Re: [Avid-L2] Mac Avid 5.1 Triple Channel Memory?

(typo…my machines are 2.93ghz CPUs)

dave

On Aug 28, 2021, at 7:05 PM, John Moore <bigfish@pacbell.net> wrote:

I'm starting to use baselight plug in and BCC Pan and Zoom on online.  I have a mid 2012 12 core 5.1 64 GB Ram, CPU upgraded to 3.46GHZ, Radeon RX 580 8GB vram.  I found that I get crashes saying something about out of memory when rendering an upper track safe color effect.  I figured it had to do with the way BCC Pan and Zoom caches the stills into Ram memory but that's just a guess on my part.  It also seems when there are more BCC Pan and Zoom effects not linked to the stills I get the crash.  Once all are linked I can render the entire sequence without a crash. 

I might not be able to figure out what's really going on but the whole Triple Channel Memory thing, where Macs more efficiently address memory with three banks of ram than 4 has been brought up here.  Now I have 8 slots of 8GB,  It sounds like it would be more efficient and more capacity to go to 6 16 GB to get 96GB.  Of course my thought of more is better and why not go to 8x16GB for 128 GB total.  In googling this came up:

"I've contacted OWC and they said this:

Your computer is a triple channel computer. I can't begin to discuss what you would go for on this one as I have no information on how you would be using this computer. But there is one rule of thumb to fall back on. More memory trumps memory addressing".

I might not notice any difference but curious what value increased memory access with Triple Channel compares to having more actual memory.  The Above quote from OWC makes me think overall 128 might be a better idea.

 

John Moore Barking Trout Productions Studio City, CA bigfish@pacbell.net

Re: [Avid-L2] Mac Avid 5.1 Triple Channel Memory?

Hey John,

As I believe you are already on the Mac Pro Upgrade group on Facebook, you should be familiar with the flame war that comes up EVERY time this is mentioned.

There is the die hard camp that says (correctly) that the fastest operation is using only 6 of your 8 banks, all with matching memory of the same type, brand and lot.

However, I have also seen other sites that say that most real world testing only shows about a 2 to 4 percent reduction in speed when using the 4th bank of RAM also populated with matching RAM.

One of the reasons I think that a lot of this hand wringing about how fast your tons of RAM work is the simple fact that these machines are based on a chipset and design that is over 10 years old.

I am a fan of the more RAM camp, and as such, both of my 5.1 machines (not upgraded as far as yours, they have the 2.03ghz dual 6 core CPUs, and no card cage) have 128GB of 1333MHz DDR3 RAM.

My main reason for running 128Gb RAM is that I do a lot of things at the same time, including zillions of tabs of Google Chrome, which is the most notorious memory hog program ever made.  (seriously, not exaggerating.)

I don't, however, do full blown online projects on my machines, so I can't give you a real world example of what does and doesn't work on mine…I still run them on High Sierra, so I am not on th bleeding edge like you.

One caveat, minor though it is…because the POST in the MacPro tests all your RAM every time you reboot, you will see longer boot times with more RAM, easily a full minute plus with the 128GB.

I have been running two MacPro 5,1 machines for a couple years with 128GB RAM and have no problems with them. (I run the fans faster with Macs Fan Control, to keep the heat down.)

My .02,

Dave Hogan,

Burbank, CA

On Aug 28, 2021, at 7:05 PM, John Moore <bigfish@pacbell.net> wrote:

I'm starting to use baselight plug in and BCC Pan and Zoom on online.  I have a mid 2012 12 core 5.1 64 GB Ram, CPU upgraded to 3.46GHZ, Radeon RX 580 8GB vram.  I found that I get crashes saying something about out of memory when rendering an upper track safe color effect.  I figured it had to do with the way BCC Pan and Zoom caches the stills into Ram memory but that's just a guess on my part.  It also seems when there are more BCC Pan and Zoom effects not linked to the stills I get the crash.  Once all are linked I can render the entire sequence without a crash. 

I might not be able to figure out what's really going on but the whole Triple Channel Memory thing, where Macs more efficiently address memory with three banks of ram than 4 has been brought up here.  Now I have 8 slots of 8GB,  It sounds like it would be more efficient and more capacity to go to 6 16 GB to get 96GB.  Of course my thought of more is better and why not go to 8x16GB for 128 GB total.  In googling this came up:

"I've contacted OWC and they said this:

Your computer is a triple channel computer. I can't begin to discuss what you would go for on this one as I have no information on how you would be using this computer. But there is one rule of thumb to fall back on. More memory trumps memory addressing".

I might not notice any difference but curious what value increased memory access with Triple Channel compares to having more actual memory.  The Above quote from OWC makes me think overall 128 might be a better idea.

 

John Moore Barking Trout Productions Studio City, CA bigfish@pacbell.net

[Avid-L2] Mac Avid 5.1 Triple Channel Memory?

I'm starting to use baselight plug in and BCC Pan and Zoom on online.  I have a mid 2012 12 core 5.1 64 GB Ram, CPU upgraded to 3.46GHZ, Radeon RX 580 8GB vram.  I found that I get crashes saying something about out of memory when rendering an upper track safe color effect.  I figured it had to do with the way BCC Pan and Zoom caches the stills into Ram memory but that's just a guess on my part.  It also seems when there are more BCC Pan and Zoom effects not linked to the stills I get the crash.  Once all are linked I can render the entire sequence without a crash. 

I might not be able to figure out what's really going on but the whole Triple Channel Memory thing, where Macs more efficiently address memory with three banks of ram than 4 has been brought up here.  Now I have 8 slots of 8GB,  It sounds like it would be more efficient and more capacity to go to 6 16 GB to get 96GB.  Of course my thought of more is better and why not go to 8x16GB for 128 GB total.  In googling this came up:

"I've contacted OWC and they said this:

Your computer is a triple channel computer. I can't begin to discuss what you would go for on this one as I have no information on how you would be using this computer. But there is one rule of thumb to fall back on. More memory trumps memory addressing".

I might not notice any difference but curious what value increased memory access with Triple Channel compares to having more actual memory.  The Above quote from OWC makes me think overall 128 might be a better idea.

 

John Moore Barking Trout Productions Studio City, CA bigfish@pacbell.net

Re: [Avid-L2] SDI output and HDMI client view

Excellent. I'm happy to be wrong. JB 

On Aug 27, 2021, at 3:39 PM, Lou Wirth <loutv@mindspring.com> wrote:

Turns out it defaulted to the mojo turned off on the timeline.  I found the Video Output tool grayed out so did research to tell me it doesn't see DX.  So took a look and saw it was off.  Now all good as SDI output works and I can adjust output to work in HDMI.

Thanks 

Lou

Lou Wirth Productions
3210 Kerner Boulevard
Suite 302
San Rafael, CA 94901
www.louwirth.com
415-706-8992p

On Aug 27, 2021, at 1:32 PM, JBeck <jb30343@windstream.net> wrote:

I don't think the current releases support Mojo DX. Can you revert to an earlier version. JB 

On Aug 27, 2021, at 2:46 PM, Lou Wirth <loutv@mindspring.com> wrote:

Hi

I've been living in Premiere land for the last 10 months but have kept up on upgrades for my Avid.  Today I have to resurrect an Avid doc.  Using Media Composer 2021.6 with a Mojo DX on a Mac Pro trash can.  

I open the project but can not get the normal HDMI output to my client monitor, nor do I get the SDI output to my Flanders.  The Flanders does flash some green noise on boot up of Avid but then goes black.   HDMI is out of Mac to client monitor and works for desktop and AE and Premiere, but goes black for Avid.

The only thing that has changed over the last 10 months is the upgrade to Composer.  Do I need to reset something in Avid?  Things have moved around so where do I even find the Video Output tool?

Thanks

Lou

Lou Wirth Productions
3210 Kerner Boulevard
Suite 302
San Rafael, CA 94901
www.louwirth.com
415-706-8992p

Re: [Avid-L2] SDI output and HDMI client view

Turns out it defaulted to the mojo turned off on the timeline.  I found the Video Output tool grayed out so did research to tell me it doesn't see DX.  So took a look and saw it was off.  Now all good as SDI output works and I can adjust output to work in HDMI.

Thanks 

Lou

Lou Wirth Productions
3210 Kerner Boulevard
Suite 302
San Rafael, CA 94901
www.louwirth.com
415-706-8992p

On Aug 27, 2021, at 1:32 PM, JBeck <jb30343@windstream.net> wrote:

I don't think the current releases support Mojo DX. Can you revert to an earlier version. JB 

On Aug 27, 2021, at 2:46 PM, Lou Wirth <loutv@mindspring.com> wrote:

Hi

I've been living in Premiere land for the last 10 months but have kept up on upgrades for my Avid.  Today I have to resurrect an Avid doc.  Using Media Composer 2021.6 with a Mojo DX on a Mac Pro trash can.  

I open the project but can not get the normal HDMI output to my client monitor, nor do I get the SDI output to my Flanders.  The Flanders does flash some green noise on boot up of Avid but then goes black.   HDMI is out of Mac to client monitor and works for desktop and AE and Premiere, but goes black for Avid.

The only thing that has changed over the last 10 months is the upgrade to Composer.  Do I need to reset something in Avid?  Things have moved around so where do I even find the Video Output tool?

Thanks

Lou

Lou Wirth Productions
3210 Kerner Boulevard
Suite 302
San Rafael, CA 94901
www.louwirth.com
415-706-8992p

Re: [Avid-L2] SDI output and HDMI client view

I don't think the current releases support Mojo DX. Can you revert to an earlier version. JB 

On Aug 27, 2021, at 2:46 PM, Lou Wirth <loutv@mindspring.com> wrote:

Hi

I've been living in Premiere land for the last 10 months but have kept up on upgrades for my Avid.  Today I have to resurrect an Avid doc.  Using Media Composer 2021.6 with a Mojo DX on a Mac Pro trash can.  

I open the project but can not get the normal HDMI output to my client monitor, nor do I get the SDI output to my Flanders.  The Flanders does flash some green noise on boot up of Avid but then goes black.   HDMI is out of Mac to client monitor and works for desktop and AE and Premiere, but goes black for Avid.

The only thing that has changed over the last 10 months is the upgrade to Composer.  Do I need to reset something in Avid?  Things have moved around so where do I even find the Video Output tool?

Thanks

Lou

Lou Wirth Productions
3210 Kerner Boulevard
Suite 302
San Rafael, CA 94901
www.louwirth.com
415-706-8992p

[Avid-L2] SDI output and HDMI client view

Hi

I've been living in Premiere land for the last 10 months but have kept up on upgrades for my Avid.  Today I have to resurrect an Avid doc.  Using Media Composer 2021.6 with a Mojo DX on a Mac Pro trash can.  

I open the project but can not get the normal HDMI output to my client monitor, nor do I get the SDI output to my Flanders.  The Flanders does flash some green noise on boot up of Avid but then goes black.   HDMI is out of Mac to client monitor and works for desktop and AE and Premiere, but goes black for Avid.

The only thing that has changed over the last 10 months is the upgrade to Composer.  Do I need to reset something in Avid?  Things have moved around so where do I even find the Video Output tool?

Thanks

Lou

Lou Wirth Productions
3210 Kerner Boulevard
Suite 302
San Rafael, CA 94901
www.louwirth.com
415-706-8992p

Re: [Avid-L2] Avid Perpetual License Price Increase?

Thanks Marianna for keeping in perspective that Avid is indeed adding a lot to Media Composer!  After disliking and avoiding the 2019 interface changes for a long time, once I actually jumped in and learned how it worked I love it now. I think that is another large change that has been added to MC recently and implemented very well in my opinion. I'm currently editing a project where I wanted to test how well the new Universal Media Engine works on native footage, including a lot of H.264 footage. I have to say, it's been great- in the past it was never possible to roll H.264 files at 240fps using AMA, the responsiveness of the UME clips has been very impressive, and most of the time I'm only editing from a USB3 hard drive on a 2019 Macbook Pro. Keep up the good work, I can't wait to see how the M1/M2 Macs works with a native implementation when it's ready.

Regards,

Ross

rfitts@ymail.com

On Friday, August 27, 2021, 06:38:38 AM PDT, Marianna <marianna.montague@avid.com> wrote:

Hello Andi

 

Here some if the items that has been introduced in the last year…

 

• Go to Next Event and Go to Previous Event
• Bin Status Bar Duration
• Dragging Clips to a Closed Bin and Closed Folder in Sidebar
• Improved Timeline Scrolling
• Updated Bin Setting
• Workspaces Load Last State
• Avid Titler+ Text in Clip Notes and EDLs
• Avid Titler+ All-In-One Text Box
• MC | Distributed Processing 2.0: New UI, export, mixdown, email notifications, worker and queue configuration
• MC | Enterprise – security: block input and output of media, disable timeline editing
• IMF Original and Supplemental Support
• Interface Brightness Setting Update
• Bin Status Bar
• New Highlight Colors
• Vertical Title Bar Improvements
• Mappable Sync Lock All Button
• Moving Segments in the Timeline
• Group Clip Name in Timeline Clip Text
• Find Bin
• PhraseFind and ScriptSync Farsi Support
• Transcode of Alpha Mattes
• H.265 Support
• Export Media Difference Between Sequences
• Avid Titler+ Updates
• Dragging Bin Content to an Open Bin in Bin Container Sidebar
• Mapping Bin Fast Menu Commands to Buttons
• Floating Panel Windows
• Updated Interface Settings
• Bin Brightness Updates
• Finding a User Profile
• Additional Languages for PhraseFind and ScriptSync
• Custom Color Space for Exported MOV, MP4, and OpenEXR
• AAC Audio Format for Exported MOV and MP4
• Audio Mixer Update
• Additional ACES Support
• Pro  Res RAW support
• Bin Find and Replace
• Bulk Edit Profile Support
• Changing the Font in the Source Browser Window
• New Interface Setting
• Quality Settings for Mixdown
• Refresh Sequences Update
• Displaying Titler+ Titles in Frame Views
• Variable Frame Rate Media Support
• Timeline Segment Selection Info in The Inspector
• Dock or Tab the Settings Window
• Improved Lassoing in Frame View
• Apple ProRes Support
• macOS Catalina Support
• Avid Universal Media Engine (UME)
• Avid S1 Control Surface
• Avid MediaFiles Folder Location
• Resolution Name Changes
• New Select Project Window
• Timeline Sequence Map
• Bulk Edit
• Blank Panel
• Effect Palette Update
• Select Muted Clips
• Avid Titler+ Changes and fixes
• Interface Settings Update
• Trim Settings Update
• New ACES Output Transforms
• Mask Margin Presets
• Improved Color Correction Control
• Strip Silence
• Mapping Buttons at the Bottom of the Timeline

 

Marianna

 

Marianna Montague
Sr. Director, Customer Success Management 
Customer Experience & Customer Success
Avid - Remote
marianna.montague@avid.com 
t +1 (978) 640-5215   |  m +1 (813) 493-6800 

 

Re: [Avid-L2] Avid Perpetual License Price Increase?

Hello Andi

 

Here some if the items that has been introduced in the last year…

 

• Go to Next Event and Go to Previous Event
• Bin Status Bar Duration
• Dragging Clips to a Closed Bin and Closed Folder in Sidebar
• Improved Timeline Scrolling
• Updated Bin Setting
• Workspaces Load Last State
• Avid Titler+ Text in Clip Notes and EDLs
• Avid Titler+ All-In-One Text Box
• MC | Distributed Processing 2.0: New UI, export, mixdown, email notifications, worker and queue configuration
• MC | Enterprise – security: block input and output of media, disable timeline editing
• IMF Original and Supplemental Support
• Interface Brightness Setting Update
• Bin Status Bar
• New Highlight Colors
• Vertical Title Bar Improvements
• Mappable Sync Lock All Button
• Moving Segments in the Timeline
• Group Clip Name in Timeline Clip Text
• Find Bin
• PhraseFind and ScriptSync Farsi Support
• Transcode of Alpha Mattes
• H.265 Support
• Export Media Difference Between Sequences
• Avid Titler+ Updates
• Dragging Bin Content to an Open Bin in Bin Container Sidebar
• Mapping Bin Fast Menu Commands to Buttons
• Floating Panel Windows
• Updated Interface Settings
• Bin Brightness Updates
• Finding a User Profile
• Additional Languages for PhraseFind and ScriptSync
• Custom Color Space for Exported MOV, MP4, and OpenEXR
• AAC Audio Format for Exported MOV and MP4
• Audio Mixer Update
• Additional ACES Support
• Pro  Res RAW support
• Bin Find and Replace
• Bulk Edit Profile Support
• Changing the Font in the Source Browser Window
• New Interface Setting
• Quality Settings for Mixdown
• Refresh Sequences Update
• Displaying Titler+ Titles in Frame Views
• Variable Frame Rate Media Support
• Timeline Segment Selection Info in The Inspector
• Dock or Tab the Settings Window
• Improved Lassoing in Frame View
• Apple ProRes Support
• macOS Catalina Support
• Avid Universal Media Engine (UME)
• Avid S1 Control Surface
• Avid MediaFiles Folder Location
• Resolution Name Changes
• New Select Project Window
• Timeline Sequence Map
• Bulk Edit
• Blank Panel
• Effect Palette Update
• Select Muted Clips
• Avid Titler+ Changes and fixes
• Interface Settings Update
• Trim Settings Update
• New ACES Output Transforms
• Mask Margin Presets
• Improved Color Correction Control
• Strip Silence
• Mapping Buttons at the Bottom of the Timeline

 

Marianna

 

Marianna Montague
Sr. Director, Customer Success Management 
Customer Experience & Customer Success
Avid - Remote
marianna.montague@avid.com 
t +1 (978) 640-5215   |  m +1 (813) 493-6800 

 

Re: [Avid-L2] Avid Perpetual License Price Increase?

Here's what a friend of mine did.
He didn't renew is perpetual support, keeping the software active at the level he was, forever.
He used a different identity and purchased an Ultimate subscription so he can get the latest upgrade.
Now he's got two licenses. One for transcoding, etc. One for editing.
If I needed two licenses...

On 26/08/2021 12:09, Dennis Degan via groups.io wrote:

Marianna,

I too have been faithfully sticking to the perpetual license, renewing each year for updates.  But since I don't need Avid for work anymore, I had been considering dropping the perpetual license.  With the price increase, I should have either: (1) ended my yearly payment for support and updates or (2) gone over to the subscription side.  I chose to maintain the perpetual license, not just for a year, but for 2 more years at the current price.  Maybe I'm a fool, but I like having the perpetual license.

Question for you: Since I've had a perpetual license for about 5 years now, if I convert it to a subscription and in 2 years I stop the subscription, will my software cease to work?  If true, after having a perpetual license for so long, that would convince me to NOT get a subscription and simply allow my perpetual license run out of support/upgrades after the 2 years I just purchased.  Because it would be better to have a working perpetual license and no support/upgrades than to have no working software at all after 2 years.  Am I crazy?  (Don't answer . . . . )

Dennis Degan, Video Editor-Consultant-Knowledge Bank

        Sent from my iPhone 6 Plus

On Aug 26, 2021, at 10:06 AM, Marianna <marianna.montague@avid.com> wrote:

Hi again Karl

 

I know you aren't flaming here but I do want to outline what the benefits of subscription are:

• Lower price/lower cost of entry
• More options for pricing (pay up front, get a discount (MonthtoMonth, AnnualPaidMonthly)
• More features
• Includes support (phone and web based ) and upgrades
• More options depending on the model
• It's more than likely we continue to drive more features to subscription only offerings
• MSFT raised the price of perpetual for 2021, reduced the length it will support it, upgrades are limited and confusing and it's still pretty much an island.
• Avid offers a perpetual option for reasons you outlined; some users have a specific need for a perpetual license.  It's a different product from subscription
• Also, subscription offerings do not have to stay connected to the internet

 

I understand you have religion over perpetual products, it's why we offer a perpetual version.  But yes, we want users on subscription. It's providing consistent revenue so we can continue to develop our products and add features for our users, offers so many options for customers on options for pricing and features they want to choose when they need them. 

 

😊 again not being difficult on my end either just trying to articulate the benefits too.

Marianna

Marianna Montague
Sr. Director, Customer Success Management 
Customer Experience & Customer Success
Avid - Remote
marianna.montague@avid.com 
t +1 (978) 640-5215   |  m +1 (813) 493-6800 

 

Re: [Avid-L2] Avid Perpetual License Price Increase?

One more caveat: Some perpetual licenses allow you to run older versions of MC. Subscriptions (new ones) won't let you use anything older than 2018.9.

https://avid.secure.force.com/pkb/articles/en_US/compatibility/Media-Composer-2019-x-Licensing-Backwards-Compatiblity-Matrix

On 26 Aug 2021, at 21:05, Mark Block via groups.io <eatapc=me.com@groups.io> wrote:

On Thu, Aug 26, 2021 at 02:04 PM, Job ter Burg (L2) wrote:

A. CROSSGRADE to MC Ultimate with a 2yr discount, but you lose your perpetual license

B. KEEP your Perpetual license (and let it lapse) and start a new MC Ultimate subscription (no discount, but you still keep perpetual)

C. STAY on Perpetual and keep paying for the renewals until you don't need them anymore.

Geat explanation. Thanks. Since I own Symphony (and my Perpetual license doesn't expire until next summer), I'll keep it and let it expire. Am I to understand that if I then buy the lower-cost standard subscription, I can continue to use the Symphony license I own? That would be very nice. As a freelancer working from a home office, I don't need shared bins/projects. 

Re: [Avid-L2] Avid Perpetual License Price Increase?

This is what I was told, yes by Raff. "The activation code for the software option can be deactivated/activate via AvidLink to pair to other system IDs."

On 26 Aug 2021, at 21:05, Mark Block via groups.io <eatapc=me.com@groups.io> wrote:

Am I to understand that if I then buy the lower-cost standard subscription, I can continue to use the Symphony license I own?

Re: [Avid-L2] Avid Perpetual License Price Increase?

On Thu, Aug 26, 2021 at 02:04 PM, Job ter Burg (L2) wrote:

A. CROSSGRADE to MC Ultimate with a 2yr discount, but you lose your perpetual license

B. KEEP your Perpetual license (and let it lapse) and start a new MC Ultimate subscription (no discount, but you still keep perpetual)

C. STAY on Perpetual and keep paying for the renewals until you don’t need them anymore.

Geat explanation. Thanks. Since I own Symphony (and my Perpetual license doesn't expire until next summer), I'll keep it and let it expire. Am I to understand that if I then buy the lower-cost standard subscription, I can continue to use the Symphony license I own? That would be very nice. As a freelancer working from a home office, I don't need shared bins/projects. 

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Re: [Avid-L2] Avid Perpetual License Price Increase?

Completely agree, Job.

I moved to subscription, it just feels easier for me in my particular situation. As an offline editor, not being a finisher, the toolset I need for features is pretty specific, if not modest.

But I expect that soon enough we'll be offlining at what will be, for all practical purposes, finishing resolutions, and that the software/hardware requirements will evolve. Does the subscription model service that evolution? I assume that it will.

Again, in post there is very little one-size-fits-all. There all kinds of us doing all kids of different things, in features, in TV (all utterly blurred and undifferentiated now), in commercials, in docs, in industrials, in YouTube, etc. So how in the world is a single company (ie. Avid), supposed to service every single divergent person's individual ideal of how the pricing model should be?

DD

David Dodson

davaldod@gmail.com

On Aug 26, 2021, at 11:50 AM, Job ter Burg (L2) <Job_L2@terburg.com> wrote:

Gary,

Why would perpetual owners stop paying for renewals if and when Avid keep delivering a solid product — the very reason you bring up for folks renewing subscriptions? I don't see the difference. Letting a perpetual license lapse before renewing it for at least four years just doesn't make any financial sense to anyone, unless one would stop needing/using MC — which would also cause one to stop subscribing just as well.

Also, I feel it is all very much focused on misguided shareholders, not end users — you know, the people whose business you need to please those shareholders. No one has been able to explain what the benefit of SaaS is to the existing end user of MC Perpetual, and I cannot think of any. 

I like having the choice and I'm happy Avid still gives us the choice. That said, they give us so many choices that it is extremely hard to navigate all the options for existing perpetual owners.

Job

On 25 Aug 2021, at 16:11, Gary <gary@videoguys.com> wrote:

 they know that for every 1,000 perpetual owners, only a percentage will pay the renewal and each year that drops.

 

With a subscription model they lower the cost of entry and as long as they keep delivering a solid product that meets the needs of their users, they should have a very high renewal rate.

Re: [Avid-L2] Avid Perpetual License Price Increase?

Gary,

Why would perpetual owners stop paying for renewals if and when Avid keep delivering a solid product — the very reason you bring up for folks renewing subscriptions? I don't see the difference. Letting a perpetual license lapse before renewing it for at least four years just doesn't make any financial sense to anyone, unless one would stop needing/using MC — which would also cause one to stop subscribing just as well.

Also, I feel it is all very much focused on misguided shareholders, not end users — you know, the people whose business you need to please those shareholders. No one has been able to explain what the benefit of SaaS is to the existing end user of MC Perpetual, and I cannot think of any. 

I like having the choice and I'm happy Avid still gives us the choice. That said, they give us so many choices that it is extremely hard to navigate all the options for existing perpetual owners.

Job

On 25 Aug 2021, at 16:11, Gary <gary@videoguys.com> wrote:

 they know that for every 1,000 perpetual owners, only a percentage will pay the renewal and each year that drops.

 

With a subscription model they lower the cost of entry and as long as they keep delivering a solid product that meets the needs of their users, they should have a very high renewal rate.

Re: [Avid-L2] Avid Perpetual License Price Increase?

Hi Dennis,

If I can weigh in:

IMHO, the only reasons to convert your existing perpetual license into an MC Ultimate Subscription are:

- you do NOT already own the Symphony option, PhraseFind option, and/or ScriptSync option — and do want/need those, AND you need shared projects/bins.

If you do want to move to Ultimate, you can either 

A. CROSSGRADE (which gets you a 2-yr Ultimate Subscription at a discount, but you lose your perpetual license

B. KEEP your perpetual license (and let it lapse, or not) and start a new Ultimate subscription (at the regular price)

If you DO already own all the add-on options you want/need (SY/PhF/SS), even if you let your Perpetual MC lapse, you still own those add-ons, so you would not necessarily need to move to MC Ultimate, but you could just use your add-ons with an MC Standard Subscription (239/yr paid upfront). There is NO CROSSGRADE offer from Perpetual to Standard Sunbscription. So you could just KEEP your perpetual licens (and let it lapse), and as soon as you want/need the latest version of MC, just start a Standard Subscription (which is less than half of what MC Ultimate costs).

HOWEVER…: Do note that MC Standard does NOT support shared bins/projects. If you need shared bins/projects, either

A. CROSSGRADE to MC Ultimate with a 2yr discount, but you lose your perpetual license

B. KEEP your Perpetual license (and let it lapse) and start a new MC Ultimate subscription (no discount, but you still keep perpetual)

C. STAY on Perpetual and keep paying for the renewals until you don't need them anymore.

My 2 cts.

Job

On 26 Aug 2021, at 18:09, Dennis Degan via groups.io <DennyD1=verizon.net@groups.io> wrote:

Marianna,

I too have been faithfully sticking to the perpetual license, renewing each year for updates.  But since I don't need Avid for work anymore, I had been considering dropping the perpetual license.  With the price increase, I should have either: (1) ended my yearly payment for support and updates or (2) gone over to the subscription side.  I chose to maintain the perpetual license, not just for a year, but for 2 more years at the current price.  Maybe I'm a fool, but I like having the perpetual license.

Question for you: Since I've had a perpetual license for about 5 years now, if I convert it to a subscription and in 2 years I stop the subscription, will my software cease to work?  If true, after having a perpetual license for so long, that would convince me to NOT get a subscription and simply allow my perpetual license run out of support/upgrades after the 2 years I just purchased.  Because it would be better to have a working perpetual license and no support/upgrades than to have no working software at all after 2 years.  Am I crazy?  (Don't answer . . . . )

Dennis Degan, Video Editor-Consultant-Knowledge Bank

        Sent from my iPhone 6 Plus

Re: [Avid-L2] MC Subscription - Autorenewal vs reseller renewa

I just went through the same problem, purchased a renewal from Videoguys, but could not enter the renewal code.

The problem was that my account was set to "auto renew".

Once I turned off "auto renew" I was able to enter the renewal code with no problem.  (Thanks to Avid chat).

Ed

Re: [Avid-L2] Avid Perpetual License Price Increase?

What Dennis said.  --J.B.

Dennis Degan via groups.io wrote:
> Marianna,
>
> I too have been faithfully sticking to the perpetual license, renewing
> each year for updates.  But since I don't need Avid for work anymore,
> I had been considering dropping the perpetual license.  With the price
> increase, I should have either: (1) ended my yearly payment for
> support and updates or (2) gone over to the subscription side.  I
> chose to maintain the perpetual license, not just for a year, but for
> 2 more years at the current price.  Maybe I'm a fool, but I like
> having the perpetual license.
> Question for you: Since I've had a perpetual license for about 5 years
> now, if I convert it to a subscription and in 2 years I stop the
> subscription, will my software cease to work?  If true, after having a
> perpetual license for so long, that would convince me to NOT get a
> subscription and simply allow my perpetual license run out of
> support/upgrades after the 2 years I just purchased.  Because it would
> be better to have a working perpetual license and no support/upgrades
> than to have no working software at all after 2 years.  Am I crazy?
>  (Don't answer . . . . )
>
> Dennis Degan, Video Editor-Consultant-Knowledge Bank
>         Sent from my iPhone 6 Plus
>




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Re: [Avid-L2] Avid Perpetual License Price Increase?

Marianna,

I too have been faithfully sticking to the perpetual license, renewing each year for updates.  But since I don't need Avid for work anymore, I had been considering dropping the perpetual license.  With the price increase, I should have either: (1) ended my yearly payment for support and updates or (2) gone over to the subscription side.  I chose to maintain the perpetual license, not just for a year, but for 2 more years at the current price.  Maybe I'm a fool, but I like having the perpetual license.

Question for you: Since I've had a perpetual license for about 5 years now, if I convert it to a subscription and in 2 years I stop the subscription, will my software cease to work?  If true, after having a perpetual license for so long, that would convince me to NOT get a subscription and simply allow my perpetual license run out of support/upgrades after the 2 years I just purchased.  Because it would be better to have a working perpetual license and no support/upgrades than to have no working software at all after 2 years.  Am I crazy?  (Don't answer . . . . )

Dennis Degan, Video Editor-Consultant-Knowledge Bank

        Sent from my iPhone 6 Plus

On Aug 26, 2021, at 10:06 AM, Marianna <marianna.montague@avid.com> wrote:

Hi again Karl

 

I know you aren't flaming here but I do want to outline what the benefits of subscription are:

• Lower price/lower cost of entry
• More options for pricing (pay up front, get a discount (MonthtoMonth, AnnualPaidMonthly)
• More features
• Includes support (phone and web based ) and upgrades
• More options depending on the model
• It's more than likely we continue to drive more features to subscription only offerings
• MSFT raised the price of perpetual for 2021, reduced the length it will support it, upgrades are limited and confusing and it's still pretty much an island.
• Avid offers a perpetual option for reasons you outlined; some users have a specific need for a perpetual license.  It's a different product from subscription
• Also, subscription offerings do not have to stay connected to the internet

 

I understand you have religion over perpetual products, it's why we offer a perpetual version.  But yes, we want users on subscription. It's providing consistent revenue so we can continue to develop our products and add features for our users, offers so many options for customers on options for pricing and features they want to choose when they need them. 

 

😊 again not being difficult on my end either just trying to articulate the benefits too.

Marianna

Marianna Montague
Sr. Director, Customer Success Management 
Customer Experience & Customer Success
Avid - Remote
marianna.montague@avid.com 
t +1 (978) 640-5215   |  m +1 (813) 493-6800 

 

Re: [Avid-L2] Avid Perpetual License Price Increase?

Hi again Karl

 

I know you aren't flaming here but I do want to outline what the benefits of subscription are:

• Lower price/lower cost of entry
• More options for pricing (pay up front, get a discount (MonthtoMonth, AnnualPaidMonthly)
• More features
• Includes support (phone and web based ) and upgrades
• More options depending on the model
• It's more than likely we continue to drive more features to subscription only offerings
• MSFT raised the price of perpetual for 2021, reduced the length it will support it, upgrades are limited and confusing and it's still pretty much an island.
• Avid offers a perpetual option for reasons you outlined; some users have a specific need for a perpetual license.  It's a different product from subscription
• Also, subscription offerings do not have to stay connected to the internet

 

I understand you have religion over perpetual products, it's why we offer a perpetual version.  But yes, we want users on subscription. It's providing consistent revenue so we can continue to develop our products and add features for our users, offers so many options for customers on options for pricing and features they want to choose when they need them. 

 

😊 again not being difficult on my end either just trying to articulate the benefits too.

Marianna

Marianna Montague
Sr. Director, Customer Success Management 
Customer Experience & Customer Success
Avid - Remote
marianna.montague@avid.com 
t +1 (978) 640-5215   |  m +1 (813) 493-6800 

 

Re: [Avid-L2] Avid Perpetual License Price Increase?

The issue I have is not so much the price increase but the lack of product development. Adobe is pushing updates all the time, often big ones. Blackmagic's pace of development is crazy. I don't feel like I'm getting my money's worth out of Avid. Improvements to audio? No. Improvements to colour corrector? No. M1 support? No. Improvements to paint tools? No. Working title tool? No.
Minor updates, cosmetic changes and sometimes nothing (no 2021.7 or 2021.8 it seems?). I'm not comfortable paying every month for that.
Andi

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Re: [Avid-L2] Avid Perpetual License Price Increase?

Hello Marianna,

I'm not trying to flame Avid, or you in this reply.   This is me, a customer, expressing my personal feelings about a product I have used for a long time.  And, while the product itself isn't going through a paradigm shift, the pricing and delivery of that product is evolving into something that will eventually be unacceptable in my business model.

So if I shouldn't feel coerced to migrate to the subscription model by rates approaching half the price of what I would pay to stay on my perpetual licenses, then perhaps I should be shocked that I'm being forced to pay nearly twice as much for less of a product. 

It's the same software.  Why can't they coexist at reasonable approximations of cost to each other?  Those willing to expose themselves to the risks associated with a migration to SaaS may do so, while those who do not want those risks can continue with a proven working solution.

You say customers benefit from a subscription.  I'm still waiting to hear sound reasons of how I would benefit from a migration to a subscription.  You didn't provide any.  The only reasons I've heard were given by VideoGuy's Gary in his webinar yesterday and those were (verbatim):
Advantage of subscription:
- You are constantly upgraded to the latest version of the software.  (How is that not valid for perpetual users with support?  And, if this implies auto upgrades, who wants those, especially in the middle of a project?!)
- It’s always available for you.  (Again, how is this not valid for perpetual users?)
- You know what your price is.  (What price guarantees have been given for either licensing option?)
- You don’t have the big up-front starting cost of buying the software for $1,499 or $1,999 going forward.  (Why the price difference for the same software?  I have a long history of renewing my perpetual licenses diligently every year, no differently than a subscription user would)
- Ultimate subscription gets you all the other tools: PhraseFind, ScriptSync, Symphony.  (I already have Symphony on all my seats, don't need the others)
- The reason the folks at Avid are doing this is they really want to get you on subscriptions.  (Yes, I keep hearing that.)

You mentioned Adobe and dozens of other companies who have moved to the subscription model.  Perhaps Avid should take a hint from Microsoft, they do after all have a slightly larger presence in this model.  Microsoft will soon be offering a perpetual release version of Office 2021 to users who want to reduce their online exposure and, surprisingly, reduce their "subscription fatigue" (yes a new term has entered our vernacular).

Avid will do what it wants to do, as will I.  Neither of us will lose sleep or very much money over the others decisions.

Cheers,
Karl Knowles

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Re: [Avid-L2] Avid Perpetual License Price Increase?

Karl:

 

You said:   Gary, you confirmed my point that Avid has established a pricing structure that at face value is losing money.  The $275/year price you detailed is over $100 less than the current perpetual renewal and close to half what that perpetual renewal will be in one week.  Avid is coercing people to subscription with significantly lower prices.  In my original post I asked "why?".  Considered alone that's contrary to basic capitalism.  Something is motivating this aggressive loss-leader migration that isn't being discussed.  That "something" obviously has greater value than what they are losing with each subscription renewal versus what they would gain from each perpetual renewal.  I'm curious what that is.  Cheers, Karl Knowles

 

Well……  What you are saying is not true at all. A majority of Media Composer users are now on subscription including many major enterprise customers.  You can look at our earnings call for data proof points.  We've been offering customers choice of licensing options for many years now, but most have moved to subscriptions.  There is hidden data here.  Customers and Avid benefit from subscription offerings but don't look at Avid for information here, look at Adobe and dozens of other companies for data.  Some companies that offer only perpetual have different business models, where software is a compliment to other means of revenue such as hardware and other things. 

 

Marianna

Marianna Montague
Sr. Director, Customer Success Management 
Customer Experience & Customer Success
Avid - Remote
marianna.montague@avid.com 
t +1 (978) 640-5215   |  m +1 (813) 493-6800 

 

Re: [Avid-L2] REST IN PEACE, ARTHUR WILLIAMS

thanks Marianna, I think he was the first or among the very first in NYC to purchase avid media composers I think they were called film composers and boy they cost a lot of money!

Owen

On Aug 23, 2021, at 6:32 PM, Marianna <marianna.montague@avid.com> wrote:



RIP Arthur….  Another one of the best is gone but not forgotten!

Marianna

 

Marianna Montague
Sr. Director, Customer Success Management 
Customer Experience & Customer Success
Avid - Remote
marianna.montague@avid.com 
t +1 (978) 640-5215   |  m +1 (813) 493-6800