You are correct that subtitles/caption track handling is specific to applications. There are standards, or more precisely standard practices, but they are specific to distribution formats: broadcast, DCP, optical, streaming platforms, etc… I recently had to wrap my head around how this is handled in multi-language DCPs, and it is complicated. There is more than one way.
However, I don't think any format can play two tracks at once. All subs desired for a given playback must be in one track. The "Forced Only" track is specific to the original spoken language only. For any given translation, you would include any necessary "forced" subs, and these may not be same as for the original language. For instance, if the Forced subs for English are French, and you do a French track, choosing to include or not include the French subs in the translation would be an aesthetic choice. I recently watched an English translation where English subs appeared when the characters understood English, but did not appear when the characters on screen did not understand. Sounds odd, but it worked.
This is also how dual language subs work, such as having both French and Arabic simultaneously. It all goes in one track. You can't combine a French track and an Arabic track somehow. You need to create a distinct French/Arabic subtitle track.
Does that help?
Cheers,
tod
> On Oct 30, 2024, at 1:01 PM, Jef Huey <jlhueyc2@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I have a question about strategies for subtitles.
>
> I am finishing a film that has predominately English dialogue. There are some sections where Hindi is spoken.
> The base video file has no burned in subititles. We have a Forced English subtitle file that translates the spoken Hindi into English.
>
> This film is currently being streamed by Artinii. I have reached out to them with this question. I do understand that various services handle this differently which is making this challenging.
>
> How should we manage various non English languages? For example, if we make a French subtitle file which translates all dialogue (English and Hindi) into French, how does the file currently marked as "Forced" get disabled so that we do not have both English and French text on the screen when a viewer wishes to see the French subtitles?
>
> Confused as this all seems to be viewing app controlled and there is not really a standard. Or is there?
>
> Thanks,
> Jef
>
>
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Wednesday, October 30, 2024
Re: [Avid-L2] Subtitles for documentaries going to multiple languages
Question:
What is a Forced Narrative Subtitle?
Answer:
A Forced Narrative (FN) subtitle is a text overlay that clarifies communications or alternate languages meant to be understood by the viewer. They can also be used to clarify dialogue, texted graphics or location/person IDs that are not otherwise covered in the dubbed/localized audio. To enable the same viewing experience across multiple countries and devices, FN subtitles are localized and delivered as separate timed text files. The picture in your primary video (A/V MUX) that would otherwise have subtitles is required to be delivered as a non-subtitled file, or textless. Subtitles, both full and FN, are not burned-in over picture.
What is a Forced Narrative Subtitle?
Answer:
A Forced Narrative (FN) subtitle is a text overlay that clarifies communications or alternate languages meant to be understood by the viewer. They can also be used to clarify dialogue, texted graphics or location/person IDs that are not otherwise covered in the dubbed/localized audio. To enable the same viewing experience across multiple countries and devices, FN subtitles are localized and delivered as separate timed text files. The picture in your primary video (A/V MUX) that would otherwise have subtitles is required to be delivered as a non-subtitled file, or textless. Subtitles, both full and FN, are not burned-in over picture.
On our service, Forced Narrative subtitles are only displayed if full Subtitles and CC are set to "off" in the user's playback settings. When the user activates a full Subtitle or CC file, the FN subtitle does not display and for this reason, we require that all Forced Narrative events are also included in each full Subtitle and SDH/CC file.
For a detailed explanation, please review the article Understanding Forced Narrative Subtitles.
cheers, BG
On Wednesday, October 30, 2024 at 07:17:05 p.m. GMT, David Ross <speckydave@gmail.com> wrote:
My understanding of 'forced' subtitles is that they're only 'forced' where the stated language of the content matches the viewer's preference, and their player is set to otherwise NOT show subtitles for content in this language. So in this case, the subtitles should only be forced on when the player preference is not to show subtitles for English language content.
A French-speaking viewer who has set their player to display subtitles for non-French content would get ONLY the French subtitles.
A Hindi-speaking viewer who has set their player to display subtitles for non-Hindi content would get ONLY the Hindi subtitles (which may or may not include the Hindi parts).
etc.
So, as long as nothing is actually burned in to the video, I would not expect to see two sets of subtitles at the same time.
D.
I have a question about strategies for subtitles.I am finishing a film that has predominately English dialogue. There are some sections where Hindi is spoken.The base video file has no burned in subititles. We have a Forced English subtitle file that translates the spoken Hindi into English.This film is currently being streamed by Artinii. I have reached out to them with this question. I do understand that various services handle this differently which is making this challenging.How should we manage various non English languages? For example, if we make a French subtitle file which translates all dialogue (English and Hindi) into French, how does the file currently marked as "Forced" get disabled so that we do not have both English and French text on the screen when a viewer wishes to see the French subtitles?Confused as this all seems to be viewing app controlled and there is not really a standard. Or is there?Thanks,Jef
Re: [Avid-L2] Subtitles for documentaries going to multiple languages
My understanding of 'forced' subtitles is that they're only 'forced' where the stated language of the content matches the viewer's preference, and their player is set to otherwise NOT show subtitles for content in this language. So in this case, the subtitles should only be forced on when the player preference is not to show subtitles for English language content.
A French-speaking viewer who has set their player to display subtitles for non-French content would get ONLY the French subtitles.
A Hindi-speaking viewer who has set their player to display subtitles for non-Hindi content would get ONLY the Hindi subtitles (which may or may not include the Hindi parts).
etc.
So, as long as nothing is actually burned in to the video, I would not expect to see two sets of subtitles at the same time.
D.
I have a question about strategies for subtitles.I am finishing a film that has predominately English dialogue. There are some sections where Hindi is spoken.The base video file has no burned in subititles. We have a Forced English subtitle file that translates the spoken Hindi into English.This film is currently being streamed by Artinii. I have reached out to them with this question. I do understand that various services handle this differently which is making this challenging.How should we manage various non English languages? For example, if we make a French subtitle file which translates all dialogue (English and Hindi) into French, how does the file currently marked as "Forced" get disabled so that we do not have both English and French text on the screen when a viewer wishes to see the French subtitles?Confused as this all seems to be viewing app controlled and there is not really a standard. Or is there?Thanks,Jef
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Re: [Avid-L2] Subtitles for documentaries going to multiple languages
I believe it usually is all presented on a single full subtitle track for those other languages. No separate "forced" track for the other language. The other languages get called out in the subtitle as they appear and change.
So in your case as an example, when the spoken language changes to English, it would look like this:
[Anglais] Oui monsieur.
then a change to Hindi would be:
[Hindi] Allons-y.
So all of the languages will appear in the full subtitle track to a French speaker and they get prefaced in the subtitle by the language spoken. This should happen on the first line for each new language.
This is how you would only have to choose FR subtitles as a French person watching your EN/Hindi spoken film.
I am only giving this information based on how I've seen it. There may not actually be a standard, but this has made sense to me.
I have a question about strategies for subtitles.I am finishing a film that has predominately English dialogue. There are some sections where Hindi is spoken.The base video file has no burned in subititles. We have a Forced English subtitle file that translates the spoken Hindi into English.This film is currently being streamed by Artinii. I have reached out to them with this question. I do understand that various services handle this differently which is making this challenging.How should we manage various non English languages? For example, if we make a French subtitle file which translates all dialogue (English and Hindi) into French, how does the file currently marked as "Forced" get disabled so that we do not have both English and French text on the screen when a viewer wishes to see the French subtitles?Confused as this all seems to be viewing app controlled and there is not really a standard. Or is there?Thanks,Jef
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[Avid-L2] Subtitles for documentaries going to multiple languages
I have a question about strategies for subtitles.
I am finishing a film that has predominately English dialogue. There are some sections where Hindi is spoken.
The base video file has no burned in subititles. We have a Forced English subtitle file that translates the spoken Hindi into English.
This film is currently being streamed by Artinii. I have reached out to them with this question. I do understand that various services handle this differently which is making this challenging.
How should we manage various non English languages? For example, if we make a French subtitle file which translates all dialogue (English and Hindi) into French, how does the file currently marked as "Forced" get disabled so that we do not have both English and French text on the screen when a viewer wishes to see the French subtitles?
Confused as this all seems to be viewing app controlled and there is not really a standard. Or is there?
Thanks,
Jef
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Tuesday, October 29, 2024
Was kostet ein Wasserspender für Ihre Firma?
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