Saturday, July 4, 2015

[Avid-L2] Re: M-Disc - 100GB Optical Disc with a 1,000 Year Shelf Life

 

Don't need software to access my LTOs LTFS has taken care of that. Just a driver.
Tape mounts and reads just like a drive.
But granted most archived content will have such a low value it won't justify the recovery attempt. And with out comprehensive cataloging who could find anything anyway.

Pat from his mobile.

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Posted by: Pat Horridge <pat@horridge.org.uk>
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Friday, July 3, 2015

Re: [Avid-L2] M-Disc - 100GB Optical Disc with a 1,000 Year Shelf Life

 

Actually I think screens are going to be much smaller by 2115 as dramatic overpopulation reduces the sizes of homes and rooms not to mention the world pixel shortage of 2100.

On 4 Jul 2015, at 10:32 am, blafarm@yahoo.com [Avid-L2] <Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 

>Last thought though, I do like the idea of Terry's great grandchildren looking at their 64K tv ...


Actually, I think Terry's great grandchildren WILL be able to discern the quality of 64k video.  Because, in 100 years, the microchip screen will be mounted inside your eye directly in front of your iris -- thereby negating Terry's often repeated (but accurate) viewing distance argument against 4k.

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Posted by: "Mikeparsons.tv" <mikeparsons.tv@gmail.com>
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Re: [Avid-L2] M-Disc - 100GB Optical Disc with a 1,000 Year Shelf Life

 

>Last thought though, I do like the idea of Terry's great grandchildren looking at their 64K tv ...


Actually, I think Terry's great grandchildren WILL be able to discern the quality of 64k video.  Because, in 100 years, the microchip screen will be mounted inside your eye directly in front of your iris -- thereby negating Terry's often repeated (but accurate) viewing distance argument against 4k.

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Posted by: blafarm@yahoo.com
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this is the Avid-L2

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Re: [Avid-L2] M-Disc - 100GB Optical Disc with a 1,000 Year Shelf Life

 

The bigger question is;
lets assume you CAN successfully restore the archive of your vital personal project in 10 years... for an idea of how that will feel lets consider an archive from 2005.

We open the archive and get at all the elements.
Cool I have all my Elastic Reality and Matador setups and the whole Avid DS project. I'll just drop this into the mac...

Now what.

That's OK i have all the masters and superless masters in high quality. Hmm wont open. Lets see why - ah now I remember that was the year we used the Microcosm codec amazing lossless 64 bit codec totally future proof and a very efficient way of archiving.

I'll just go grab it. Phew piece of luck Digital Anarchy still exists but cant seem to find a download link. Oh lucky I saved the codec installer in the archive - damn I'm smart. Whats this it won't run in Yosemite?

Long archiving of anything but the master and maybe superless elements is a waste of time. Codecs aside the software to use any setup from just 10 years ago is unlikely to be there, 100 years? Not a chance. Consider the technology of 1915 to now.

As for need I seriously hope mankind has found a better pastime than watching TV by 2115, but lets pretend we haven't.

Whats needed is a universal archival format for sound and images. DPX is what we do for images now, and audio is aiff on LTO6 but short of monochrome separation negatives I have no better ideas.

My average flame job comes out at 220gig these days. Rushes for the KFC job for Myanmar which was the last job i did ran over 1TB. I do like the idea of masters and superless subs per project on a dvd in a nice slick on a shelf in my office though, it appeals to the collector in me. Might get one master a disk once we're shipping 8K.

Last thought though, I do like the idea of Terry's great grandchildren looking at their 64K tv and watching a HD job great grandad cut and being stunned at the quality of the images - 'wow' they say, 'you cant tell the difference from great grandads videos and things shot yesterday'.   :)

Mike

On 7/4/15 8:46 AM, bigfish@pacbell.net [Avid-L2] wrote:
 

Well I for one hope that film/media students for the next several centuries will have to study my pioneering work on the 3D swimsuit spectacular back in the mid 80's.  Perhaps scientists in the future can actually figure out how that Clam bikini was held on.  I humbly hope to be known as the "Fish Wipe Master" forget that silly Ken Burns effect a Trout Wipe spans the great expanse of time IMHO.  They may forget what the 300 switcher was but the Fish Wipes it produced will live to swim through pictures long into the future.  So far I've yet to see a digital archive technology worthy of my Fish Wipe Library, but I can always dream can't I?

See what happens when I have to do these darn ProResHQ mixdowns in Avid.  Too much idle hands time.  ;-)



---In avid-l2@yahoogroups.com, <albion@...> wrote :

More generally rhetorical. I just cleaned through 20 years of archival material (was very satisfying). I have a digital archive of most masters, but really I could cull that down to 10% or less if I was as ruthless as I am when I cut for clients.

In thinking about how many major features are made each year (which along with independents is only accelerating), I wonder sometimes how films like Citizen Kane or North By Northwest will fare 50, 100, or 500 years from now. Then extrapolate to almost everything else any of us on this list work on.


On Jul 3, 2015, at 5:34 PM, blafarm@... [Avid-L2] <Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

> What percentage of what you are working on will need to be archived past 10 years?


Not sure this question is directed at me or the members of List.
For me and the spot/promotional work I cut, that number is probably zero.  
For my own projects 'yes' -- I'd like to be able to look back.
But, sadly, the majority of my paid work has a naturally limited shelf life.
That's really why I wrote in my M-DISC piece that I only needed 5-10 years. 




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Posted by: Mike Parsons <mikeparsons.tv@gmail.com>
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Re: [Avid-L2] M-Disc - 100GB Optical Disc with a 1,000 Year Shelf Life

 

Well I for one hope that film/media students for the next several centuries will have to study my pioneering work on the 3D swimsuit spectacular back in the mid 80's.  Perhaps scientists in the future can actually figure out how that Clam bikini was held on.  I humbly hope to be known as the "Fish Wipe Master" forget that silly Ken Burns effect a Trout Wipe spans the great expanse of time IMHO.  They may forget what the 300 switcher was but the Fish Wipes it produced will live to swim through pictures long into the future.  So far I've yet to see a digital archive technology worthy of my Fish Wipe Library, but I can always dream can't I?

See what happens when I have to do these darn ProResHQ mixdowns in Avid.  Too much idle hands time.  ;-)



---In avid-l2@yahoogroups.com, <albion@...> wrote :

More generally rhetorical. I just cleaned through 20 years of archival material (was very satisfying). I have a digital archive of most masters, but really I could cull that down to 10% or less if I was as ruthless as I am when I cut for clients.

In thinking about how many major features are made each year (which along with independents is only accelerating), I wonder sometimes how films like Citizen Kane or North By Northwest will fare 50, 100, or 500 years from now. Then extrapolate to almost everything else any of us on this list work on.


On Jul 3, 2015, at 5:34 PM, blafarm@... [Avid-L2] <Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

> What percentage of what you are working on will need to be archived past 10 years?


Not sure this question is directed at me or the members of List.
For me and the spot/promotional work I cut, that number is probably zero.  
For my own projects 'yes' -- I'd like to be able to look back.
But, sadly, the majority of my paid work has a naturally limited shelf life.
That's really why I wrote in my M-DISC piece that I only needed 5-10 years. 



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Posted by: bigfish@pacbell.net
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this is the Avid-L2

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Re: [Avid-L2] M-Disc - 100GB Optical Disc with a 1,000 Year Shelf Life

 

More generally rhetorical. I just cleaned through 20 years of archival material (was very satisfying). I have a digital archive of most masters, but really I could cull that down to 10% or less if I was as ruthless as I am when I cut for clients.

In thinking about how many major features are made each year (which along with independents is only accelerating), I wonder sometimes how films like Citizen Kane or North By Northwest will fare 50, 100, or 500 years from now. Then extrapolate to almost everything else any of us on this list work on.


On Jul 3, 2015, at 5:34 PM, blafarm@yahoo.com [Avid-L2] <Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

> What percentage of what you are working on will need to be archived past 10 years?


Not sure this question is directed at me or the members of List.
For me and the spot/promotional work I cut, that number is probably zero.  
For my own projects 'yes' -- I'd like to be able to look back.
But, sadly, the majority of my paid work has a naturally limited shelf life.
That's really why I wrote in my M-DISC piece that I only needed 5-10 years. 



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Posted by: James Culbertson <albion@speakeasy.net>
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this is the Avid-L2

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Re: [Avid-L2] M-Disc - 100GB Optical Disc with a 1,000 Year Shelf Life

 

> What percentage of what you are working on will need to be archived past 10 years?


Not sure this question is directed at me or the members of List.
For me and the spot/promotional work I cut, that number is probably zero.  
For my own projects 'yes' -- I'd like to be able to look back.
But, sadly, the majority of my paid work has a naturally limited shelf life.
That's really why I wrote in my M-DISC piece that I only needed 5-10 years. 

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Posted by: blafarm@yahoo.com
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this is the Avid-L2

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Re: [Avid-L2] M-Disc - 100GB Optical Disc with a 1,000 Year Shelf Life

 

What percentage of what you are working on will need to be archived past 10 years?


On Jul 3, 2015, at 4:31 PM, blafarm@yahoo.com [Avid-L2] <Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

>there are no optical disks or lto drives in my house; tis all in the cloud. 


It takes a fair amount of trust to follow that kind of archival strategy.  Especially with the data of the most technically sophisticated companies and governments in the world being hacked or ransomed on a daily basis.  
Notwithstanding, the cloud is not a particularly practical place to upload or download the hundreds of gigabytes and terabytes we all deal with in this industry.

And circling back to the 100-year question -- all one has to do is consider number of optical drives versus LTO drives that have been sold to-date.   If something like Ebay even exists in 100-years, there will easily be 10,000 used optical drives for every LTO drive being sold.  

More importantly, the software that had been used to create that LTO tape -- will be long gone.  And if you are lucky enough to still own a copy of that software, you'll have to run it on a computer that is under glass at the Smithsonian.

M-DISCs are admittedly limited in capacity and expensive per GB compared  LTO, but they don't require any software or middleware, and they'll probably be way more readable than wire recordings and wax cylinders are today.


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Posted by: James Culbertson <albion@speakeasy.net>
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Re: [Avid-L2] Re: M-Disc - 100GB Optical Disc with a 1,000 Year Shelf Life

 

>there are no optical disks or lto drives in my house; tis all in the cloud. 


It takes a fair amount of trust to follow that kind of archival strategy.  Especially with the data of the most technically sophisticated companies and governments in the world being hacked or ransomed on a daily basis.  
Notwithstanding, the cloud is not a particularly practical place to upload or download the hundreds of gigabytes and terabytes we all deal with in this industry.

And circling back to the 100-year question -- all one has to do is consider number of optical drives versus LTO drives that have been sold to-date.   If something like Ebay even exists in 100-years, there will easily be 10,000 used optical drives for every LTO drive being sold.  

More importantly, the software that had been used to create that LTO tape -- will be long gone.  And if you are lucky enough to still own a copy of that software, you'll have to run it on a computer that is under glass at the Smithsonian.

M-DISCs are admittedly limited in capacity and expensive per GB compared  LTO, but they don't require any software or middleware, and they'll probably be way more readable than wire recordings and wax cylinders are today.

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Posted by: blafarm@yahoo.com
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this is the Avid-L2

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Re: [Avid-L2] New wording in Avid 8.4 Export window?

 

Personally id like to see aces device transforms as the default everywhere but it's almost like outside of done film projects aces just isn't going to happen.

Mike

On 4 Jul 2015, at 1:50 am, Andi Meek kwikpasta@hotmail.com [Avid-L2] <Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 

Agreed John, I find it more confusing now.  Maybe it's because of the introduction of more colour spaces in to the system?  I believe 2020 is now an option?  I guess maybe it's more contextual now, depending on the colour space of the project rather than before when we just had two options?

Andi




To: avid-l2@yahoogroups.com
From: Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com
Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2015 18:01:52 +0000
Subject: [Avid-L2] New wording in Avid 8.4 Export window?

 
Just saw a posting about the new terminology in the Avid 8.4 Export window.  Instead of RGB radio button on top of 601/709 radio button it is now "Keep as legal" radio button on top of "Scale from legal to full range" radio button.  Perhaps it's just me but this wording is less precise than the older names.  Legal can change for different deliveries although I take it to mean 601/709 in this context.  Full range is okay but is that really a more universal term than RGB?  Perhaps it is more so in the graphics world just not so much in mine.
My bigger complaint is it seems they have reversed the functions of the radio buttons when I compare to my Ver. 6.5.x SNDX export window.  The old top button was for RGB export, a.k.a. "Full Range".  Now the new top button is "Keep as Legal", a.k.a. 601/709.  That means the functions have reversed in position right?
When they changed the import wording for dealing with square vs. non square graphic import the actual functions remained in the same radio button positions top to bottom.  Am I misinterpreting the post I saw?  Sure seems like changing the actual function relative to the original radio button positions is unnecessarily confusing?  John Moore
Barking Trout Productions
Studio City, CA
bigfish@pacbell.net

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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Posted by: "Mikeparsons.tv" <mikeparsons.tv@gmail.com>
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RE: [Avid-L2] New wording in Avid 8.4 Export window?

 

I hadn't thought of the 20/20 color space.  Regardless of the naming convention it seems to me if I'm use to checking the top box to export an RGB file I now have to check the bottom box to accomplish the same thing in ver. 8.4.  Am I correct in this or am I misunderstanding the new export dialogue functions.  For consistency of the interface the same function should be happening in the same position it always did in my opinion.



---In avid-l2@yahoogroups.com, <kwikpasta@...> wrote :

Agreed John, I find it more confusing now.  Maybe it's because of the introduction of more colour spaces in to the system?  I believe 2020 is now an option?  I guess maybe it's more contextual now, depending on the colour space of the project rather than before when we just had two options?

Andi




To: avid-l2@yahoogroups.com
From: Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com
Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2015 18:01:52 +0000
Subject: [Avid-L2] New wording in Avid 8.4 Export window?

 
Just saw a posting about the new terminology in the Avid 8.4 Export window.  Instead of RGB radio button on top of 601/709 radio button it is now "Keep as legal" radio button on top of "Scale from legal to full range" radio button.  Perhaps it's just me but this wording is less precise than the older names.  Legal can change for different deliveries although I take it to mean 601/709 in this context.  Full range is okay but is that really a more universal term than RGB?  Perhaps it is more so in the graphics world just not so much in mine.
My bigger complaint is it seems they have reversed the functions of the radio buttons when I compare to my Ver. 6.5.x SNDX export window.  The old top button was for RGB export, a.k.a. "Full Range".  Now the new top button is "Keep as Legal", a.k.a. 601/709.  That means the functions have reversed in position right?
When they changed the import wording for dealing with square vs. non square graphic import the actual functions remained in the same radio button positions top to bottom.  Am I misinterpreting the post I saw?  Sure seems like changing the actual function relative to the original radio button positions is unnecessarily confusing?  John Moore
Barking Trout Productions
Studio City, CA
bigfish@...

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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Posted by: bigfish@pacbell.net
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this is the Avid-L2

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RE: [Avid-L2] New wording in Avid 8.4 Export window?

 

Agreed John, I find it more confusing now.  Maybe it's because of the introduction of more colour spaces in to the system?  I believe 2020 is now an option?  I guess maybe it's more contextual now, depending on the colour space of the project rather than before when we just had two options?

Andi




To: avid-l2@yahoogroups.com
From: Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com
Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2015 18:01:52 +0000
Subject: [Avid-L2] New wording in Avid 8.4 Export window?

 
Just saw a posting about the new terminology in the Avid 8.4 Export window.  Instead of RGB radio button on top of 601/709 radio button it is now "Keep as legal" radio button on top of "Scale from legal to full range" radio button.  Perhaps it's just me but this wording is less precise than the older names.  Legal can change for different deliveries although I take it to mean 601/709 in this context.  Full range is okay but is that really a more universal term than RGB?  Perhaps it is more so in the graphics world just not so much in mine.
My bigger complaint is it seems they have reversed the functions of the radio buttons when I compare to my Ver. 6.5.x SNDX export window.  The old top button was for RGB export, a.k.a. "Full Range".  Now the new top button is "Keep as Legal", a.k.a. 601/709.  That means the functions have reversed in position right?
When they changed the import wording for dealing with square vs. non square graphic import the actual functions remained in the same radio button positions top to bottom.  Am I misinterpreting the post I saw?  Sure seems like changing the actual function relative to the original radio button positions is unnecessarily confusing?  John Moore
Barking Trout Productions
Studio City, CA
bigfish@pacbell.net

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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Posted by: Andi Meek <kwikpasta@hotmail.com>
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this is the Avid-L2

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