Saturday, June 5, 2010

Re: [Avid-L2] list of Avid stuff you miss in FCP?

My kind of drinking companion!
Perhaps if I ever make it to Las Vegas, I can buy you a round or two.
Best,
Shirley


-----Original Message-----
From: Philip Hodgetts <philip@intelligentassistance.com>
To: Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sat, Jun 5, 2010 4:52 pm
Subject: Re: [Avid-L2] list of Avid stuff you miss in FCP?


On Jun 5, 2010, at 4:38 PM, Shirley Gutierrez wrote:

>

> Really, you'll spill the beans after a few drinks? You're on

> Phillip! What's your preference in libations?

Red wine or a Gin and Tonic! :)

Philip

Philip Hodgetts

President, Intelligent Assistance

AssistedEditing.com Fast First Cuts, Metadata Worfklows

Big Brains for Rent bigbrainsforrent.com

HD Survival Handbook 2009-2010

The New Now - Grow your business - ProAppsTips.com

Personal Blog http://philiphodgetts.com

Cell 818 335 3916

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Re: [Avid-L2] Re: list of Avid stuff you miss in FCP?

Excellent advice, as always!
Shirley


-----Original Message-----
From: oliverpetersvidy <oliverpeters@oliverpeters.com>
To: Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sat, Jun 5, 2010 5:06 pm
Subject: [Avid-L2] Re: list of Avid stuff you miss in FCP?


> Shirley Gutierrez wrote:

> this dumps renders, which is unacceptable.

You might seriously want to take a look at Adobe Premiere Pro CS5. Adobe has

taken the opposite approach, which is to create a largely render-free

environment. With a CUDA-enabled NVIDIA card and lots of RAM, you really see a

performance advantage. Their design objective is to stay real-time as much as

possible and then render once during the encode for an output file. Granted many

of us still deal with tape, but the Adobe method is actually designed to be more

in tune with the file-based world. I think it's ultimately the same approach

Apple will take with a future version of FCP, but based on OpenCL instead of

CUDA.

- Oliver

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Re: [Avid-L2] Re: list of Avid stuff you miss in FCP?

But what limitation are we working around?
Name one thing the FCP markers system does, one way in which it adds value, in contrast to MC. I don't think you can.
Yes, approaches can be different. Some approaches are more limited, and give the user fewer options. That's the difference with regards to this feature set in comparing FCP to MC. If you value limitation, and fewer options, then FCP markers work for you. If you value flexibility, then MC locators work for you.
But, the problem with this discussion is it's lopsidedness. As much as I complain about FCP, when I go back to Avid, there are some things I miss about it. I would also be compelled to admit that the presence of FCP's feature set in the marketplace has pushed Avid to be better. Perhaps that discussion would be the more useful thread. After all, Avid Inc. reads and responds to this list, while I sincerely doubt that Apple is paying any attention to what I say here.
So I put to all you bilingual FCP/MC editors, when you go back to Avid, what FCP features do you miss?
Shirley


-----Original Message-----
From: oliverpetersvidy <oliverpeters@oliverpeters.com>
To: Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sat, Jun 5, 2010 4:52 pm
Subject: [Avid-L2] Re: list of Avid stuff you miss in FCP?


> Shirley Gutierrez wrote:

> One place I work has a convention of creating a dedicated locator track.

Sounds like a workaround to me.

> Sorry, I just can't see how anyone could advocate for the FCP model

Not advocating, simply explaining how approaches can be different.

- Oliver

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[Avid-L2] DSLR Footage in Media Composer 5

I've been testing MC5 over the last week or so, and I'll have a review to
post in a few days... But before that I've just had a little play and wrote
up a very quick outline of the workflow for Canon DSLR footage in MC5 -
including a very simple video of the process...
http://dylanreeve.com/videotv/avid/2010/avid-media-composer-5-in-a-dslr-world.html

I especially like the video ( http://vimeo.com/12314709 ) - less than a
minute from the beginning to putting clips on the timeline... In fact 46
minutes of footage from one card was indexed, linked and ready to go in
about 13 seconds. It took me less than three minutes to get 129 minutes of
footage from five cards into MC5 and ready to edit.

The H.264 performance is still pretty taxing on the computer, but I'm using
a fairly low-spec laptop for my tests (dual Celeron 1.6GHz with 4GB RAM,
integrated Intel GPU). When I'm not running other apps I can maintain
reasonable playback of a stream of Canon H.264 footage. Also, the transcode
performance is very good. A transcode of a 1:03 clip was completed in a
little under 2 minutes 30 seconds, whereas importing the same file directly
to DNxHD 120 took more than twice as long.

On a marginally more powerful computer it should be a very workable setup
and certainly the fast way to edit DSLR footage that I've used (although I
understand Premiere Pro CS5 and Vegas are also offering pretty good
performance).

I'm very impressed with MC5 overall, although I'm still struggling a little
to get used to the Smart Tool, I think it could still use a little
refinement :)

--
Dylan Reeve
http://dylanreeve.com/


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Re: [Avid-L2] Re: list of Avid stuff you miss in FCP?

I'd quite like to take a look at Premiere CS5, but it'll be quite a while
before I get the chance (also my laptop, where I can play with these things,
hasn't got NVIDIA card). I'm personally interested to see if Avid will adopt
this GPU-processing technology - OpenGL for effects is one thing, but CUDA
or OpenCL for general processing is quite another. The way Avid seems to be
embracing extension frameworks (as with AMA and the SDK for third-party
hardware) I'm somewhat hopeful that they might create a processing framework
to take advantage of technologies like GPU processing, as well as specialist
hardware like Matrox's H264 card and the RED Rocket... That how I'd approach
it anyway :)

As for this thread generally - it's interesting to see that many of the
things people miss most in FCP are things that I don't even use in Media
Composer, in fact some things I didn't even know about!

What I miss most is usually the ability to put effects on filler, I find the
lack of what is essentially an adjustement layer in FCP to be really
limiting. And one of my biggest frustrations in FCP is the nesting workflow.
If I take Sequence A and edit it into Sequence B then the nested version of
Sequence A no longer has any relationship with the version of Sequence A in
my bin - if I change it in the Sequence B it doesn't update the bin copy,
and vice versa. That said, Avid has nothing like Nesting in that way, I'd
like to see some method for referenced nesting in Avid, for versioning
purposes (I know DS has something like this)

I'm really interested to see what FCP users have to say about Media Composer
5... With extended AMA and the Smart Tool it addresses (to some extent) two
of the biggest criticisms usually levelled at Media Composer by FCP editors.

On Sun, Jun 6, 2010 at 12:06 PM, oliverpetersvidy <
oliverpeters@oliverpeters.com> wrote:

>
>
> > Shirley Gutierrez wrote:
> > this dumps renders, which is unacceptable.
>
> You might seriously want to take a look at Adobe Premiere Pro CS5. Adobe
> has taken the opposite approach, which is to create a largely render-free
> environment. With a CUDA-enabled NVIDIA card and lots of RAM, you really see
> a performance advantage. Their design objective is to stay real-time as much
> as possible and then render once during the encode for an output file.
> Granted many of us still deal with tape, but the Adobe method is actually
> designed to be more in tune with the file-based world. I think it's
> ultimately the same approach Apple will take with a future version of FCP,
> but based on OpenCL instead of CUDA.
>
> - Oliver
>
>
>

--
Dylan Reeve
http://dylanreeve.com/


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Re: [Avid-L2] Re: list of Avid stuff you miss in FCP?

Thanks Terry. Helpful.

Tom

On Jun 5, 2010, at 9:04 PM, Terence Curren wrote:

>
>
> --- In Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com, Tom Meegan <tom@...> wrote:
>
> <<Things I miss from Avid when I go to FCP
> >
> > User settings all in one folder>>
>
> http://www.editgroove.com/usermatic/usermatic.html
>
>

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[Avid-L2] Re: Heads up!

Wow! That's an incredible piece of work. You should be proud.

Congratulations.


Tony Breuer

--- In Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com, "Steve" <steve.cuts@...> wrote:
>
> Friends, I hesitated to share this, but I am so proud of all the people who worked on this piece that I have decided to post this announcement here at the Avid -L.
>
> My film Nico's Challenge was awarded Best Short Documentary during the American Pavilion's Emerging Filmmakers Showcase at the Cannes Film Festival.
>
> If you watch online please check out the wonderful work done by one of our very own Mike Ammo. I'd also like to publicly thank all at the FRONTLINE OutPost who worked so hard to finish this film and give it the polish it deserved. The last cut of music actually comes from Tim Mangini's personal collection and wraps up the story very nicely.
>
> The film can be viewed online at http://vimeo.com/6701825
>
>
> I hope you enjoy it and share it with your family and friends. Mike and I and everyone else on the team made the film pro bono for the Free Wheelchair Mission. www.freewheelchairmission.org/
>
> SMA
>


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Re: [Avid-L2] Heads up!

On Jun 5, 2010, at 5:03 PM, Steve wrote:

> Friends, I hesitated to share this, but I am so proud of all the
> people who worked on this piece that I have decided to post this
> announcement here at the Avid -L.
>
> My film Nico's Challenge was awarded Best Short Documentary during
> the American Pavilion's Emerging Filmmakers Showcase at the Cannes
> Film Festival.

Congratulations are in order.

Philip

Philip Hodgetts
President, Intelligent Assistance
AssistedEditing.com Fast First Cuts, Metadata Worfklows
Big Brains for Rent bigbrainsforrent.com
HD Survival Handbook 2009-2010
The New Now - Grow your business - ProAppsTips.com

Personal Blog http://philiphodgetts.com
Cell 818 335 3916

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Re: [Avid-L2] Re: list of Avid stuff you miss in FCP?

On Jun 5, 2010, at 5:06 PM, oliverpetersvidy wrote:

>> Shirley Gutierrez wrote:
>> this dumps renders, which is unacceptable.
>
> You might seriously want to take a look at Adobe Premiere Pro CS5.
> Adobe has taken the opposite approach, which is to create a largely
> render-free environment.

Of course, the irony is that now we have this great real time
performance, we render everything out to files instead of real time
output to tape :)


Philip Hodgetts
President, Intelligent Assistance
AssistedEditing.com Fast First Cuts, Metadata Worfklows
Big Brains for Rent bigbrainsforrent.com
HD Survival Handbook 2009-2010
The New Now - Grow your business - ProAppsTips.com

Personal Blog http://philiphodgetts.com
Cell 818 335 3916

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[Avid-L2] Re: list of Avid stuff you miss in FCP?

--- In Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com, Tom Meegan <tom@...> wrote:


<<Things I miss from Avid when I go to FCP
>
> User settings all in one folder>>

http://www.editgroove.com/usermatic/usermatic.html

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[Avid-L2] Re: list of Avid stuff you miss in FCP?

> Shirley Gutierrez wrote:
> this dumps renders, which is unacceptable.

You might seriously want to take a look at Adobe Premiere Pro CS5. Adobe has taken the opposite approach, which is to create a largely render-free environment. With a CUDA-enabled NVIDIA card and lots of RAM, you really see a performance advantage. Their design objective is to stay real-time as much as possible and then render once during the encode for an output file. Granted many of us still deal with tape, but the Adobe method is actually designed to be more in tune with the file-based world. I think it's ultimately the same approach Apple will take with a future version of FCP, but based on OpenCL instead of CUDA.

- Oliver

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[Avid-L2] Heads up!

Friends, I hesitated to share this, but I am so proud of all the people who worked on this piece that I have decided to post this announcement here at the Avid -L.

My film Nico's Challenge was awarded Best Short Documentary during the American Pavilion's Emerging Filmmakers Showcase at the Cannes Film Festival.

If you watch online please check out the wonderful work done by one of our very own Mike Ammo. I'd also like to publicly thank all at the FRONTLINE OutPost who worked so hard to finish this film and give it the polish it deserved. The last cut of music actually comes from Tim Mangini's personal collection and wraps up the story very nicely.

The film can be viewed online at http://vimeo.com/6701825


I hope you enjoy it and share it with your family and friends. Mike and I and everyone else on the team made the film pro bono for the Free Wheelchair Mission. www.freewheelchairmission.org/

SMA

------------------------------------

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Re: [Avid-L2] list of Avid stuff you miss in FCP?

On Jun 5, 2010, at 4:38 PM, Shirley Gutierrez wrote:

>
> Really, you'll spill the beans after a few drinks? You're on
> Phillip! What's your preference in libations?

Red wine or a Gin and Tonic! :)

Philip

Philip Hodgetts
President, Intelligent Assistance
AssistedEditing.com Fast First Cuts, Metadata Worfklows
Big Brains for Rent bigbrainsforrent.com
HD Survival Handbook 2009-2010
The New Now - Grow your business - ProAppsTips.com

Personal Blog http://philiphodgetts.com
Cell 818 335 3916

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[Avid-L2] Re: list of Avid stuff you miss in FCP?

> Shirley Gutierrez wrote:
> One place I work has a convention of creating a dedicated locator track.

Sounds like a workaround to me.

> Sorry, I just can't see how anyone could advocate for the FCP model

Not advocating, simply explaining how approaches can be different.

- Oliver

------------------------------------

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Re: [Avid-L2] Re: list of Avid stuff you miss in FCP? Enough already!

I'm just recently back working on Avid, and my editing on both systems has gotten better since I started spending quality time on Avid. I've borrowed methods, efficiencies and ideas from both.

I also miss is the ability to look at a sequence in the Source side in the time line. Sorry if that was already mentioned.

Tom Meegan
Woven Pixels, LLC
603 502 5584

On Jun 5, 2010, at 7:37 PM, Mark wrote:

> Hey! I thought this was the Avid -L. You're supposed to be "Avid Editors", not FCP wanna be whiners. If FCP doesn't do what you want it to, then too bad! Leave it alone and go back to your Avids. To complain about FCP not doing this or that is beneath you! You should just be ignoring FCP and hope it goes away. Making suggestions for improving FCP will only threaten your livelihood and result in Koyaanisqatsi.
>
> Just my observations from the other "L".
>
> Mark
>
> --- In Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com, "oliverpetersvidy" <oliverpeters@...> wrote:
> >
> > > Shirley Gutierrez wrote:
> > > In the end, if you start by designing sensible software
> > > that actually works, perhaps you don't have quite so much
> > > clean up to do in the long term.
> >
> > I think you are starting from the position that one approach is right and the other wrong. They are merely different approaches. For example, what if you DON'T want sequence markers to stay locked to a clip on the timeline, but rather to a point in absolute time?
> >
> > - Oliver
> >
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Re: [Avid-L2] Re: list of Avid stuff you miss in FCP? Enough already!

Yes, yes, what he said. But of course, what's the point? And who started this, anyway? I've tried to be so good about not ranting about FCP; it's like taking that first drink. Oy.
I think I'm staggering back to the wagon again...

Shirley

-----Original Message-----
From: Mark <markraudonis@yahoo.com>
To: Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sat, Jun 5, 2010 4:37 pm
Subject: [Avid-L2] Re: list of Avid stuff you miss in FCP? Enough already!


Hey! I thought this was the Avid -L. You're supposed to be "Avid Editors",
not FCP wanna be whiners. If FCP doesn't do what you want it to, then too bad!
Leave it alone and go back to your Avids. To complain about FCP not doing this
or that is beneath you! You should just be ignoring FCP and hope it goes away.
Making suggestions for improving FCP will only threaten your livelihood and
result in Koyaanisqatsi.

Just my observations from the other "L".

Mark


--- In Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com, "oliverpetersvidy" <oliverpeters@...> wrote:
>
> > Shirley Gutierrez wrote:
> > In the end, if you start by designing sensible software
> > that actually works, perhaps you don't have quite so much
> > clean up to do in the long term.
>
> I think you are starting from the position that one approach is right and the
other wrong. They are merely different approaches. For example, what if you
DON'T want sequence markers to stay locked to a clip on the timeline, but rather
to a point in absolute time?
>
> - Oliver
>


------------------------------------

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Re: [Avid-L2] Re: list of Avid stuff you miss in FCP? Enough already!

LOL!
You're absolutely right about the futility of all this. Apple doesn't give a flying f*** about editing professionals. That's been established. For the record, this is coming from a dedicated Apple customer of about 20 years.
Shirley

-----Original Message-----
From: Mark <markraudonis@yahoo.com>
To: Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sat, Jun 5, 2010 4:37 pm
Subject: [Avid-L2] Re: list of Avid stuff you miss in FCP? Enough already!


Hey! I thought this was the Avid -L. You're supposed to be "Avid Editors",
not FCP wanna be whiners. If FCP doesn't do what you want it to, then too bad!
Leave it alone and go back to your Avids. To complain about FCP not doing this
or that is beneath you! You should just be ignoring FCP and hope it goes away.
Making suggestions for improving FCP will only threaten your livelihood and
result in Koyaanisqatsi.

Just my observations from the other "L".

Mark


--- In Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com, "oliverpetersvidy" <oliverpeters@...> wrote:
>
> > Shirley Gutierrez wrote:
> > In the end, if you start by designing sensible software
> > that actually works, perhaps you don't have quite so much
> > clean up to do in the long term.
>
> I think you are starting from the position that one approach is right and the
other wrong. They are merely different approaches. For example, what if you
DON'T want sequence markers to stay locked to a clip on the timeline, but rather
to a point in absolute time?
>
> - Oliver
>


------------------------------------

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Yahoo! Groups Links



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Re: [Avid-L2] list of Avid stuff you miss in FCP?

As to the timeline settings, I'm looking for all the factors that go into a saved timeline view, including track size, waveforms or not, etc.
And as far as video track soloing, I know how to change visibility on a track basis, but as Oliver has pointed out, this dumps renders, which is unacceptable. If there's some other, cost free, method to solo a video track, please, please share.
Really, you'll spill the beans after a few drinks? You're on Phillip! What's your preference in libations?
Shirley


-----Original Message-----
From: Philip Hodgetts <philip@intelligentassistance.com>
To: Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sat, Jun 5, 2010 4:15 pm
Subject: Re: [Avid-L2] list of Avid stuff you miss in FCP?

On Jun 5, 2010, at 3:34 PM, Shirley Gutierrez wrote:

>
> "Check. FCP has workspace layouts that can be keyboard assigned. It
>
> doesn't have users though."
> I know they have window layouts that are keyboard assignable, but do
> they recall timeline views as well, like workspaces do? Accessing
> the timeline view is huge.

What timeline view settings are you looking for?
>
>
> "Soloing has been supported in FCP since at least version 4."
>
> Video track soloing? Sorry I wasn't clear, but that's what I meant.

Yes, video track soloing

> And you're right, as a non-programmer, I find it really hard to
> imagine why it has taken ten years to get functional
> markers, especially now that I've seen all the new functionality in
> the past two versions of MC.
> In the end, if you start by designing sensible software that
> actually works, perhaps you don't have quite so much
> clean up to do in the long term.

The trouble is, when you're designing software, you often have no idea
what will be needed in 10 years time. :) Only then do you discover
that the foundations built a decade earlier aren't really suitable for
some modern function. Then it's an engineering/managerial decision as
to whether or not you demolish and start over (which Adobe did with
PPro) or progressively rewrite (as Avid have been doing with MC) or
build new stuff in the expectation that the older Cocoa code will be
running in 64 bit only to discover a year later that it won't.

And sometimes engineers are lazy :) (That's not a swipe at any current
engineering team that I know, but corner me after a few drinks in
private and I'll spill!) ;)


Philip

Philip Hodgetts
President, Intelligent Assistance
AssistedEditing.com Fast First Cuts, Metadata Worfklows
Big Brains for Rent bigbrainsforrent.com
HD Survival Handbook 2009-2010
The New Now - Grow your business - ProAppsTips.com

Personal Blog http://philiphodgetts.com
Cell 818 335 3916

------------------------------------

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http://tinyurl.com/y8pgceq

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Yahoo! Groups Links



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

------------------------------------

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[Avid-L2] Re: list of Avid stuff you miss in FCP? Enough already!

Hey! I thought this was the Avid -L. You're supposed to be "Avid Editors", not FCP wanna be whiners. If FCP doesn't do what you want it to, then too bad! Leave it alone and go back to your Avids. To complain about FCP not doing this or that is beneath you! You should just be ignoring FCP and hope it goes away. Making suggestions for improving FCP will only threaten your livelihood and result in Koyaanisqatsi.

Just my observations from the other "L".

Mark


--- In Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com, "oliverpetersvidy" <oliverpeters@...> wrote:
>
> > Shirley Gutierrez wrote:
> > In the end, if you start by designing sensible software
> > that actually works, perhaps you don't have quite so much
> > clean up to do in the long term.
>
> I think you are starting from the position that one approach is right and the other wrong. They are merely different approaches. For example, what if you DON'T want sequence markers to stay locked to a clip on the timeline, but rather to a point in absolute time?
>
> - Oliver
>


------------------------------------

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[Avid-L2] Re: list of Avid stuff you miss in FCP?

We're missing some of the big ones:

1. Settings (such as sequence presets and scratch disk locations) that follow a project.

2. Animatte. The FCP versions of this -- the 4 and 8 point garbage mattes -- are pathetic. Yes, I know I can roundtrip to Motion, and I do it all the time, but why should I have to? Nowadays, it's a very basic task of offline editing.

3. Render tracking.

4. An undo list.

5. The Avid model of sequence to sequence editing, with a source timeline visible. I've gotten quite used to the FCP copy and paste technique over my 5 years of FCP editing, but I still prefer the way Avid does it.

BTW this is a list from a guy (me) that overall prefers FCP, though sometimes I'm not sure why. Really looking forward to trying MC5.

Michael Heldman
Spot Welders

------------------------------------

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Re: [Avid-L2] Re: list of Avid stuff you miss in FCP?

Oliver! You of all people know that MC allows me to ripple or not ripple, since I can add locators to any media track. One place I work has a convention of creating a dedicated locator track. Since MC allows me to decide which tracks stay in sync with one another, I can decide to have this track ripple or not. I can also add locators to individual media tracks as in FCP, but these locators I can actually see in the timeline, unlike the FCP ones, which require me to double click on the segment to open it in the Viewer. Moreover, MC gives me all the wonderful functionality of the locator window, which allows me to sort by user, locator color, track, timecode, or comment, as well as double clicking from the window to navigate to a given locator. Excuse me, where does FCP do that?

Sorry, I just can't see how anyone could advocate for the FCP model when it comes to this feature. In my view, sensible software is the software that gives you options, and MC just has many more.

Shirley

-----Original Message-----
From: oliverpetersvidy <oliverpeters@oliverpeters.com>
To: Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sat, Jun 5, 2010 3:59 pm
Subject: [Avid-L2] Re: list of Avid stuff you miss in FCP?


> Shirley Gutierrez wrote:
> In the end, if you start by designing sensible software
> that actually works, perhaps you don't have quite so much
> clean up to do in the long term.

I think you are starting from the position that one approach is right and the
other wrong. They are merely different approaches. For example, what if you
DON'T want sequence markers to stay locked to a clip on the timeline, but rather
to a point in absolute time?

- Oliver

------------------------------------

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Re: [Avid-L2] Re: list of Avid stuff you miss in FCP?

Come on Oliver. You of all people know that MC allows me to ripple or not ripple, since I can add markers to any media track. One place I work has a convention of creating a dedicated locator track. Since MC allows me to decide which tracks stay in sync with one another, I can decide to have this track ripple or not. I can also add locators to individual media tracks as in FCP, but these locators I can actually see in the timeline, unlike the FCP ones, which require me to double click on the segment to open it in the Viewer. Moreover, MC gives me all the wonderful functionality of the locator window, which allows me to sort by user, locator color, track, timecode, or comment. Excuse me, where does FCP do that?

Sorry, I just can't see how anyone could advocate for the FCP model when it comes to this feature. In my view, sensible software is the software that gives you options, and MC just has many more.

Shirley


-----Original Message-----
From: oliverpetersvidy <oliverpeters@oliverpeters.com>
To: Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sat, Jun 5, 2010 3:59 pm
Subject: [Avid-L2] Re: list of Avid stuff you miss in FCP?


> Shirley Gutierrez wrote:

> In the end, if you start by designing sensible software

> that actually works, perhaps you don't have quite so much

> clean up to do in the long term.

I think you are starting from the position that one approach is right and the

other wrong. They are merely different approaches. For example, what if you

DON'T want sequence markers to stay locked to a clip on the timeline, but rather

to a point in absolute time?

- Oliver

------------------------------------

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Re: [Avid-L2] Re: list of Avid stuff you miss in FCP?

Yes, that I'm familiar with. I didn't consider that a true solo, since it has an unacceptable render cost. I use Clip enable/disable for want of anything better.
Shirley


-----Original Message-----
From: oliverpetersvidy <oliverpeters@oliverpeters.com>
To: Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sat, Jun 5, 2010 3:50 pm
Subject: [Avid-L2] Re: list of Avid stuff you miss in FCP?


> Shirley Gutierrez wrote:

> Video track soloing?

Yes, but since it's a visibility function, it breaks renders on the timeline.

Clip enable/disable in an isolated area avoids breaking renders in other parts

of the timeline.

- Oliver

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Re: [Avid-L2] list of Avid stuff you miss in FCP?

On Jun 5, 2010, at 3:34 PM, Shirley Gutierrez wrote:

>
> "Check. FCP has workspace layouts that can be keyboard assigned. It
>
> doesn't have users though."
> I know they have window layouts that are keyboard assignable, but do
> they recall timeline views as well, like workspaces do? Accessing
> the timeline view is huge.

What timeline view settings are you looking for?
>
>
> "Soloing has been supported in FCP since at least version 4."
>
> Video track soloing? Sorry I wasn't clear, but that's what I meant.

Yes, video track soloing

> And you're right, as a non-programmer, I find it really hard to
> imagine why it has taken ten years to get functional
> markers, especially now that I've seen all the new functionality in
> the past two versions of MC.
> In the end, if you start by designing sensible software that
> actually works, perhaps you don't have quite so much
> clean up to do in the long term.

The trouble is, when you're designing software, you often have no idea
what will be needed in 10 years time. :) Only then do you discover
that the foundations built a decade earlier aren't really suitable for
some modern function. Then it's an engineering/managerial decision as
to whether or not you demolish and start over (which Adobe did with
PPro) or progressively rewrite (as Avid have been doing with MC) or
build new stuff in the expectation that the older Cocoa code will be
running in 64 bit only to discover a year later that it won't.

And sometimes engineers are lazy :) (That's not a swipe at any current
engineering team that I know, but corner me after a few drinks in
private and I'll spill!) ;)


Philip

Philip Hodgetts
President, Intelligent Assistance
AssistedEditing.com Fast First Cuts, Metadata Worfklows
Big Brains for Rent bigbrainsforrent.com
HD Survival Handbook 2009-2010
The New Now - Grow your business - ProAppsTips.com

Personal Blog http://philiphodgetts.com
Cell 818 335 3916

------------------------------------

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[Avid-L2] Re: list of Avid stuff you miss in FCP?

> Philip Hodgetts wrote:
> It doesn't have users though.

True, but there are some 3rd party utilities that mimics this type of control.

- Oliver

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[Avid-L2] Re: list of Avid stuff you miss in FCP?

> Shirley Gutierrez wrote:
> In the end, if you start by designing sensible software
> that actually works, perhaps you don't have quite so much
> clean up to do in the long term.

I think you are starting from the position that one approach is right and the other wrong. They are merely different approaches. For example, what if you DON'T want sequence markers to stay locked to a clip on the timeline, but rather to a point in absolute time?

- Oliver

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[Avid-L2] Re: list of Avid stuff you miss in FCP?

> Roger Shufflebottom wrote:
> On FCP, the saved
> layout does not include these.

In FCP the timeline layout is based on sequences and sequence setting presets. So you can change the layout of one sequence without changing another. Pros and cons, but remember you can have multiple sequences open at once and might not want the same layout for all.

- Oliver

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[Avid-L2] Re: list of Avid stuff you miss in FCP?

> Shirley Gutierrez wrote:
> Video track soloing?

Yes, but since it's a visibility function, it breaks renders on the timeline. Clip enable/disable in an isolated area avoids breaking renders in other parts of the timeline.

- Oliver

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Re: [Avid-L2] list of Avid stuff you miss in FCP?

Everybody got here before me but one useless feature is 'Save Track
Layout'. On an Avid, the Timeline View would include things like audio
waveforms and keyframes (if I'd included them). On FCP, the saved
layout does not include these. Doh!
+++
With best wishes,

Roger Shufflebottom
roger@bottom-line.tv
http://www.bottom-line.tv

On 5 Jun 2010, at 19:52, Tom Meegan wrote:

Things I miss from Avid when I go to FCP

User settings all in one folder
Workspaces that can be tied to everything
Most of FCP's "auto focus" functionality being tied to track patching
Render file management


Things I miss from FCP when I go to Avid

Composite modes in the timeline
Opacity in the timeline
Ease of filter/effect stacking.

Tom Meegan
Woven Pixels, LLC
603 502 5584

On Jun 5, 2010, at 2:32 PM, Steve Hullfish wrote:

>
>
> I just saw the start of an interesting ad hoc list of things that Avid
> editors miss when they go to FCP. Obviously this is a list that could
> easily go both ways, but for those of us that move back and forth
> between Avid and FCP, what are some of the things that you really miss
> about Avid when you are cutting on FCP? I am not trying to be a troll
> here. Just truly curious. Obviously there's some stuff coming in v5
> that will add to this list once people start using it.
>
> My partial list so far, in no particular order:
>
> expandable audio waveforms inside the track (FCP can expand track
> size, but not waveform size within the track)
> Show Marked Waveforms only
> Phantom Marks
> See four and six window trim windows (six windows for checking
> transitions)
> Add effects to filler
> Natural Match
> Top and Tail
>
> Steve Hullfish
> contributor: www.provideocoalition.com
> author: "The Art and Technique of Digital Color Correction"
> co-author: "Color Correction for Video: revised edition," "Avid Xpress
> Pro Editing Workshop" and "Avid XpressDV On the Spot"
> presenter: Class On Demand's "Complete Training for Avid Media
> Composer" AND "Complete Training for Apple Color"
> www.classondemand.net/media/final-cut-training/color01.aspx
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Re: [Avid-L2] list of Avid stuff you miss in FCP?

"Check. FCP has workspace layouts that can be keyboard assigned. It

doesn't have users though."
I know they have window layouts that are keyboard assignable, but do they recall timeline views as well, like workspaces do? Accessing the timeline view is huge.


"Soloing has been supported in FCP since at least version 4."

Video track soloing? Sorry I wasn't clear, but that's what I meant. I use audio track soloing all the time,
and have for years. And I would want this to be on a track, not individually selected segment, basis. I suppose
you could use the track forward select tool, and then use solo selected, but I dislike selecting entire tracks. It's
just to easy to do something you don't want when all that stuff is selected.
Also, I wouldn't really want FCP to be a "clone" of MC; I would settle for it being just a tad more practical.
And you're right, as a non-programmer, I find it really hard to imagine why it has taken ten years to get functional
markers, especially now that I've seen all the new functionality in the past two versions of MC.
In the end, if you start by designing sensible software that actually works, perhaps you don't have quite so much
clean up to do in the long term.

Best,
Shirley


-----Original Message-----
From: Philip Hodgetts <philip@intelligentassistance.com>
To: Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sat, Jun 5, 2010 3:12 pm
Subject: Re: [Avid-L2] list of Avid stuff you miss in FCP?


On Jun 5, 2010, at 2:55 PM, Shirley Gutierrez wrote:

> To your list I would add:

>

> 1) The Avid trim tools, including the four frame display in slip/

> slide, JKL slip/slid, trimming on the fly, isolating sides easily

> with a key command (i.e., playing up the cut and stopping, or

> playing from the cut forward), being able to SEE when you trim shots

> on different tracks (imagine that!)

> 2) Workspaces!

Check. FCP has workspace layouts that can be keyboard assigned. It

doesn't have users though.

> 3) Phantom marks, but also the ability just to align to the fourth

> mark of a three mark edit by using a "go to in/out" key, even when

> phantom marks are not enabled, as in MC

> 4) Avid's monitoring flexibility. Yes, I know you can turn of

> playback for individual clips in FCP, but this is pain in the ass.

> And what about soloing?

Soloing has been supported in FCP since at least version 4.

> 5) Selective sync locking of tracks, without constantly having to

> work around this unbelievably stupid, Draconinan, PITA global sync

> lock that FCP stuffs down your gagging throat whether you like it or

> not.

> 7) Track auto patching that actually works.

> 8) Locators that actually work, including MC's powerful locator

> window. The only locators you can actually see in FCP without double

> clicking to open up segments are timeline locators, but they don't

> stay in sync, so they're absolutely useless. I've heard this has

> changed in 7, but come on, why did it take ten years?

Because software takes work and changes are frequently very difficult.

Usually way more so than non-programmers ever imagine.

> 10) One version of any given clip extant in the NLE. Let's say I

> have a clip which I've edited from in a few places, and later when I

> have time, I go back and place a bunch of markers. When I match back

> to that clip from one of the early, pre-markers timeline instances

> of that clip, it takes me back to some forever young version of that

> media that doesn't show all the markers I have since painstakingly

> added.

Largely depends on what you match back to FCP 7 got additional features.

>

> I'm sure there's more, but that's all I can think of right now. BTW,

> this is cathartic of course (a good FCP rant always is), but what's

> the use? Will anyone at Apple ever see our comments? And do they

> even care? Most of their user base is kids who don't have any basis

> of comparison. Why should they care about what a 30 year veteran

> thinks?

There's zero value making FCP a clone of MC (and vice versa) as there

is already MC and FCP, so that's why you're not getting heard :)

Philip

Philip Hodgetts

President, Intelligent Assistance

AssistedEditing.com Fast First Cuts, Metadata Worfklows

Big Brains for Rent bigbrainsforrent.com

HD Survival Handbook 2009-2010

The New Now - Grow your business - ProAppsTips.com

Personal Blog http://philiphodgetts.com

Cell 818 335 3916

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[Avid-L2] Re: list of Avid stuff you miss in FCP?

> Posted by: Shirley Gutierrez
> As to the second point, when you say "the cursor" do you mean the position line?

No, the cursor. The tip of your mouse pointer, which has turned into a magnifying glass when you press Z.

- Oliver

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Re: [Avid-L2] list of Avid stuff you miss in FCP?

On Jun 5, 2010, at 2:55 PM, Shirley Gutierrez wrote:

> To your list I would add:
>
> 1) The Avid trim tools, including the four frame display in slip/
> slide, JKL slip/slid, trimming on the fly, isolating sides easily
> with a key command (i.e., playing up the cut and stopping, or
> playing from the cut forward), being able to SEE when you trim shots
> on different tracks (imagine that!)
> 2) Workspaces!

Check. FCP has workspace layouts that can be keyboard assigned. It
doesn't have users though.

> 3) Phantom marks, but also the ability just to align to the fourth
> mark of a three mark edit by using a "go to in/out" key, even when
> phantom marks are not enabled, as in MC
> 4) Avid's monitoring flexibility. Yes, I know you can turn of
> playback for individual clips in FCP, but this is pain in the ass.
> And what about soloing?

Soloing has been supported in FCP since at least version 4.

> 5) Selective sync locking of tracks, without constantly having to
> work around this unbelievably stupid, Draconinan, PITA global sync
> lock that FCP stuffs down your gagging throat whether you like it or
> not.
> 7) Track auto patching that actually works.
> 8) Locators that actually work, including MC's powerful locator
> window. The only locators you can actually see in FCP without double
> clicking to open up segments are timeline locators, but they don't
> stay in sync, so they're absolutely useless. I've heard this has
> changed in 7, but come on, why did it take ten years?

Because software takes work and changes are frequently very difficult.
Usually way more so than non-programmers ever imagine.

> 10) One version of any given clip extant in the NLE. Let's say I
> have a clip which I've edited from in a few places, and later when I
> have time, I go back and place a bunch of markers. When I match back
> to that clip from one of the early, pre-markers timeline instances
> of that clip, it takes me back to some forever young version of that
> media that doesn't show all the markers I have since painstakingly
> added.

Largely depends on what you match back to FCP 7 got additional features.
>
> I'm sure there's more, but that's all I can think of right now. BTW,
> this is cathartic of course (a good FCP rant always is), but what's
> the use? Will anyone at Apple ever see our comments? And do they
> even care? Most of their user base is kids who don't have any basis
> of comparison. Why should they care about what a 30 year veteran
> thinks?

There's zero value making FCP a clone of MC (and vice versa) as there
is already MC and FCP, so that's why you're not getting heard :)

Philip


Philip Hodgetts
President, Intelligent Assistance
AssistedEditing.com Fast First Cuts, Metadata Worfklows
Big Brains for Rent bigbrainsforrent.com
HD Survival Handbook 2009-2010
The New Now - Grow your business - ProAppsTips.com

Personal Blog http://philiphodgetts.com
Cell 818 335 3916

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Re: [Avid-L2] Re: list of Avid stuff you miss in FCP?

It also allows click+drag "lasso" of the target area (albeit not quite

as precise as MC).

Ok, that part I didn't know about. Thanks!
Shirley


-----Original Message-----
From: Jimmy Dutt <bytemonkey@mac.com>
To: Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sat, Jun 5, 2010 3:01 pm
Subject: Re: [Avid-L2] Re: list of Avid stuff you miss in FCP?


On 2010 June 05, at 17:41 EDT, oliverpetersvidy wrote:

> Click the Z key (for "zoom") and move cursor over the timeline

> section you want to blow up

It also allows click+drag "lasso" of the target area (albeit not quite

as precise as MC).

Also good to remember is the "Shift Z" shortcut which, while somewhat

inconsistent throughout the FC Studio suite, generally does a "Zoom To

Window" or "Fit To Window" function. The Timeline-specific equivalent

in MC is, of course "Cmd /"

-jimmy

--

BYTEmonkeys

Creativity for your Creative

http://bytemonkeys.tv

692 N. High St., Suite 304

Columbus, OH 43215

614.824.1685

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Re: [Avid-L2] Re: list of Avid stuff you miss in FCP?

On 2010 June 05, at 17:41 EDT, oliverpetersvidy wrote:

> Click the Z key (for "zoom") and move cursor over the timeline
> section you want to blow up

It also allows click+drag "lasso" of the target area (albeit not quite
as precise as MC).

Also good to remember is the "Shift Z" shortcut which, while somewhat
inconsistent throughout the FC Studio suite, generally does a "Zoom To
Window" or "Fit To Window" function. The Timeline-specific equivalent
in MC is, of course "Cmd /"

-jimmy

--

BYTEmonkeys
Creativity for your Creative
http://bytemonkeys.tv
692 N. High St., Suite 304
Columbus, OH 43215
614.824.1685

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