Saturday, July 27, 2013

Re: [Avid-L2] Re: "What are you grading this week 2013?", survey results.

 


On Jul 27, 2013, at 10:46 PM, johnrobmoore wrote:

> The digital delivery I did for NBC last December they accepted ProRes. They wanted it delivered through a dub house nearby in Hollywood because they had a distribution pipeline already set up with them. Funny because and extra 15 minutes of driving into the valley and we could have hand delivered to NBC/Universal lot. Sometimes it's not worth trying to be logical when dealing with corporate infrastructure. ;-)

I say:

I can only speak to what I deal with every day. I'm dealing with in-house material. Material from out-of-house could vary tremendously, as you've experienced. It also may be a difference between us in NY and you in California. I'm in News; you are more into Entertainment. There's no way to know all the specifics.

Dennis Degan, Video Editor-Consultant-Knowledge Bank
NBC Today Show, New York

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Re: [Avid-L2] "What are you grading this week 2013?", survey results.

I agree with most everything you say here, and will just add where I can.

Apple will not allow you to create ProRes on a PC. But Drastic will.

http://drastic.tv/index.php?option=com_content&view=featured&Itemid=80

We added this to the only PC we have in house (our Scratch system) and it's
pretty fantastic. We even helped get it tweaked so that its ProRes outputs
were compliant with MC/Sym and FCP. Yes it's $$$, but it does get you there
(in case anyone wanted to know).

I have found that while QT exports are generally atrocious and should be
avoided (like you say), Compressor handles this much more elegantly and
without noticeable shifting. I installed Compressor on all the edit suites,
created compression Droplets for delivery specs, and things go pretty
smoothly.

Oh, and for the record, I am most definitely not talking about checking
gamma levels within software. I am ALWAYS comparing levels as played out
through SDI I/O to a broadcast monitor. I simply don't care what it looks
like on a computer screen, unless that is its target destination. This
sentence is also exactly what I have told broadcast QC operators, and most
seem to adjust their sensibilities once they hear that.


On Sat, Jul 27, 2013 at 5:09 PM, Job ter Burg (L2B) <Job_L2@terburg.com>wrote:

> **
>
>
>
> On 24 jul. 2013, at 08:33, Mark Spano <cutandcover@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Why is this insane? ProRes is perfectly fine to deliver for broadcast.
>
> I'm not arguing the quality of the ProRes codec. I AM arguing the Apple
> H264 codec, which is severely gamma-flawed.
>
> I'm also arguing using anythin QT as a broadcast delivery format, since no
> one seems to know how to check nor specify luma level range for QT
> delivery. A broadcaster sent me their ident in H264 and in IMX50, both had
> completely different gamma (the IMX50 being the best looking and probably
> correct one).
>
> And: Apple won't allow you to create ProRes on a PC. So it's severely
> limited to a platform. That to me makes it far from a desirable common
> delivery format. But OK, let's assume that we all buy a Mac just to get
> there. Then there's still the issue with QT. If you export from QT Pro or
> from the Custom export options in MC (basically using QT), you WILL get
> gamma shifts when exporting to ProRes. You cannot maintain gamma and luma
> levels when roundtripping.
>
> The same goes for FCP, which in my limited experience only seems to work
> when you ingest and export through external hardware. File-based
> import/export in FCP is always messing with gamma and luma levels. I was
> never able for instance to properly import or export the Belle Nuit Test
> chart with gamma and luma levels intact. All P2-to-QT reencodes I received
> from FCP had screwed up gamma when compared to the MXF camera original.
>
> The only way I know to properly deliver ProRes is to transcode or mixdown
> to ProRes in MC6.5 or later, then export Same As Source. Aything QT in the
> mix will mess with your stuff.
>
> I really do feel that Op1A MXF is a much nicer, and more professional way
> to handle things. And I really, really hate Quicktime. Not the idea of
> Quicktime, but the common practice of Quicktime. I use it when I have to,
> often, but reluctantly.
>
> J
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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[Avid-L2] Re: faster Go Pro injest

 

Having discussed this topic with multiple Avid representatives at NAB, my take-away was that ProTools was getting some of the functionality of MC's current video engine and that, somewhere down the road, we could expect some of the functionality of the ProTools audio engine to migrate to MC.

I specifically asked about features such as unlimited audio tracks, sample-based editing, AAX plugins -- and the outrageous notion that audio plugins be somehow organized and presented to the user in something other than the complete and utter nonsense that is the Effects Palette.

I mean, really, the Effects Palette has all of the sophistication and usefulness of a v.1 product written in BASIC. I guess I should just be happy that the Effects Palette isn't also the repository for the Project Settings.

But I'm not complaining.

--- In Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com, "johnrobmoore" <bigfish@...> wrote:
>
> "the impression I got that night was that
> there's a new video engine. ProTools is getting it first. "
>
> Just a personal observation, and I know this was just your impression and not a fact. Does it seem strange to anyone else that the "New Video Engine" would be debuted in the audio product. I'm sure there could be valid reasons for this but it just seems strange. Kinda like coming out with a new audio feature in MC before they put it in ProTools. Just seems funny to me, ha ha funny not right or wrong funny.
>
> --- In Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com, John Pale <pale.edit@> wrote:
> >
> > Sorry..I don't have any special info...if I did, I would be under NDA.
> >
> > This was what I gleaned from the online Q&A Avid did when MC7 released at
> > NAB. It may be as limited as what you stated, where "elements" would
> > gradually be incorporated...but the impression I got that night was that
> > there's a new video engine. ProTools is getting it first. MC in the next
> > release, not MC7. But you may be right, and I may be misremembering the
> > exact wording. The live blogging that night was coming fast and furious.
> >
> > Apologies if I gave the impression that I knew some secret inside info.
> > Didn't mean to at all.
> >
> > On Saturday, July 27, 2013, blafarm wrote:
> >
> > > **
> > >
> > >
> > > > I think improvement will come when Avid introduces the new video engine
> > > in the next major release.
> > >
> > > Interesting. If I am not mistaken, I belive you have mentioned this a
> > > couple of times in the past weeks.
> > >
> > > At NAB, Avid was promoting the fact that components of the MC video engine
> > > had finally been integrated into ProTools -- and that, going forward, we
> > > could expect components of the ProTools audio engine to be incorporated
> > > into MC.
> > >
> > > Maybe I was talking to the wrong people, but I did not hear anything about
> > > a new MC video engine -- nor the release timing for such technology ("next
> > > major release").
> > >
> > > Would you mind sharing your knowledge of this new video engine?
> > >
> > > And when you say "next major release" -- were you told this technology
> > > would be incorporated into v.8?
> > >
> > > Thanks in advance.
> > >
> > > --- In Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com <javascript:_e({}, 'cvml',
> > > 'Avid-L2%40yahoogroups.com');>, John Pale <pale.edit@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > They are definitely doing something different with H.264 than your
> > > typical
> > > > DSLR (canon 5D, 7D, etc.), which work quite well with AMA. Probably a
> > > more
> > > > complex GOP structure. More CPU horsepower helps.
> > > >
> > > > Premiere Pro and FCPX can deal with it quite well. Will test with MC 7 on
> > > > my home Avid, in the coming week...but I am not hopeful. I think
> > > > improvement will come when Avid introduces the new video engine in the
> > > next
> > > > major release.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Fri, Jul 26, 2013 at 11:58 PM, Dom Q. Silverio <domqsilverio@
> > > ...>wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > **
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Many complex codecs that require Quicktime decoding ("sample provider")
> > > > > will always have terrible performance with AMA. It is utilizing the QT
> > > > > engine (32 bit, single threaded) for tasks normally reserved for MC.
> > > > > "Sample mapped" codecs (aka native Avid codecs) will perform better
> > > > > making playback, transcode, and simple edits viable.
> > > > >
> > > > > I have not tested large batch H.264 transcode with MC 7. Hopefully, it
> > > > > is better than 6.0/6.5.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On 7/26/2013 11:29 PM, John Pale wrote:
> > > > > > Dom, you might want to go to the 6th floor of MPE and see how poorly
> > > > > GoPro
> > > > > > footage works with AMA. I'll be happy to show you.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > :)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > It's definitely not a normal type of H.264/mp4. The lag is usually so
> > > > > bad,
> > > > > > you won't even be able to make selects to transcode...if you can keep
> > > > > from
> > > > > > crashing.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Fri, Jul 26, 2013 at 9:31 PM, Dom Q. Silverio <domqsilverio@
> > > > > >wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > >> **
> > > > >
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> GoPro uses H.264 based encoding in a MP4 container.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> I think AMA was added around 5.0.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> On 7/26/2013 8:49 PM, Robert Lawson wrote:
> > > > > >>> AMA for AVCHD material, like GoPro footage, was introduced in Media
> > > > > >>> Composer 6.5, if I recall.
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>> Remember that you get Sorenson Squeeze bundled with Media Composer
> > > and
> > > > > >>> NewsCutter now, so you may be able to use that to process the
> > > clips, as
> > > > > >>> well.
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>> ---
> > > > > >>> Rob Lawson
> > > > > >>> System Administrator, ACSR ISIS, Windows & Interplay
> > > > > >>> CBS News
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>> On Fri, Jul 26, 2013 at 7:46 PM, Dom Q. Silverio <
> > > > > domqsilverio@
> > > > > >>> wrote:
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>>> **
> > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>>> GoPro are MP4/H.264 files. Quicktime can open it, thus Avid can
> > > AMA
> > > > > it.
> > > > > >>>> I just AMA'd 4096x2160 file from a GoPro Hero Black Edition in to
> > > MC
> > > > > >> 6.5.
> > > > > >>>> Check your entire file path and name. Also, make sure you don't
> > > have
> > > > > any
> > > > > >>>> 3rd party H.264 decoder (such as Perien) that can interfere with
> > > AMA.
> > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>>> On 7/26/2013 6:58 PM, Benjamin Hershleder wrote:
> > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > >>>>> On Jul 26, 2013, at 3:47 PM, Lou Wirth wrote:
> > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>> Ive never been able to ama Go Pro. Not sure why.
> > > > > >>>>> Oh, Avid . . .
> > > > > >>>>> I bet you could make a lot of folks very happy
> > > > > >>>>> if you'd code an AMA plug-in for GoPro footage
> > > > > >>>>> (especially since Premiere eats it without a problem).
> > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > >>>>> Just sayin' . . . .
> > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > >>>>> B
> > > > > >>>>> ----
> > > > > >>>>> Benjamin Hershleder
> > > > > >>>>> Book: http://tinyurl.com/avidmc-book
> > > > > >>>>> Site: http://ContactBen.com
> > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>> On Jul 26, 2013, at 3:38 PM, Benjamin Hershleder <
> > > > > Ben@>
> > > > > >>>> wrote:
> > > > > >>>>>>> Hmmm, won't AMA you say.
> > > > > >>>>>>> I thought the line from Avid was:
> > > > > >>>>>>> "if it'll play in your QT Player, then it will AMA."
> > > > > >>>>>>> So, what's the deal? Why can't MC AMA to MPEG4 clips?
> > > > > >>>>>>> Or does GoPro use some sort of propriety codec?
> > > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>> Curious . . .
> > > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>> B
> > > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>> ----
> > > > > >>>>>>> Benjamin Hershleder
> > > > > >>>>>>> Book: http://tinyurl.com/avidmc-book
> > > > > >>>>>>> Site: http://ContactBen.com
> > > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>> On Jul 26, 2013, at 2:49 PM, Lou Wirth wrote:
> > > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>> Go Pro. Hate them! Long, big clips that won't AMA. Ties up
> > > system
> > > > > >>>> during import and in the end I use a few seconds of one or two
> > > clips
> > > > > at
> > > > > >>>> best. Is there a faster way to ingest? Even if that means
> > > converting
> > > > > in
> > > > > >>>> another software and then AMA. Anyone have a good system?
> > > > > >>>>>>>> thanks
> > > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>> Lou
> > > > > >>>>>>>> Lou Wirth Productions
> > > > > >>>>>>>> 500Tamal Plaza, Suite 522
> > > > > >>>>>>>> Corte Madera, CA 94925
> > > > > >>>>>>>> www.louwirth.com
> > > > > >>>>>>>> 415-924-9411p
> > > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > >>>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > >>>>> ------------------------------------
> > > > > >>>>> Search the official Complete Avid-L archives at:
> > > > > >>>> http://archives.bengrosser.com/avid/
> > > > > >>>>> Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>> ------------------------------------
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>> Search the official Complete Avid-L archives at:
> > > > > >> http://archives.bengrosser.com/avid/
> > > > > >>> Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >
> > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ------------------------------------
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Search the official Complete Avid-L archives at:
> > > > > http://archives.bengrosser.com/avid/
> > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>

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[Avid-L2] Re: faster Go Pro injest

 

"the impression I got that night was that
there's a new video engine. ProTools is getting it first. "

Just a personal observation, and I know this was just your impression and not a fact. Does it seem strange to anyone else that the "New Video Engine" would be debuted in the audio product. I'm sure there could be valid reasons for this but it just seems strange. Kinda like coming out with a new audio feature in MC before they put it in ProTools. Just seems funny to me, ha ha funny not right or wrong funny.

--- In Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com, John Pale <pale.edit@...> wrote:
>
> Sorry..I don't have any special info...if I did, I would be under NDA.
>
> This was what I gleaned from the online Q&A Avid did when MC7 released at
> NAB. It may be as limited as what you stated, where "elements" would
> gradually be incorporated...but the impression I got that night was that
> there's a new video engine. ProTools is getting it first. MC in the next
> release, not MC7. But you may be right, and I may be misremembering the
> exact wording. The live blogging that night was coming fast and furious.
>
> Apologies if I gave the impression that I knew some secret inside info.
> Didn't mean to at all.
>
> On Saturday, July 27, 2013, blafarm wrote:
>
> > **
> >
> >
> > > I think improvement will come when Avid introduces the new video engine
> > in the next major release.
> >
> > Interesting. If I am not mistaken, I belive you have mentioned this a
> > couple of times in the past weeks.
> >
> > At NAB, Avid was promoting the fact that components of the MC video engine
> > had finally been integrated into ProTools -- and that, going forward, we
> > could expect components of the ProTools audio engine to be incorporated
> > into MC.
> >
> > Maybe I was talking to the wrong people, but I did not hear anything about
> > a new MC video engine -- nor the release timing for such technology ("next
> > major release").
> >
> > Would you mind sharing your knowledge of this new video engine?
> >
> > And when you say "next major release" -- were you told this technology
> > would be incorporated into v.8?
> >
> > Thanks in advance.
> >
> > --- In Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com <javascript:_e({}, 'cvml',
> > 'Avid-L2%40yahoogroups.com');>, John Pale <pale.edit@> wrote:
> > >
> > > They are definitely doing something different with H.264 than your
> > typical
> > > DSLR (canon 5D, 7D, etc.), which work quite well with AMA. Probably a
> > more
> > > complex GOP structure. More CPU horsepower helps.
> > >
> > > Premiere Pro and FCPX can deal with it quite well. Will test with MC 7 on
> > > my home Avid, in the coming week...but I am not hopeful. I think
> > > improvement will come when Avid introduces the new video engine in the
> > next
> > > major release.
> > >
> > >
> > > On Fri, Jul 26, 2013 at 11:58 PM, Dom Q. Silverio <domqsilverio@
> > ...>wrote:
> > >
> > > > **
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Many complex codecs that require Quicktime decoding ("sample provider")
> > > > will always have terrible performance with AMA. It is utilizing the QT
> > > > engine (32 bit, single threaded) for tasks normally reserved for MC.
> > > > "Sample mapped" codecs (aka native Avid codecs) will perform better
> > > > making playback, transcode, and simple edits viable.
> > > >
> > > > I have not tested large batch H.264 transcode with MC 7. Hopefully, it
> > > > is better than 6.0/6.5.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On 7/26/2013 11:29 PM, John Pale wrote:
> > > > > Dom, you might want to go to the 6th floor of MPE and see how poorly
> > > > GoPro
> > > > > footage works with AMA. I'll be happy to show you.
> > > > >
> > > > > :)
> > > > >
> > > > > It's definitely not a normal type of H.264/mp4. The lag is usually so
> > > > bad,
> > > > > you won't even be able to make selects to transcode...if you can keep
> > > > from
> > > > > crashing.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On Fri, Jul 26, 2013 at 9:31 PM, Dom Q. Silverio <domqsilverio@
> > > > >wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >> **
> > > >
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >> GoPro uses H.264 based encoding in a MP4 container.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> I think AMA was added around 5.0.
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >> On 7/26/2013 8:49 PM, Robert Lawson wrote:
> > > > >>> AMA for AVCHD material, like GoPro footage, was introduced in Media
> > > > >>> Composer 6.5, if I recall.
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> Remember that you get Sorenson Squeeze bundled with Media Composer
> > and
> > > > >>> NewsCutter now, so you may be able to use that to process the
> > clips, as
> > > > >>> well.
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> ---
> > > > >>> Rob Lawson
> > > > >>> System Administrator, ACSR ISIS, Windows & Interplay
> > > > >>> CBS News
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> On Fri, Jul 26, 2013 at 7:46 PM, Dom Q. Silverio <
> > > > domqsilverio@
> > > > >>> wrote:
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>> **
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> GoPro are MP4/H.264 files. Quicktime can open it, thus Avid can
> > AMA
> > > > it.
> > > > >>>> I just AMA'd 4096x2160 file from a GoPro Hero Black Edition in to
> > MC
> > > > >> 6.5.
> > > > >>>> Check your entire file path and name. Also, make sure you don't
> > have
> > > > any
> > > > >>>> 3rd party H.264 decoder (such as Perien) that can interfere with
> > AMA.
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> On 7/26/2013 6:58 PM, Benjamin Hershleder wrote:
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>> On Jul 26, 2013, at 3:47 PM, Lou Wirth wrote:
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>> Ive never been able to ama Go Pro. Not sure why.
> > > > >>>>> Oh, Avid . . .
> > > > >>>>> I bet you could make a lot of folks very happy
> > > > >>>>> if you'd code an AMA plug-in for GoPro footage
> > > > >>>>> (especially since Premiere eats it without a problem).
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>> Just sayin' . . . .
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>> B
> > > > >>>>> ----
> > > > >>>>> Benjamin Hershleder
> > > > >>>>> Book: http://tinyurl.com/avidmc-book
> > > > >>>>> Site: http://ContactBen.com
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>> On Jul 26, 2013, at 3:38 PM, Benjamin Hershleder <
> > > > Ben@>
> > > > >>>> wrote:
> > > > >>>>>>> Hmmm, won't AMA you say.
> > > > >>>>>>> I thought the line from Avid was:
> > > > >>>>>>> "if it'll play in your QT Player, then it will AMA."
> > > > >>>>>>> So, what's the deal? Why can't MC AMA to MPEG4 clips?
> > > > >>>>>>> Or does GoPro use some sort of propriety codec?
> > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>> Curious . . .
> > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>> B
> > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>> ----
> > > > >>>>>>> Benjamin Hershleder
> > > > >>>>>>> Book: http://tinyurl.com/avidmc-book
> > > > >>>>>>> Site: http://ContactBen.com
> > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>> On Jul 26, 2013, at 2:49 PM, Lou Wirth wrote:
> > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>> Go Pro. Hate them! Long, big clips that won't AMA. Ties up
> > system
> > > > >>>> during import and in the end I use a few seconds of one or two
> > clips
> > > > at
> > > > >>>> best. Is there a faster way to ingest? Even if that means
> > converting
> > > > in
> > > > >>>> another software and then AMA. Anyone have a good system?
> > > > >>>>>>>> thanks
> > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>> Lou
> > > > >>>>>>>> Lou Wirth Productions
> > > > >>>>>>>> 500Tamal Plaza, Suite 522
> > > > >>>>>>>> Corte Madera, CA 94925
> > > > >>>>>>>> www.louwirth.com
> > > > >>>>>>>> 415-924-9411p
> > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>> ------------------------------------
> > > > >>>>> Search the official Complete Avid-L archives at:
> > > > >>>> http://archives.bengrosser.com/avid/
> > > > >>>>> Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> ------------------------------------
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> Search the official Complete Avid-L archives at:
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> > > > >>> Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >
> > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > ------------------------------------
> > > > >
> > > > > Search the official Complete Avid-L archives at:
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> > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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[Avid-L2] Re: "What are you grading this week 2013?", survey results.

 

I have found exporting a QT reference on my Mac SNDX 5.3.3.7 and earlier versions with OS 10.6.8 I can then export to ProRes in QT Pro 7.6.6 with no major gamma shifts and I get the extra audio channels. I can then ama link to the self contained QT ProRes and I only see a slight quadrature like error on the bars vector dots. Doing the same but just saving as and the bars are perfect from the Avid media QT when linked ama. Both have been adequate for network broadcast delivery. Trying to do the same exporting directly from Avid seems to have many more level issues in my limited experience of testing that.

--- In Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com, "Job ter Burg (L2B)" <Job_L2@...> wrote:
>
>
> On 24 jul. 2013, at 08:33, Mark Spano <cutandcover@...> wrote:
>
> > Why is this insane? ProRes is perfectly fine to deliver for broadcast.
>
>
> I'm not arguing the quality of the ProRes codec. I AM arguing the Apple H264 codec, which is severely gamma-flawed.
>
> I'm also arguing using anythin QT as a broadcast delivery format, since no one seems to know how to check nor specify luma level range for QT delivery. A broadcaster sent me their ident in H264 and in IMX50, both had completely different gamma (the IMX50 being the best looking and probably correct one).
>
> And: Apple won't allow you to create ProRes on a PC. So it's severely limited to a platform. That to me makes it far from a desirable common delivery format. But OK, let's assume that we all buy a Mac just to get there. Then there's still the issue with QT. If you export from QT Pro or from the Custom export options in MC (basically using QT), you WILL get gamma shifts when exporting to ProRes. You cannot maintain gamma and luma levels when roundtripping.
>
> The same goes for FCP, which in my limited experience only seems to work when you ingest and export through external hardware. File-based import/export in FCP is always messing with gamma and luma levels. I was never able for instance to properly import or export the Belle Nuit Test chart with gamma and luma levels intact. All P2-to-QT reencodes I received from FCP had screwed up gamma when compared to the MXF camera original.
>
> The only way I know to properly deliver ProRes is to transcode or mixdown to ProRes in MC6.5 or later, then export Same As Source. Aything QT in the mix will mess with your stuff.
>
> I really do feel that Op1A MXF is a much nicer, and more professional way to handle things. And I really, really hate Quicktime. Not the idea of Quicktime, but the common practice of Quicktime. I use it when I have to, often, but reluctantly.
>
> J
>

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[Avid-L2] Re: "What are you grading this week 2013?", survey results.

 

The digital delivery I did for NBC last December they accepted ProRes. They wanted it delivered through a dub house nearby in Hollywood because they had a distribution pipeline already set up with them. Funny because and extra 15 minutes of driving into the valley and we could have hand delivered to NBC/Universal lot. Sometimes it's not worth trying to be logical when dealing with corporate infrastructure. ;-)

--- In Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com, namyrb <namyrb@...> wrote:
>
> What about XDCAM? When we were delivering to NBC a couple of years ago,
> everyone was delivering XDCAM 50mbit QTs because they were having us
> deliver the digital masters over the Internet. Prores just took way too
> long to upload. We could have literally driven back and forth between our
> building and the NBC building 200 times before the prores files would be
> uploaded.
>
> On Wednesday, July 24, 2013, Dennis Degan wrote:
>
> > **
> >
> >
> >
> > On Jul 24, 2013, at 2:33 AM, Mark Spano wrote:
> >
> > > Why is this insane? ProRes is perfectly fine to deliver for broadcast.
> > Are you really getting "abysmal" gamma shifts when creating a ProRes file
> > for
> > delivery? I'm not.
> > > I cringe when I don't see it in a deliverable sheet because it means
> > "they don't really know" and I need to have a back and forth with someone
> > about why it's not great to take broadcast delivery as H.264 or worse.
> > > DNxHD and ProRes are both great for broadcast. Neither one is insane.
> >
> > I say:
> >
> > I agree. Literally EVERY edited clip, news story, B-Roll, or show opening
> > you see on NBC is played on air as DNxHD145. Central, Mountain, and Pacific
> > time zones see the Today show ENTIRELY as DNxHD.
> >
> > Dennis Degan, Video Editor-Consultant-Knowledge Bank
> > NBC Today Show, New York
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

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[Avid-L2] Re: faster Go Pro injest

 

> Apologies if I gave the impression that I knew some secret inside info.

No problem.
I just thought that maybe I missed something.
It wouldn't be the first time!
Cheers

--- In Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com, John Pale <pale.edit@...> wrote:
>
> Sorry..I don't have any special info...if I did, I would be under NDA.
>
> This was what I gleaned from the online Q&A Avid did when MC7 released at
> NAB. It may be as limited as what you stated, where "elements" would
> gradually be incorporated...but the impression I got that night was that
> there's a new video engine. ProTools is getting it first. MC in the next
> release, not MC7. But you may be right, and I may be misremembering the
> exact wording. The live blogging that night was coming fast and furious.
>
> Apologies if I gave the impression that I knew some secret inside info.
> Didn't mean to at all.
>
> On Saturday, July 27, 2013, blafarm wrote:
>
> > **
> >
> >
> > > I think improvement will come when Avid introduces the new video engine
> > in the next major release.
> >
> > Interesting. If I am not mistaken, I belive you have mentioned this a
> > couple of times in the past weeks.
> >
> > At NAB, Avid was promoting the fact that components of the MC video engine
> > had finally been integrated into ProTools -- and that, going forward, we
> > could expect components of the ProTools audio engine to be incorporated
> > into MC.
> >
> > Maybe I was talking to the wrong people, but I did not hear anything about
> > a new MC video engine -- nor the release timing for such technology ("next
> > major release").
> >
> > Would you mind sharing your knowledge of this new video engine?
> >
> > And when you say "next major release" -- were you told this technology
> > would be incorporated into v.8?
> >
> > Thanks in advance.
> >
> > --- In Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com <javascript:_e({}, 'cvml',
> > 'Avid-L2%40yahoogroups.com');>, John Pale <pale.edit@> wrote:
> > >
> > > They are definitely doing something different with H.264 than your
> > typical
> > > DSLR (canon 5D, 7D, etc.), which work quite well with AMA. Probably a
> > more
> > > complex GOP structure. More CPU horsepower helps.
> > >
> > > Premiere Pro and FCPX can deal with it quite well. Will test with MC 7 on
> > > my home Avid, in the coming week...but I am not hopeful. I think
> > > improvement will come when Avid introduces the new video engine in the
> > next
> > > major release.
> > >
> > >
> > > On Fri, Jul 26, 2013 at 11:58 PM, Dom Q. Silverio <domqsilverio@
> > ...>wrote:
> > >
> > > > **
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Many complex codecs that require Quicktime decoding ("sample provider")
> > > > will always have terrible performance with AMA. It is utilizing the QT
> > > > engine (32 bit, single threaded) for tasks normally reserved for MC.
> > > > "Sample mapped" codecs (aka native Avid codecs) will perform better
> > > > making playback, transcode, and simple edits viable.
> > > >
> > > > I have not tested large batch H.264 transcode with MC 7. Hopefully, it
> > > > is better than 6.0/6.5.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On 7/26/2013 11:29 PM, John Pale wrote:
> > > > > Dom, you might want to go to the 6th floor of MPE and see how poorly
> > > > GoPro
> > > > > footage works with AMA. I'll be happy to show you.
> > > > >
> > > > > :)
> > > > >
> > > > > It's definitely not a normal type of H.264/mp4. The lag is usually so
> > > > bad,
> > > > > you won't even be able to make selects to transcode...if you can keep
> > > > from
> > > > > crashing.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On Fri, Jul 26, 2013 at 9:31 PM, Dom Q. Silverio <domqsilverio@
> > > > >wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >> **
> > > >
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >> GoPro uses H.264 based encoding in a MP4 container.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> I think AMA was added around 5.0.
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >> On 7/26/2013 8:49 PM, Robert Lawson wrote:
> > > > >>> AMA for AVCHD material, like GoPro footage, was introduced in Media
> > > > >>> Composer 6.5, if I recall.
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> Remember that you get Sorenson Squeeze bundled with Media Composer
> > and
> > > > >>> NewsCutter now, so you may be able to use that to process the
> > clips, as
> > > > >>> well.
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> ---
> > > > >>> Rob Lawson
> > > > >>> System Administrator, ACSR ISIS, Windows & Interplay
> > > > >>> CBS News
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> On Fri, Jul 26, 2013 at 7:46 PM, Dom Q. Silverio <
> > > > domqsilverio@
> > > > >>> wrote:
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>> **
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> GoPro are MP4/H.264 files. Quicktime can open it, thus Avid can
> > AMA
> > > > it.
> > > > >>>> I just AMA'd 4096x2160 file from a GoPro Hero Black Edition in to
> > MC
> > > > >> 6.5.
> > > > >>>> Check your entire file path and name. Also, make sure you don't
> > have
> > > > any
> > > > >>>> 3rd party H.264 decoder (such as Perien) that can interfere with
> > AMA.
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> On 7/26/2013 6:58 PM, Benjamin Hershleder wrote:
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>> On Jul 26, 2013, at 3:47 PM, Lou Wirth wrote:
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>> Ive never been able to ama Go Pro. Not sure why.
> > > > >>>>> Oh, Avid . . .
> > > > >>>>> I bet you could make a lot of folks very happy
> > > > >>>>> if you'd code an AMA plug-in for GoPro footage
> > > > >>>>> (especially since Premiere eats it without a problem).
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>> Just sayin' . . . .
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>> B
> > > > >>>>> ----
> > > > >>>>> Benjamin Hershleder
> > > > >>>>> Book: http://tinyurl.com/avidmc-book
> > > > >>>>> Site: http://ContactBen.com
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>> On Jul 26, 2013, at 3:38 PM, Benjamin Hershleder <
> > > > Ben@>
> > > > >>>> wrote:
> > > > >>>>>>> Hmmm, won't AMA you say.
> > > > >>>>>>> I thought the line from Avid was:
> > > > >>>>>>> "if it'll play in your QT Player, then it will AMA."
> > > > >>>>>>> So, what's the deal? Why can't MC AMA to MPEG4 clips?
> > > > >>>>>>> Or does GoPro use some sort of propriety codec?
> > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>> Curious . . .
> > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>> B
> > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>> ----
> > > > >>>>>>> Benjamin Hershleder
> > > > >>>>>>> Book: http://tinyurl.com/avidmc-book
> > > > >>>>>>> Site: http://ContactBen.com
> > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>> On Jul 26, 2013, at 2:49 PM, Lou Wirth wrote:
> > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>> Go Pro. Hate them! Long, big clips that won't AMA. Ties up
> > system
> > > > >>>> during import and in the end I use a few seconds of one or two
> > clips
> > > > at
> > > > >>>> best. Is there a faster way to ingest? Even if that means
> > converting
> > > > in
> > > > >>>> another software and then AMA. Anyone have a good system?
> > > > >>>>>>>> thanks
> > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>> Lou
> > > > >>>>>>>> Lou Wirth Productions
> > > > >>>>>>>> 500Tamal Plaza, Suite 522
> > > > >>>>>>>> Corte Madera, CA 94925
> > > > >>>>>>>> www.louwirth.com
> > > > >>>>>>>> 415-924-9411p
> > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>> ------------------------------------
> > > > >>>>> Search the official Complete Avid-L archives at:
> > > > >>>> http://archives.bengrosser.com/avid/
> > > > >>>>> Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> ------------------------------------
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> Search the official Complete Avid-L archives at:
> > > > >> http://archives.bengrosser.com/avid/
> > > > >>> Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >
> > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > ------------------------------------
> > > > >
> > > > > Search the official Complete Avid-L archives at:
> > > > http://archives.bengrosser.com/avid/
> > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

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[Avid-L2] Re: Some information from the Blackmagic Event in Burbank

 

That was mentioned but IIRC there was concern about the 870 being a PC only card. Titan was not discussed. I don't know if they meant that the 870 was PC only or if Resolves use of it might be PC only. I'd suggest further research if trying to future proof, which in this day and age is impossible IMHO. The next gen mac pro was also mentioned and they said that there next version of software should perform quite well on it. In this case I don't know if they were talking about the next version of V9 or V10 but the vibe was Resolve will work well on the next gen MacPro even if it looks like a giant Kong dog toy to some of us. ;-)

--- In Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com, namyrb <namyrb@...> wrote:
>
> By the time Resolve 10 comes out, they'll probably be telling you to get
> the GTX 780 or the Titan.
>
>
> On Fri, Jul 26, 2013 at 8:19 AM, Bogdan Grigorescu <
> bogdan_grigorescu@...> wrote:
>
> > **
> >
> >
> > Care to share the name of the engineers you spoke to? IhHave a couple of
> > questions for them...
> > Also, you clearly stated to them that you are on a Mac with no expansion
> > chassis - right?
> >
> > thx,
> > BG
> > www.finale.tv
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: John Moore <bigfish@...>
> > To: Avid L2 <Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com>; "resolve-l@yahoogroups.com" <
> > resolve-l@yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Thursday, July 25, 2013 10:56 PM
> > Subject: [Avid-L2] Some information from the Blackmagic Event in Burbank
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > I made it to the Blackmagic event in Burbank and got to speak with the
> > two local Davinci techs from Blackmagic. There seems to have been some
> > misinformation from our Resolve consultant regarding the proper video
> > card to use. According to Blackmagic we should have installed the
> > GTX-680 that was suggested to me by many others. The Blackmagic
> > engineer told me that is their preferred card of choice today. They
> > also told me that when we tested the two Quadro 4000 cards we were
> > either running outdated software or the system was mis-configured not to
> > utilize both cards. The last two software builds allow two graphics
> > cards to work with Resolve without one being solely dedicated to the QUI
> > interface. When they added the second card either they forgot to update
> > the software or they were unaware of the new capabilities. Also it was a
> > surprise to me that regardless of what we've been told Resolve actually
> > runs better using the Red R3D raw files than with Avid DNX 220 media.
> > Apparently the Avid media is more
> > cpu intensive on Resolve, in a symphony the Nitris DX handles the DNX
> > decoding so it plays well but in Resolve it is very taxing on the CPU.
> > It would definitely be worth looking into swapping our Quadro 4000
> > card for a GTX-680, a quick google search shows that the 4000 card is
> > two to three times more expensive than the GTX-680 and I don't
> > understand why we were told that was not the right card for Resolve.
> >
> > As far as our workflow issues with round tripping the Davinci techs want
> > to take a look at our aaf and see what they can find out. I believe I
> > got to the bottom of many of the issues but the skipping frames seems to
> > be something that will require more research on Blackmagic's end. As far
> > as I can tell there is still an issue with mixed drop and non drop source
> > time code. The Blackmagic engineers said that 9.1.15 the latest build had
> > some improvements there but as I was testing with 9.1.15 it seems there are
> > still issues. Not being able to have mixed source codes really makes round
> > tripping not very viable for most of my shows.
> >
> > I was glad to get to talk with the engineers and they seem willing to pass
> > on the questions to the design folks so hopefully more will be revealed.
> >
> > John Moore
> > Barking Trout Productions
> > Studio City, CA
> > bigfish@...
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

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