Saturday, June 14, 2014

Re: [Avid-L2] BUG REPORT - AMA audio import & transcode in projects with 35mm film options

 


Metadata, mostly. The new AMA iXML plugin allows for iXML metadata to be brought in along with the file. MC used to be blind for that chunk of any BWAV.
Also, Michael P has built MusID, a plugin that lets AMA-linked audio append id3 metadata. Meaning that it allows you to bring in music and library tracks with a whole lot of data automatically.

That said, AMA'd audio does not allow for Perf Slip, so end-of-story for most double system productions that prefer sync to be actually sync.

On 15 jun. 2014, at 05:48, Steve Hullfish steve4lists@veralith.com [Avid-L2] <Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

what's the advantage to AMAing audio? 

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Posted by: "Job ter Burg (L2B)" <Job_L2@terburg.com>
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Re: [Avid-L2] Monitoring Surround

 

Hmmm, I though I would be doing that from Media Composer.  No?

-P


On 6/15/14, 1:57 AM, 'Job ter Burg (L2B)' Job_L2@terburg.com [Avid-L2] wrote:
 

On 15 jun. 2014, at 07:39, Perrone Ford perroneford@yahoo.com [Avid-L2] <Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

> I've got active monitors so I don't want to deal with an amp in the way. I'm not doing any input so the mixer just seemed like overkill.

So how would you control your monitoring volume?

You may want to shop for a 5.1 monitor controller:

http://spl.info/index.php?id=182&L=1

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/825432-REG/SM_Pro_Audio_SMP_MP5_SUR_MPATCH_5_1_PSV_MONITOR.html


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Re: [Avid-L2] Monitoring Surround

 

On 15 jun. 2014, at 07:39, Perrone Ford perroneford@yahoo.com [Avid-L2] <Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

> I've got active monitors so I don't want to deal with an amp in the way. I'm not doing any input so the mixer just seemed like overkill.

So how would you control your monitoring volume?

You may want to shop for a 5.1 monitor controller:

http://spl.info/index.php?id=182&L=1

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/825432-REG/SM_Pro_Audio_SMP_MP5_SUR_MPATCH_5_1_PSV_MONITOR.html

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Posted by: "Job ter Burg (L2B)" <Job_L2@terburg.com>
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Re: [Avid-L2] Monitoring Surround

 

Thanks,

I've been pouring over a lot of stuff tonight.  Looks like MOTU has one nice unit but they are all PCI so that won't work for me, but Matrox has one box with 6 discrete outs and another rack mount with 8 and both can use TBolt.  I've got active monitors so I don't want to deal with an amp in the way.  I'm not doing any input so the mixer just seemed like overkill.  The other benefit of going with the Matrox is that I get my video and audio monitoring in a single box so that should get it done.  I hope!

-P


On 6/15/14, 1:26 AM, 'Job ter Burg (L2B)' Job_L2@terburg.com [Avid-L2] wrote:
 

Various options. MC lets you output multichannel audio over HDMI. So if you get any home theater receiver, you can route the hdmi signal through that. Another advantage is that most of these come with a lip sync correction feature, so that you may compensate for your monitor's delay.

If you have active speakers, you may prefer a pre-amp with balanced outputs. I own a Denon professional preprocessor, A7100, that they no longer make, but the replacing mode lis the DN 500av.

This does not give you a mixer, but it does give you master room volume control. If you need a mixer, you need a BOB that gives you 5.1 i/o and a mixer with at least two stereo buses or 4 aux sends, om top of a stereo master output. I have my Yamaha 01V set up that way. Master L/R is L/R, Bus1/2 is C/Lfe, bus 3/4 is Ls/Rs (SMPTE order). Advantage is that any other sources (CD player, computer's internal audio card, etc.) can be hooked to any input of the 01V, and if i send them to the master output, they are played back over the L and R speaker.

J


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Posted by: Perrone Ford <perroneford@yahoo.com>
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Re: [Avid-L2] Monitoring Surround

 

Various options. MC lets you output multichannel audio over HDMI. So if you get any home theater receiver, you can route the hdmi signal through that. Another advantage is that most of these come with a lip sync correction feature, so that you may compensate for your monitor's delay.

If you have active speakers, you may prefer a pre-amp with balanced outputs. I own a Denon professional preprocessor, A7100, that they no longer make, but the replacing mode lis the DN 500av.

This does not give you a mixer, but it does give you master room volume control. If you need a mixer, you need a BOB that gives you 5.1 i/o and a mixer with at least two stereo buses or 4 aux sends, om top of a stereo master output. I have my Yamaha 01V set up that way. Master L/R is L/R, Bus1/2 is C/Lfe, bus 3/4 is Ls/Rs (SMPTE order). Advantage is that any other sources (CD player, computer's internal audio card, etc.) can be hooked to any input of the 01V, and if i send them to the master output, they are played back over the L and R speaker.

J

Sent from my iPad

> On 15 jun. 2014, at 00:28, "Perrone Ford perroneford@yahoo.com [Avid-L2]" <Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
>
> Ok need a bit of a lesson here.
>
> As I upgrade from MC5/MC6 to the newest version this week, I would like
> to change my setup to go from monitoring in stereo to being able to
> monitor and mix in 5.1 and 7.1. I am on an iMac. I am going to be
> buying either a matrox or BM output box for monitoring my video. Can
> someone give me a breakdown of what I will need to monitor multi-channel
> audio? Computer interface? Mixer? Will my video output box get in the
> way? Etc.
>
> Thanks very much.
>
> -Perrone
>
>
> ------------------------------------
> Posted by: Perrone Ford <PerroneFord@yahoo.com>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo Groups Links
>
>
>

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Posted by: "Job ter Burg (L2B)" <Job_L2@terburg.com>
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Re: [Avid-L2] BUG REPORT - AMA audio import & transcode in projects with 35mm film options

 

Thanks for the correction. My question stands: what's the advantage to AMAing audio? I just spent the week bringing in a ton of multi-channel audio tracks and the imports were fast. If there's a bug to AMA'd audio, the cost of importing is minimal. I love AMAing video, but audio seems pointless for probably 90% of all applications and situations. But for the 10% who need it, I'm sure they're unhappy. If Avid claims to support this, then it needs to be fixed.


Steve

On Jun 14, 2014, at 10:39 PM, Mark Spano cutandcover@gmail.com [Avid-L2] <Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 

I believe the main documentation for MC v7 had some specific language about the vastly improved AMA plugin included for audio files. Prior to v7, it was highly discouraged.

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Posted by: Steve Hullfish <steve4lists@veralith.com>
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Re: [Avid-L2] BUG REPORT - AMA audio import & transcode in projects with 35mm film options

 

Steve,

I believe the main documentation for MC v7 had some specific language about the vastly improved AMA plugin included for audio files. Prior to v7, it was highly discouraged.


On Sat, Jun 14, 2014 at 9:54 PM, Steve Hullfish steve4lists@veralith.com [Avid-L2] <Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 

I have never seen any documentation that claims that AMA of WAV is ever approved. AMA is supposed to be for video. Audio should always be imported. I reserve the right to be wrong on this one though. Anyway, why would you AMA audio when it imports so quickly? Not a sarcastic question...I'm sure there's a good reason.


Steve

On Jun 14, 2014, at 5:51 PM, Michael Brockington brocking@sfu.ca [Avid-L2] <Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


   AMA-linking .WAV audio and then transcoding it produces the error 'CM_INVALID_TRIM' at the conclusion of the transcode, 


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Posted by: Mark Spano <cutandcover@gmail.com>
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[Avid-L2] Re: NYC equivalent of Digital Service Station? Output file to tape?

 

Isn't Ken S. In NYC area? Glue Edit IIRC. Worth checking with him.

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Posted by: bigfish@pacbell.net
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Re: [Avid-L2] NYC equivalent of Digital Service Station? Output file to tape?

Not sure, but you might want to check with the Erwin Brothers production company in Birmingham... I don't have contact info.

Steve

On Jun 14, 2014, at 8:55 PM, Jeff Kreines jeff@kinetta.com [Avid-L2] <Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

> Hi:
>
> I'm in the middle of restoring a film that suddenly has to show at MoMA a week from today. MoMA does not show files — they show DCPs or tapes. They say they show HD-CAM (and I am going to assume that they include SR in that because HD-CAM sucks!).
>
> Since it won't quite be finished at that point, the filmmaker has decided that tape makes more sense — also, they can use these tapes when they license clips — so, here's my question:
>
> Who in NYC can do a 90-minute output to HD-CAM from a ProRes HQ file, quickly and at a reasonable price? Anyone in Birmingham, AL (I'm near Montgomery)?
>
> All suggestions appreciated.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Jeff
>
>
>
> Jeff Kreines
> Kinetta
> jeff@kinetta.com
> kinetta.com
> kinettaarchival.com
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo Groups Links
>
>
>
>



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Re: [Avid-L2] BUG REPORT - AMA audio import & transcode in projects with 35mm film options

 

I have never seen any documentation that claims that AMA of WAV is ever approved. AMA is supposed to be for video. Audio should always be imported. I reserve the right to be wrong on this one though. Anyway, why would you AMA audio when it imports so quickly? Not a sarcastic question...I'm sure there's a good reason.


Steve

On Jun 14, 2014, at 5:51 PM, Michael Brockington brocking@sfu.ca [Avid-L2] <Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


   AMA-linking .WAV audio and then transcoding it produces the error 'CM_INVALID_TRIM' at the conclusion of the transcode, 

__._,_.___

Posted by: Steve Hullfish <steve4lists@veralith.com>
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[Avid-L2] Microphone audio recording

 

I am trying to record a scratch track with a headset mic. I can hear it in the speaker. I go to MC 6 capture I change the Audio setting I have 2 choices Firewire or Windows Audio Mixer.

This is anew Dell XPS8700. The audio in the computer is Realtek or Dellpromaxx.

The capture tool does not have that either choice and it does not see any audio. Has anyone had this problem? Can you add different setting to capture tool? I go to input an still only have firewire or Windows Audio Mixer.

Any ideas Thanks?

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[Avid-L2] NYC equivalent of Digital Service Station? Output file to tape?

Hi:

I'm in the middle of restoring a film that suddenly has to show at MoMA a week from today. MoMA does not show files — they show DCPs or tapes. They say they show HD-CAM (and I am going to assume that they include SR in that because HD-CAM sucks!).

Since it won't quite be finished at that point, the filmmaker has decided that tape makes more sense — also, they can use these tapes when they license clips — so, here's my question:

Who in NYC can do a 90-minute output to HD-CAM from a ProRes HQ file, quickly and at a reasonable price? Anyone in Birmingham, AL (I'm near Montgomery)?

All suggestions appreciated.

Thanks,

Jeff



Jeff Kreines
Kinetta
jeff@kinetta.com
kinetta.com
kinettaarchival.com




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[Avid-L2] Monitoring Surround

 

Ok need a bit of a lesson here.

As I upgrade from MC5/MC6 to the newest version this week, I would like
to change my setup to go from monitoring in stereo to being able to
monitor and mix in 5.1 and 7.1. I am on an iMac. I am going to be
buying either a matrox or BM output box for monitoring my video. Can
someone give me a breakdown of what I will need to monitor multi-channel
audio? Computer interface? Mixer? Will my video output box get in the
way? Etc.

Thanks very much.

-Perrone

__._,_.___

Posted by: Perrone Ford <PerroneFord@yahoo.com>
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Re: [Avid-L2] BWF import problem, MC 7.0.4

 

I have not used perf projects, so I can't comment on whether your bug with those is any better in this version.

I'll admit my experience here does not cover many of the other people on this list's workflows - only adding my own in case it offers some relief…


On Sat, Jun 14, 2014 at 1:35 AM, Michael Brockington brocking@sfu.ca [Avid-L2] <Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 

Sorry, Mark, can you clarify -- was this in a project with the film options set for 35mm 4-perf?  Because having film options on is the crucial variable in seeing the CM_INVALID_TRIM error I mentioned.  I'd be very curious if you can reproduce it.

Cheers,
--Michael



On 2014-06-13, 8:50 PM, Mark Spano cutandcover@gmail.com [Avid-L2] wrote:
 
I haven't used perf slip projects in a while, but I just did this today (AMA link to multichannel BWAV, consolidate, 1080/23.976p project). The AMA implementation for audio is VASTLY improved going from v6.x to v7.0.3. I haven't tested every scenario, but it has yet to let me down in what I've needed it for.


On Fri, Jun 13, 2014 at 11:28 PM, Michael Brockington brocking@sfu.ca [Avid-L2] <Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 

Hi Mark:

  I had the same problem with consolidating AMA-linked audio on 6.0.x over a year ago, so I'm not convinced downgrading will help.

  Have you tried consolidating AMA-linked BWFs in a 23.976/1080p project, with the film options set to 35mm 4-perf?  And are you on Mac? 

Thanks,
--Michael



On 2014-06-13, 6:37 PM, Mark Spano cutandcover@gmail.com [Avid-L2] wrote:
 

Just want to mention once again, this all works fine for me on MC v7.0.3. Is there anything super important holding you at 7.0.4?

On Friday, June 13, 2014, Michael Brockington brocking@sfu.ca [Avid-L2] <Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 

It looks like AMA-import and transcode of audio files is still problematic.

When I do this, I get a CM_INVALID_TRIM error when the transcode is complete, and the Avid wants to move a big chunk of the new audio files into quarantine. 

This appears to be the same bug I described at some length on this list in Feb 2013.  In my trouble-shooting at that time I found it only happened in projects with 'film options' enabled.  Kind of a drag to see still happening on a completely different system, on the latest version of Media Composer.  My system in 2013 was not fully in spec, but this current system is, so definitely a bug.

So the only good workaround for the BWF file import seems to be this:

  • Regular import of all BWF files as mono audio wav files.
  • Select the 5 monophonic clips for each group and autosequence them into a single sequence (all the clips should line up, since they all have the same timecode)
  • Auto-sync the new sequence to produce a single subclip with 5 tracks and the correct duration.

Cheers,
--Michael


On 2014-06-13, 11:24 AM, Michael Brockington brocking@sfu.ca [Avid-L2] wrote:
 

Hi Mark & Job -- thanks for the feedback.

The most salient things that jump out at me from Michael Phillips' blog (on MC 7.0.3):
   -need to check the console for reports of timecode mismatch on AMA import (not flagged anywhere else.)
   -AMA includes more metadata fields than straight import.
   -AMA has no support for pullup/pulldown or 1/4 frame resync, even after consolidate/transcode.
   -workaround needed to get proper timecode from AMA clips into an audio EDL.
   -he says that monophonic groups aren't supported on 7.0.3, but that does appear to be working on 7.0.4 -- I'm getting 1 clip with 5 tracks via AMA import, rather than 5 mono files.

It sounds like the limitations of iXML/AMA Michael mentions are not likely to be a problem for me on this job, so if there are no horror stories I think I'll give it a whirl and see how it holds up.

Thanks,
--Michael

On 2014-06-13, 10:28 AM, Mark Spano cutandcover@gmail.com [Avid-L2] wrote:
 
Haven't had any of the issues that Michael Phillips seems to have with AMA and audio in MC v7.0.3. I never bothered with AMA audio prior to this release, because of bad implementation, but it seems to be good for me in v7.0.3. I get good metadata and mono groups no problem.

Maybe OP can roll back to 7.0.3? I haven't bothered updating because of this and other egregious bugs popping up in 7.0.4.…


On Fri, Jun 13, 2014 at 1:19 PM, 'Job ter Burg (L2B)' Job_L2@terburg.com [Avid-L2] <Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 
AMA'ing audio is not always the best way to go. 

Here's a detailed description of the AMA vs Import mess in audio these days:

Also, the OP's issue is popping up here as well:

On 13 jun. 2014, at 18:31, Mark Spano cutandcover@gmail.com [Avid-L2] <Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com>




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