlet. I saw this from LinkedIn.
> >
> > Read the comments that follow the article. Most of them are about
> how
> > great Apple marketing is and how awful Avid marketing is. Apple can
> > get their userbase to drink any kind of KoolAid that they pour
> into a
> > cup. I don't know what the analogy for Avid is... I have a lack of
> > good ideas... God, I should work for Avid marketing!
> >
> > Here are some ideas:
> > Many companies have realized that their customers are their best
> > salespeople and equip them to deliver their marketing message,
> > essentially for free. From a customer, this is a powerful message.
> >
> > Quit trying to ignore FCP. I'm sure you feel bad that your little
> kid
> > brother is now more popular than you, but it's time to kick his butt
> > and show everyone who the big dog is and WHY you're the big dog.
> >
> > FCP stole a ton of stuff from Avid. I know they were considering
> > patent lawsuits, but didn't. So now it's time to steal some stuff
> > back. Figure out what Avid editors who've switched (or are "bi")
> like
> > about FCP and add as much of that as is possible with the current
> > architecture into Avid. Or figure out better ways to get the same
> > result that are easier with the current architecture.
> >
> > Promote Frank Capria and Marianna to EVP status, using the money
> you'd
> > been paying the VP of marketing.
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

------------------------------------

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Re: [Avid-L2] meridien update

Mine is stored in a rustic barn in France - adjoining a charming gite. Avid
editing holidays will be available from Spring 2010 (no, seriously, along
with real photographs with twin-lens reflexes, chemicals and a 5x4
enlarger). I jest not.

On 02/10/2009 17:04, "Wilson Chao" <wilsonchao@gmail.com> wrote:

> Keep the faith!
>
>
>
> On Fri, Oct 2, 2009 at 9:29 AM, joshua schwarz <postjosh@gmail.com> wrote:
>> i'm still running the '58 chevy of avids: the meridien.
>
>

+++
With best wishes,

Roger Shufflebottom
Avid Certified Instructor
http://www.bottom-line.tv
Tel: +44 1992 535 031 (UK)
Mobile: +44 7973 543 660

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Re: [Avid-L2] Who's using Newscutter?

Well, at WZZM 13 in Grand Rapids, Newscutter 6.2.9 on HP 8200.

Mathew Schirado
mattschirado@gmail.com

On Oct 2, 2009, at 10:57 AM, Wes Plate wrote:

>
> You? Email me offlist. Thanks.
>
> --
> Wes Plate
> Automatic Duck, Inc.
> http://www.automaticduck.com
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Re: [Avid-L2] Why isn't Avid marketing all over this story?

Is someone going to accidentally post this to the FCP-L just to get them started, or do I have to do it?

Rick Emery
www.rickemery.com

________________________________
From: Steve Hullfish <Steve@veralith.com>
To: Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com
Cc: Marianna Montague <marianna.montague@avid.com>
Sent: Friday, October 2, 2009 12:43:45 PM
Subject: [Avid-L2] Why isn't Avid marketing all over this story?

http://www.linkedin .com/news? viewArticle= &articleID= 73043348& gid=117372& articleURL= http%3A%2F% 2Fwww.studiodail y.com%2Ffilmandv ideo%2Fcurrentis sue%2FFrom- Avid-to-Final- Cut-and-Back- Again-for- Ellen_11309. html&urlhash= 1YAN&trk= news_discuss

Ellen was on Avid, then went to FCP, and then came back to Avid. I've
got $100 that more people know that Ellen switched to FCP than people
who know it switched BACK.

Dear Avid Marketing People,
Are you awake? Are you alive? Have you all been (justifiably) laid
off? Someone from PR was probably on the ball to get the story placed,
but... those PR people are asleep if they think Studio Monthly is
still a viable outlet. I saw this from LinkedIn.

Read the comments that follow the article. Most of them are about how
great Apple marketing is and how awful Avid marketing is. Apple can
get their userbase to drink any kind of KoolAid that they pour into a
cup. I don't know what the analogy for Avid is... I have a lack of
good ideas... God, I should work for Avid marketing!

Here are some ideas:
Many companies have realized that their customers are their best
salespeople and equip them to deliver their marketing message,
essentially for free. From a customer, this is a powerful message.

Quit trying to ignore FCP. I'm sure you feel bad that your little kid
brother is now more popular than you, but it's time to kick his butt
and show everyone who the big dog is and WHY you're the big dog.

FCP stole a ton of stuff from Avid. I know they were considering
patent lawsuits, but didn't. So now it's time to steal some stuff
back. Figure out what Avid editors who've switched (or are "bi") like
about FCP and add as much of that as is possible with the current
architecture into Avid. Or figure out better ways to get the same
result that are easier with the current architecture.

Promote Frank Capria and Marianna to EVP status, using the money you'd
been paying the VP of marketing.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

------------------------------------

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Saturday, October 3, 2009

Friday, October 2, 2009

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