This IS the Avid L2: 3/19/23

Saturday, March 25, 2023

Re: [Avid-L2] Quicklimes with wrong levels flags.

So for a test I took a 23.976 sequence one second of smpte bars and exported same as source which is DNX 175X one with legal checked and once with Scale to Full Range checked. Then I did a ProResHQ export using a custom export which goes through the QT engine. I'm on MC 2018.12.15. Here are screen grabs. I guess I'm not sure this app displays the metadata flag that tells how QT should interpret the video essence. I guess Full Range or Legal doesn't change the color matrix or primaries. I'm in an area where I know how to read a scope but don't know exactly what metadata types of information define full range vs. legal video essence is this the colr atom and or the gama atom? Or is it another atom? Also there is mention on Lift Gamma Gain about tagging files 1-1-1. I'm not versed in this aspect of file metadata. Here is what I read:

Sebastian Bodirsky said: ↑
I wonder if there is a downside to this metadata specification, or why else it is not common practice by all NLEs. But probably there is already a thread about this somewhere...
That metadata is supported for display by many post apps, but only editable in a few of them, hence the need for a metadata editing app like this.

Resolve allows setting that metadata on export, while NLEs like Premiere and FCPX default to tagging all SDR exports as 1-1-1. FCPX is at least internally color managed around 1-1-1, while Premiere Pro is just a hopeless mess since it doesn't color manage for 1-1-1 yet it tags outputs that way.

Jamie LeJeune, Apr 19, 2021
#9

Erik Lindahl

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Jamie LeJeune said: ↑
That metadata is supported for display by many post apps, but only editable in a few of them, hence the need for a metadata editing app like this.

Resolve allows setting that metadata on export, while NLEs like Premiere and FCPX default to tagging all SDR exports as 1-1-1. FCPX is at least internally color managed around 1-1-1, while Premiere Pro is just a hopeless mess since it doesn't color manage for 1-1-1 yet it tags outputs that way.
Premiere Pro is even worse than this.

- Material will always export as 1-1-1 in SDR
- Material with other tags than 1-1-1 will likely be converted to 1-1-1
- You can't affect how Premiere reads footage (i.e. force all SDR to be read as Rec 709 / Gamma 2.4).

So if you render files externally tagged with Rec 709 / Gamma 2.2, Rec 709 / Gamma 2.4 and Rec 709 / Gamma 2.6 they will all render differently with-in Premiere and be converted to a Rec 709 / Rec 709 (1-1-1) file. Files tagged with Rec 709 / Rec 709 are rendered as Rec 709 / Gamma 2.4.

The above behaviour seems unique to Premiere and AME thought. After Effects in a color managed workflow seems to assume Rec 709 / Gamma 2.4 and render out 1-1-1. It makes sense the color managed app disregards these tags…

Oh, I think since some versions back AVID respects these tags also.

Erik Lindahl, Apr 19, 2021
#10

Here are screen shots of my bars exports:

Friday, March 24, 2023

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Re: [Avid-L2] Quicklimes with wrong levels flags.

That's a great app. Simple and easy to use. Thanks for the link!

On Thu, Mar 23, 2023 at 10:34 PM Jef Huey <jlhueyc2@gmail.com> wrote:

This post on Lift Gamma Gain might be of interest.

https://liftgammagain.com/forum/index.php?threads/prores-quicktime-metadata-editor.15461/#post-169770

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Thursday, March 23, 2023

Re: [Avid-L2] Quicklimes with wrong levels flags.

This post on Lift Gamma Gain might be of interest.

https://liftgammagain.com/forum/index.php?threads/prores-quicktime-metadata-editor.15461/#post-169770

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Re: [Avid-L2] 23.976fps to 25fps

Our experience is that there are still a lot of projectors that have not been updated to allow frame rates beyond 24. Since this is a budget constrained project (which ones aren't?) we needed to go for the most reliable DCP.

Plus a couple of film festivals specified 24 fps.

Jef

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Re: [Avid-L2] 23.976fps to 25fps

Ehh - wait, forgot, there's no 25 in Interop. But unless there's a specific requirement for Interop DCP, I almost always author SMPTE.

On Thu, Mar 23, 2023 at 9:45 AM Mark Spano via groups.io <cutandcover=gmail.com@groups.io> wrote:

Hi Jef,

I'm curious - for what reason would you have needed to convert 25 to 24 for a DCP? 25 fps is in both the Interop and SMPTE DCP specs. I help run a screening room here in NY and we get both 24 and 25 fps DCPs all the time and project them without issue.

On Thu, Mar 23, 2023 at 9:39 AM Jef Huey <jlhueyc2@gmail.com> wrote:
[Edited Message Follows]

I recently completed a 25fps feature doc about a dancer. Lots of music, dialog, city sounds, etc. We had to make a 24fps conversion for a DCP. Very limited budget did not allow the preferred path of working from stems and pitching them. We also knew that none of the tools to keep the original speed by manipulating the video would be acceptable with all the dance scenes. So it had to be a slowdown.

We used the onboard pitch correction tool in Alchemist (the software version) to handle the job. We then let the director (a dancer herself) compare the audio with no pitch fix and the Alchemist's pitch correction of the full 5.1 mix. First, she was shocked by how much lower sounding the no pitch fix version sounded. And she was satisfied with the pitch fixed version. She has had several screenings in large well maintained theaters and says it sounds great.

So I guess I am saying that it is possible to process a full, complicated mix. But you must listen to the result prior to committing to it's use. And it helps to work with a post house with options on it tools and a helpful attitude. EDIT: It also may be the case that a slowdown works better than the inverse.

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Re: [Avid-L2] 23.976fps to 25fps

Hi Jef,

I'm curious - for what reason would you have needed to convert 25 to 24 for a DCP? 25 fps is in both the Interop and SMPTE DCP specs. I help run a screening room here in NY and we get both 24 and 25 fps DCPs all the time and project them without issue.

On Thu, Mar 23, 2023 at 9:39 AM Jef Huey <jlhueyc2@gmail.com> wrote:

[Edited Message Follows]

I recently completed a 25fps feature doc about a dancer. Lots of music, dialog, city sounds, etc. We had to make a 24fps conversion for a DCP. Very limited budget did not allow the preferred path of working from stems and pitching them. We also knew that none of the tools to keep the original speed by manipulating the video would be acceptable with all the dance scenes. So it had to be a slowdown.

We used the onboard pitch correction tool in Alchemist (the software version) to handle the job. We then let the director (a dancer herself) compare the audio with no pitch fix and the Alchemist's pitch correction of the full 5.1 mix. First, she was shocked by how much lower sounding the no pitch fix version sounded. And she was satisfied with the pitch fixed version. She has had several screenings in large well maintained theaters and says it sounds great.

So I guess I am saying that it is possible to process a full, complicated mix. But you must listen to the result prior to committing to it's use. And it helps to work with a post house with options on it tools and a helpful attitude. EDIT: It also may be the case that a slowdown works better than the inverse.

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Re: [Avid-L2] 23.976fps to 25fps

[Edited Message Follows]

I recently completed a 25fps feature doc about a dancer. Lots of music, dialog, city sounds, etc. We had to make a 24fps conversion for a DCP. Very limited budget did not allow the preferred path of working from stems and pitching them. We also knew that none of the tools to keep the original speed by manipulating the video would be acceptable with all the dance scenes. So it had to be a slowdown.

We used the onboard pitch correction tool in Alchemist (the software version) to handle the job. We then let the director (a dancer herself) compare the audio with no pitch fix and the Alchemist's pitch correction of the full 5.1 mix. First, she was shocked by how much lower sounding the no pitch fix version sounded. And she was satisfied with the pitch fixed version. She has had several screenings in large well maintained theaters and says it sounds great.

So I guess I am saying that it is possible to process a full, complicated mix. But you must listen to the result prior to committing to it's use. And it helps to work with a post house with options on it tools and a helpful attitude. EDIT: It also may be the case that a slowdown works better than the inverse.

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Re: [Avid-L2] 23.976fps to 25fps

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Wednesday, March 22, 2023

Re: [Avid-L2] 23.976fps to 25fps

I'll have a try at the software options you guys suggested!

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Re: [Avid-L2] 23.976fps to 25fps

My advice,

Tell them to trust you you know what's best.

(Then speed up)

Close to EVERYTHING is speeded up for 25, including all major blockbusters.

Or, tell them they have an option, pay way more. (That normally does the trick.)

Bouke / edit 'B

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On 22 Mar 2023, at 21:10, Pierre via groups.io <ph=cineaste.org@groups.io> wrote:

Thanks everyone,
I'm afraid speed up is not an option. Whilst it's for sure the best way to do it visually as each frame is untouched, it's a music documentary. And that's a big leap to take, even with re-harmonizing it. Not sure the band members would approuve. And there are 12 of them!

Re: [Avid-L2] 23.976fps to 25fps

Thanks everyone,
I'm afraid speed up is not an option. Whilst it's for sure the best way to do it visually as each frame is untouched, it's a music documentary. And that's a big leap to take, even with re-harmonizing it. Not sure the band members would approuve. And there are 12 of them!

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Re: [Avid-L2] 23.976fps to 25fps

Quite easy to do picture: speed it up. Get a playout (or mixdown) of the original 23.976p, link it in a 25p project, go into Source Settings and set the playback rate to Project (25fps). This will force a frame-by-frame playback of the source file, which is what you want.

Sound is a different beast. If you do nothing, everything will be pitched up. Which may or may not be acceptable. If the pitch-change is not acceptable, a pitch correction is required. Ideally, let the sound house handle such a pitch correction. Alternatively, ask for stems, so you can treat dialog, music and sfx separately (this is how all sound houses I know do this). The thing is, pitch shifting plugins have optimized algorithms for different types of sound, and if you're not careful, everything will sound quite terrible. Also, there are very few plugins out there that do a good job at it. The only one I ever use is Pitch'n'Time Pro (you need to the Pro version if you want to process 5.1 tracks, I think).

I have heard people having succes doing pitch conversions using Reaper, but I haven't tried this myself.

J

> On 21 Mar 2023, at 21:37, Pierre via groups.io <ph=cineaste.org@groups.io> wrote:
>
> It's been a while since I was asked to help a low-budget do a 23.976fps film conversion to 25fps. These days, what's best? Any software recommendation?
> Thanks!
> Pierre

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Tuesday, March 21, 2023

Re: [Avid-L2] 23.976fps to 25fps

sadly, tape output only - cheers, BG

On Tuesday, March 21, 2023 at 08:28:36 p.m. PDT, Tommy D. M. Pham via groups.io <forshurz=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:

I may be mistaken, but doesn't Symphony do this?

http://www.jobterburg.nl/Publications/UniversalMastering_v1.2.pdf

On Mar 21, 2023, at 1:47 PM, Mark Spano <cutandcover@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi Pierre,

Speed up is the best way, but it may have issues with audio pitch and run time for your client. Pitch can be slowed down with a competent audio engineer. If that works for you, it's no visual loss.

Next best that I've used is the software Grass Valley Alchemist PhC+ with motion compensation and cut detection. IFyou have access. It's so pricey it's ridiculous to venture down that road, but if you can, it's nearly miraculous.

Beyond that, Resolve's Optical Flow at Best is good, and sometimes, its AI Speed Warp is good. But these are prone to artifacts and MUST be done on a shot by shot basis.

I can't really recommend anything else. I wish I knew of others but this is the extent of my knowledge set.

On Tue, Mar 21, 2023 at 4:38 PM Pierre via groups.io <ph=cineaste.org@groups.io> wrote:
It's been a while since I was asked to help a low-budget do a 23.976fps film conversion to 25fps. These days, what's best? Any software recommendation?
Thanks!
Pierre

Re: [Avid-L2] 23.976fps to 25fps

I may be mistaken, but doesn't Symphony do this?

http://www.jobterburg.nl/Publications/UniversalMastering_v1.2.pdf

On Mar 21, 2023, at 1:47 PM, Mark Spano <cutandcover@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi Pierre,

Speed up is the best way, but it may have issues with audio pitch and run time for your client. Pitch can be slowed down with a competent audio engineer. If that works for you, it's no visual loss.

Next best that I've used is the software Grass Valley Alchemist PhC+ with motion compensation and cut detection. IFyou have access. It's so pricey it's ridiculous to venture down that road, but if you can, it's nearly miraculous.

Beyond that, Resolve's Optical Flow at Best is good, and sometimes, its AI Speed Warp is good. But these are prone to artifacts and MUST be done on a shot by shot basis.

I can't really recommend anything else. I wish I knew of others but this is the extent of my knowledge set.

On Tue, Mar 21, 2023 at 4:38 PM Pierre via groups.io <ph=cineaste.org@groups.io> wrote:
It's been a while since I was asked to help a low-budget do a 23.976fps film conversion to 25fps. These days, what's best? Any software recommendation?
Thanks!
Pierre

Re: [Avid-L2] Getting a Nexis back under support

Thank you.

I'm guessing Tom is with Avid? Or is this a reseller?

Jay

On Mar 21, 2023, at 8:01 PM, Tim Gross via groups.io <tgross=asgllc.com@groups.io> wrote:

Call Tom 415-405-5320

From: Avid-L2@groups.io <Avid-L2@groups.io> on behalf of Jay Mahavier via groups.io<jay_mahavier=icloud.com@groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2023 5:14 PM
To: Avid-L2@groups.io <Avid-L2@groups.io>
Subject: [Avid-L2] Getting a Nexis back under support

Does anyone know who I contact at Avid to talk to about getting an out of support Nexis back under support?

Thanks,
Jay

Re: [Avid-L2] Getting a Nexis back under support

Call Tom 415-405-5320

From: Avid-L2@groups.io <Avid-L2@groups.io> on behalf of Jay Mahavier via groups.io <jay_mahavier=icloud.com@groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2023 5:14 PM
To: Avid-L2@groups.io <Avid-L2@groups.io>
Subject: [Avid-L2] Getting a Nexis back under support

Does anyone know who I contact at Avid to talk to about getting an out of support Nexis back under support?

Thanks,
Jay

[Avid-L2] Getting a Nexis back under support

Does anyone know who I contact at Avid to talk to about getting an out of support Nexis back under support?

Thanks,
Jay

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Re: [Avid-L2] Quicklimes with wrong levels flags.

Thanks Marianna for all the great info.

As you surmised, upgrade is not possible at this time, till they upgrade their infrastructure (Storage and CPUs). It's on the list, but not yet.

I am sorry I went dark on this thread for a couple days, been doing further testing.

The real problem is that there is some finger pointing happening between post and color houses.

While we are producing files with the correct data levels, it's the flags that are at issue.

We all know that it is a simple toggle in Resolve, Nucoda and even coming back into AVID (if you AMA first) to correct the levels flags in the source file, but "technically" old media composer is sending a file that can cause confusion.

Yes, DPX are slow on old Media Composer, and really huge when you start sending files between facilities.

On Media Composer 8.8.5 I have also noticed that levels shift on Aja i/o when switching between RGB 709 and YCbCr 709, in HD projects. I don't have the capability to check levels in UHD on these systems. I realize that the i/o appliance can also be a possible variable. I recall that back in the day when I was using this version of software at a house that had both old Nitris i/o and newer Avid branded Blackmagic Design i/o that we had several strange bugs with video and audio sync, depending on which i/o the system used.

There is also a strange relationship between the export settings on this version of Media Composer, and the Custom module. I have seen that the Media Composer settings can be affected by the last thing you set in the "custom" settings with QuickTime. For example, if the last export you did with QuickTime had a particular aspect/size or gamma setting, even though you have other saved settings with different values, you have to check the "custom" panel, as it can "hold on to" settings from other exports. It can also keep incongruous settings (e.g. making a new setting with UHD raster, but if Size in the custom panel last used 1080p, you will get a file 1080p in size). The only truly safe settings are the ones where you use the "current" setting. This Custom module looks like it's just a call to the QuickTime settings when at system level.

The basic point that this all boils down to is that on older versions of Media Composer, the box "thinks" only in Legal Range. While you can ingest full range footage (flat Log for example) Media Composer "thinks" it's legal levels. Therefore when you export the need is to tell Media Composer not to change the levels, and then remove the flag in the file that says "Hey, this file has legal levels!".

I will check out the cinextoos, looks promising.

(Side note to Bouke, I appreciate all your feedback as well.)

Dave Hogan,

Burbank, CA

On Mar 20, 2023, at 8:30 AM, Marianna <marianna.montague@avid.com> wrote:

Hi Dave

Apologies as I meant to send this Friday……..

I ran this by Robert who works in our PM team and was a long time user before joining Avid.

He had a few suggestions.

The first suggestion is to upgrade, but that's probably not likely to happen. ProRes HQ and ProRes 4:4:4:4, are treated as full range in newer MC versions and so are the DNxHR codecs.     DPX is painfully slow on older versions of MC so I get why they want to export a wrapped file. If the file is going to color, they can flag it in color without having to re-render. Resolve does this with a simple check box.

Secondly, there are other tools similar to QT Change that handle this for the non-technical person, but they are not free. cineXtools Meta is one of them that I trust with the metadata of a file.  https://cinextools.com You might recognize some of the guys in the testimonial videos down at the bottom. 😊

There is in fact a way to export without video levels in older MC… this may help: https://community.avid.com/forums/t/196218.aspx   and.   https://wikis.utexas.edu/display/comm/AVID+-+Exporting+and+protecting+your+luminance+levels

I would suggest is for you to export ProRes HQ or ProRes 4:4:4:4. Many applications (including Resolve) had an issue with the ProRes spec in treating anything below HQ as legal range.

Hope that helps but if not let me know and I can deep drill it further.

Marianna

Marianna Montague
Sr. Director, Customer Experience
t +1 (978) 640-5215   |  m +1 (813) 493-6800
marianna.montague@avid.com

Avid | Remote - Florida
United States Of America
www.avid.com

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Re: [Avid-L2] 23.976fps to 25fps

Hi Pierre,

Speed up is the best way, but it may have issues with audio pitch and run time for your client. Pitch can be slowed down with a competent audio engineer. If that works for you, it's no visual loss.

Next best that I've used is the software Grass Valley Alchemist PhC+ with motion compensation and cut detection. IFyou have access. It's so pricey it's ridiculous to venture down that road, but if you can, it's nearly miraculous.

Beyond that, Resolve's Optical Flow at Best is good, and sometimes, its AI Speed Warp is good. But these are prone to artifacts and MUST be done on a shot by shot basis.

I can't really recommend anything else. I wish I knew of others but this is the extent of my knowledge set.

On Tue, Mar 21, 2023 at 4:38 PM Pierre via groups.io <ph=cineaste.org@groups.io> wrote:

It's been a while since I was asked to help a low-budget do a 23.976fps film conversion to 25fps. These days, what's best? Any software recommendation?
Thanks!
Pierre

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[Avid-L2] 23.976fps to 25fps

It's been a while since I was asked to help a low-budget do a 23.976fps film conversion to 25fps. These days, what's best? Any software recommendation?
Thanks!
Pierre

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Re: [Avid-L2] Quicklimes with wrong levels flags.

Here's what I go by, and this is my opinion ONLY and should not be taken as gospel:

ProRes (all flavors) as an acquisition format can have any levels. Expect it.

ProRes (all flavors) as a delivery format should be legal. Most applications I use (mainly Resolve) respect this and output accordingly (if you don't touch the automatic controls).

This is ONLY true in the 709 world. Rec2020 specs many times ask specifically for full data levels.

Go forth and make what you will.

On Tue, Mar 21, 2023 at 2:19 PM bouke <bouke@editb.nl> wrote:

Can we keep this discussion 'clean'?

From what we've learned, levels as hard coded into files are one thing.
Then there is metadata on how to interpret the values.

For 'us', we want to access the 'raw' data, as it is. (Sometimes, other times we do not have time to get bothered with that, we want it 'as intended'.)

What we want for sure is an answer to:
What the fuck am I looking at????
(Pardon my French…)

Bouke / edit 'B

videotoolshed.com
Van Oldenbarneveltstraat 33
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+31 6 21817248
If you want to send me large files, please use:
https://videotoolshed.wetransfer.com/

On 21 Mar 2023, at 19:11, Gowanus Canal <gowanuscanalstinks@gmail.com> wrote:

What has been discussed in the Resolve forum is that ProRes 422 and HQ by default are video levels. And some applications assumes it is video levels (Adobe Premiere). Setting it to data levels can cause issues.

DQS

On Mar 21, 2023, at 1:49 PM, John Moore <bigfish@pacbell.net> wrote:

One very basic question I would like to know is what the expected level is for a ProResHQ file? As I mentioned earlier in this thread I recall discussions on the L2 and IIRC the consensus was a ProResHQ file should be assumed to be legal level but of course you should always double check. Earlier in this thread Marianna mentioned that form the Avid engineer Avid assumes both ProResHQ and ProRes 444 to be full range. Is there an actual spec set by Smpte, EBU or the International Committee that F's with John Moore's head on a regular basis?

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Re: [Avid-L2] Quicklimes with wrong levels flags.

Can we keep this discussion 'clean'?

From what we've learned, levels as hard coded into files are one thing.

Then there is metadata on how to interpret the values.

For 'us', we want to access the 'raw' data, as it is. (Sometimes, other times we do not have time to get bothered with that, we want it 'as intended'.)

What we want for sure is an answer to:

What the fuck am I looking at????

(Pardon my French…)

Bouke / edit 'B

videotoolshed.com
Van Oldenbarneveltstraat 33
6512 AS Nijmegen, the Netherlands
+31 6 21817248
If you want to send me large files, please use:
https://videotoolshed.wetransfer.com/

On 21 Mar 2023, at 19:11, Gowanus Canal <gowanuscanalstinks@gmail.com> wrote:

What has been discussed in the Resolve forum is that ProRes 422 and HQ by default are video levels. And some applications assumes it is video levels (Adobe Premiere). Setting it to data levels can cause issues.

DQS

On Mar 21, 2023, at 1:49 PM, John Moore <bigfish@pacbell.net> wrote:

One very basic question I would like to know is what the expected level is for a ProResHQ file? As I mentioned earlier in this thread I recall discussions on the L2 and IIRC the consensus was a ProResHQ file should be assumed to be legal level but of course you should always double check. Earlier in this thread Marianna mentioned that form the Avid engineer Avid assumes both ProResHQ and ProRes 444 to be full range. Is there an actual spec set by Smpte, EBU or the International Committee that F's with John Moore's head on a regular basis?

Re: [Avid-L2] Quicklimes with wrong levels flags.

What has been discussed in the Resolve forum is that ProRes 422 and HQ by default are video levels. And some applications assumes it is video levels (Adobe Premiere). Setting it to data levels can cause issues.

DQS

On Mar 21, 2023, at 1:49 PM, John Moore <bigfish@pacbell.net> wrote:

One very basic question I would like to know is what the expected level is for a ProResHQ file? As I mentioned earlier in this thread I recall discussions on the L2 and IIRC the consensus was a ProResHQ file should be assumed to be legal level but of course you should always double check. Earlier in this thread Marianna mentioned that form the Avid engineer Avid assumes both ProResHQ and ProRes 444 to be full range. Is there an actual spec set by Smpte, EBU or the International Committee that F's with John Moore's head on a regular basis?

Re: [Avid-L2] Quicklimes with wrong levels flags.

Do NOT expect an answer from me. Let an actual engineer answer this, I'm only mortal.

Do note:

Encoders 'encode', and the QT (the file format, NOT the QT framework that is dead) can add metadata on how to interpret the file.

AVfoundation 'should' honour that, but in our world, software 'should' be able to override all and access the 'pure' data.

But it seems to be very unclear when what is happening, as 'everyone' wants all stuff to be 'initiative', 'simple', 'just make it do what I want to do'.

For your old eyes, screw anyone / everything, bring in stuff 'as it is' (if possible, but AMA is a step closer) and trust your eyes, grade on that if in doubt.

Bouke / edit 'B

videotoolshed.com
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On 21 Mar 2023, at 18:49, John Moore <bigfish@pacbell.net> wrote:

One very basic question I would like to know is what the expected level is for a ProResHQ file? As I mentioned earlier in this thread I recall discussions on the L2 and IIRC the consensus was a ProResHQ file should be assumed to be legal level but of course you should always double check. Earlier in this thread Marianna mentioned that form the Avid engineer Avid assumes both ProResHQ and ProRes 444 to be full range. Is there an actual spec set by Smpte, EBU or the International Committee that F's with John Moore's head on a regular basis?

Re: [Avid-L2] Quicklimes with wrong levels flags.

One very basic question I would like to know is what the expected level is for a ProResHQ file? As I mentioned earlier in this thread I recall discussions on the L2 and IIRC the consensus was a ProResHQ file should be assumed to be legal level but of course you should always double check. Earlier in this thread Marianna mentioned that form the Avid engineer Avid assumes both ProResHQ and ProRes 444 to be full range. Is there an actual spec set by Smpte, EBU or the International Committee that F's with John Moore's head on a regular basis?

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Re: [Avid-L2] Quicklimes with wrong levels flags.

It baked in the conversion _unless_ you were exporting Same As Source or QT Ref.

On 17 Mar 2023, at 10:11, John Moore <bigfish@pacbell.net> wrote:

I've always battled whether Avid actually scales the video essence or just sets a flag depending on that choice.

Re: [Avid-L2] Quicklimes with wrong levels flags.

Exactly!! JB

On Mar 21, 2023, at 1:50 AM, TrevorA <groups.io@siempre.free-online.co.uk> wrote:

Maybe giving up Bars+Tone wasn't such a great idea?

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Re: [Avid-L2] Quicklimes with wrong levels flags.

Bouke

Definitely will keep you and the L2 in the loop if I find out anything else.

😊

Marianna

Marianna Montague
Sr. Director, Customer Experience
t +1 (978) 640-5215 | m +1 (813) 493-6800
marianna.montague@avid.com

Avid | Remote - Florida
United States Of America

www.avid.com

Monday, March 20, 2023

Re: [Avid-L2] Quicklimes with wrong levels flags.

Maybe giving up Bars+Tone wasn't such a great idea?

Cinextools is great (especially for a better insert edit export experience), are generous with trials + you can pay by the hour I think.

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Re: [Avid-L2] Quicklimes with wrong levels flags.

Let 'somethings' be clear:

(I do NOT think that I know it all!)

Metadata flags have nothing to do with actual data.

If Netflix 'assumes' specific metadata flags to be set correct to interpret data, they 'might' be doing something to help you, but they might as well fuck you.

Let's assume that if the file levels are OK, it 'SHOULD' be ok.

I can help setting the metadata 'correct' But I cannot mind read.

QT and all it's magic to have 'any. Video display right on 'any' device is NOT something Netflix should ask for.

Netflix (Like any. Broadcaster does) should ask for something 'to spec X', not, made with 'intentionally made for this, please correct for device Y'

The world is quite bigger than Apple's ecosystem.

Do I know what I'm talking about?

No,

Am I right?

(Probably not.)

Bouke / edit 'B

videotoolshed.com
Van Oldenbarneveltstraat 33
6512 AS Nijmegen, the Netherlands
+31 6 21817248
If you want to send me large files, please use:
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On 20 Mar 2023, at 18:10, John Moore <bigfish@pacbell.net> wrote:

Historically I've been told that the basic assumption of a ProResHQ file was that it was legal level. I don't know if there is an official specification and it certainly can be either legal or full range in my experience. I know in Resolve V 17 and earlier when exporting ProRes they suggest setting the export to "auto" as opposed to dictating legal or full range. I'm not much of a Resolve user but I think that suggestion had to do with how the files get interpreted down the line which to me implies some sort of Metadata Flag. Netflix delivery in the past requested legal level ProResHQ files for my projects. Herding Cats come to mind.

Re: [Avid-L2] Quicklimes with wrong levels flags.

Historically I've been told that the basic assumption of a ProResHQ file was that it was legal level. I don't know if there is an official specification and it certainly can be either legal or full range in my experience. I know in Resolve V 17 and earlier when exporting ProRes they suggest setting the export to "auto" as opposed to dictating legal or full range. I'm not much of a Resolve user but I think that suggestion had to do with how the files get interpreted down the line which to me implies some sort of Metadata Flag. Netflix delivery in the past requested legal level ProResHQ files for my projects. Herding Cats come to mind.

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Re: [Avid-L2] Quicklimes with wrong levels flags.

Hi Marianna,

Can you keep me in the loop / CC?

It this is still an issue, I can alter QT change.

It's not hard, but, as said, I do not want to add options for just a very few users.

(It is too stupid for words, if the colr atom has the second value set to 0x02, set the gama atom to 'something else', and be done with it…)

Bouke / edit 'B

videotoolshed.com
Van Oldenbarneveltstraat 33
6512 AS Nijmegen, the Netherlands
+31 6 21817248
If you want to send me large files, please use:
https://videotoolshed.wetransfer.com/

On 20 Mar 2023, at 16:30, Marianna <marianna.montague@avid.com> wrote:

Hi Dave

Apologies as I meant to send this Friday……..

I ran this by Robert who works in our PM team and was a long time user before joining Avid.

He had a few suggestions.

The first suggestion is to upgrade, but that's probably not likely to happen. ProRes HQ and ProRes 4:4:4:4, are treated as full range in newer MC versions and so are the DNxHR codecs.     DPX is painfully slow on older versions of MC so I get why they want to export a wrapped file. If the file is going to color, they can flag it in color without having to re-render. Resolve does this with a simple check box.

Secondly, there are other tools similar to QT Change that handle this for the non-technical person, but they are not free. cineXtools Meta is one of them that I trust with the metadata of a file.  https://cinextools.com You might recognize some of the guys in the testimonial videos down at the bottom. 😊

There is in fact a way to export without video levels in older MC… this may help:  https://community.avid.com/forums/t/196218.aspx   and.   https://wikis.utexas.edu/display/comm/AVID+-+Exporting+and+protecting+your+luminance+levels

I would suggest is for you to export ProRes HQ or ProRes 4:4:4:4. Many applications (including Resolve) had an issue with the ProRes spec in treating anything below HQ as legal range.

Hope that helps but if not let me know and I can deep drill it further.

Marianna

Marianna Montague
Sr. Director, Customer Experience
t +1 (978) 640-5215   |  m +1 (813) 493-6800
marianna.montague@avid.com

Avid | Remote - Florida
United States Of America
www.avid.com

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