Saturday, April 7, 2012

Re: [Avid-L2] WAS: Biscardi makes his decision Now: The future of Symphony

NO. keep the thread intact.
owen


On Apr 7, 2012, at 7:39 PM, Greg Huson wrote:

> Can we please change the subject line? This has now veered far enough off the original topic.
>
> gh
> ----------------------------------------------------
> Greg Huson
> Secret Headquarters, Inc
> Post Production / Production
> Culver City, CA
> 323 677 2092
> www.DigitalServiceStation.com
> greg (at) SecretHQ.com
> www.SecretHQ.com
>
>
>
>
> On Apr 7, 2012, at 2:06 PM, oliverpetersvidy wrote:
>
>>> Steve Hullfish wrote:
>>> ...The diversion into "smart tools" may have
>>> been welcome to some....
>>> ...That's obviously a good thing and something
>>> that brings money and editors into the fold...
>>
>> Ironically, the unforeseen part was FCP X. I think plenty of folks would have jumped ship from FCP 7 to MC because of FCP X, regardless of whether Smart Tool existed or not.
>>
>> - Oliver
>>
>>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
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[FWD: RE: [Avid-L2] Simple Question]

 

After my sarcastic remark, It sounds like what you might want is a PDF
or flash web site - like the kind that Encore can generate from a DVD or
blu-ray authoring file... Haven't done it myself, so no expertise here,
but I feel like that's where you should be looking...

GH
-------------------------------------
Greg Huson
Chief
Greg (at) SecretHQ.com
www.SecretHQ.com
DigitalServiceStation.com



-------- Original Message --------
Subject: [Avid-L2] Simple Question
From: John Hollands <johnhollands22@gmail.com>
Date: Sat, April 07, 2012 6:44 pm
To: Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com

Hey, this ought to be easy for you top-level guys.

We have new Owners, we just shot some stuff on Red Epic, 5D and EX-1.

We've transferred all the footage and catalogued it into groups.

We're feeling the Client might want to use footage in the future for
different purposes and we'd be keen to sell it to them - however, they
need a way to preview it and preview future shoots, simply and easily.

The Client is not a ProdCo or TV Station or Ad Agency, they are just a
manufacturer with no particular video (or computer) knowledge.

The people who will look at the material are middle-to-top Management
and all the ignorance that entails... (see footnote)

HERE'S THE BRIEF (IN MY WORDS):

"Produce a DVD with all the footage on it, in good enough quality so
they can see how good it is. And make this DVD with a menu so any one
of
hundreds of clips can be accessed and played - not a video DVD because
that's too low quality - and this DVD has to play automatically in
every
computer under every Operating System no matter how old the computer
and
it has to do this - playing perfectly - with no human intervention
whatsoever."

Should be pretty easy for all you Tekko-Heads, yes?

So, just tell me and I'll make the DVD.

john

footnote: once an Agency Owner bragged to me he'd finally figured out
how to forward emails. "Well done" says I.
"Wanna see me do one?" he asks. "Sure"
Turning his head, he shouts "Michael!"
His twenty-something PA comes running.
"Michael, forward this email" "Sure thing, where's it going?"



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[FWD: RE: [Avid-L2] Simple Question]

 


Isn't 'tekko-heads' that sci-fi novella series by William Shatner?

gh

-------------------------------------
Greg Huson
Chief
Greg (at) SecretHQ.com
www.SecretHQ.com
DigitalServiceStation.com



-------- Original Message --------
Subject: [Avid-L2] Simple Question
From: John Hollands <johnhollands22@gmail.com>
Date: Sat, April 07, 2012 6:44 pm
To: Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com

Hey, this ought to be easy for you top-level guys.

We have new Owners, we just shot some stuff on Red Epic, 5D and EX-1.

We've transferred all the footage and catalogued it into groups.

We're feeling the Client might want to use footage in the future for
different purposes and we'd be keen to sell it to them - however, they
need a way to preview it and preview future shoots, simply and easily.

The Client is not a ProdCo or TV Station or Ad Agency, they are just a
manufacturer with no particular video (or computer) knowledge.

The people who will look at the material are middle-to-top Management
and all the ignorance that entails... (see footnote)

HERE'S THE BRIEF (IN MY WORDS):

"Produce a DVD with all the footage on it, in good enough quality so
they can see how good it is. And make this DVD with a menu so any one
of
hundreds of clips can be accessed and played - not a video DVD because
that's too low quality - and this DVD has to play automatically in
every
computer under every Operating System no matter how old the computer
and
it has to do this - playing perfectly - with no human intervention
whatsoever."

Should be pretty easy for all you Tekko-Heads, yes?

So, just tell me and I'll make the DVD.

john

footnote: once an Agency Owner bragged to me he'd finally figured out
how to forward emails. "Well done" says I.
"Wanna see me do one?" he asks. "Sure"
Turning his head, he shouts "Michael!"
His twenty-something PA comes running.
"Michael, forward this email" "Sure thing, where's it going?"



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Re: [Avid-L2] Simple Question

 

A dvd is standard def at best, but will play anywhere

Jim Gilson <gilsonjamesj@aol.com> wrote:

They'll steal it anyway, unless you watermark it.

John Hollands <johnhollands22@gmail.com> wrote:

  Hey, this ought to be easy for you top-level guys.

We have new Owners, we just shot some stuff on Red Epic, 5D and EX-1.

We've transferred all the footage and catalogued it into groups.

We're feeling the Client might want to use footage in the future for
different purposes and we'd be keen to sell it to them - however, they
need a way to preview it and preview future shoots, simply and easily.

The Client is not a ProdCo or TV Station or Ad Agency, they are just a
manufacturer with no particular video (or computer) knowledge.

The people who will look at the material are middle-to-top Management
and all the ignorance that entails... (see footnote)

HERE'S THE BRIEF (IN MY WORDS):

"Produce a DVD with all the footage on it, in good enough quality so
they can see how good it is. And make this DVD with a menu so any one of
hundreds of clips can be accessed and played - not a video DVD because
that's too low quality - and this DVD has to play automatically in every
computer under every Operating System no matter how old the computer and
it has to do this - playing perfectly - with no human intervention
whatsoever."

Should be pretty easy for all you Tekko-Heads, yes?

So, just tell me and I'll make the DVD.

john

footnote: once an Agency Owner bragged to me he'd finally figured out
how to forward emails. "Well done" says I.
"Wanna see me do one?" he asks. "Sure"
Turning his head, he shouts "Michael!"
His twenty-something PA comes running.
"Michael, forward this email" "Sure thing, where's it going?"

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Re: [Avid-L2] Simple Question

 

They'll steal it anyway, unless you watermark it.

John Hollands <johnhollands22@gmail.com> wrote:

  Hey, this ought to be easy for you top-level guys.

We have new Owners, we just shot some stuff on Red Epic, 5D and EX-1.

We've transferred all the footage and catalogued it into groups.

We're feeling the Client might want to use footage in the future for
different purposes and we'd be keen to sell it to them - however, they
need a way to preview it and preview future shoots, simply and easily.

The Client is not a ProdCo or TV Station or Ad Agency, they are just a
manufacturer with no particular video (or computer) knowledge.

The people who will look at the material are middle-to-top Management
and all the ignorance that entails... (see footnote)

HERE'S THE BRIEF (IN MY WORDS):

"Produce a DVD with all the footage on it, in good enough quality so
they can see how good it is. And make this DVD with a menu so any one of
hundreds of clips can be accessed and played - not a video DVD because
that's too low quality - and this DVD has to play automatically in every
computer under every Operating System no matter how old the computer and
it has to do this - playing perfectly - with no human intervention
whatsoever."

Should be pretty easy for all you Tekko-Heads, yes?

So, just tell me and I'll make the DVD.

john

footnote: once an Agency Owner bragged to me he'd finally figured out
how to forward emails. "Well done" says I.
"Wanna see me do one?" he asks. "Sure"
Turning his head, he shouts "Michael!"
His twenty-something PA comes running.
"Michael, forward this email" "Sure thing, where's it going?"

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

__._,_.___
Recent Activity:
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.

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[Avid-L2] Simple Question

 

Hey, this ought to be easy for you top-level guys.

We have new Owners, we just shot some stuff on Red Epic, 5D and EX-1.

We've transferred all the footage and catalogued it into groups.

We're feeling the Client might want to use footage in the future for
different purposes and we'd be keen to sell it to them - however, they
need a way to preview it and preview future shoots, simply and easily.

The Client is not a ProdCo or TV Station or Ad Agency, they are just a
manufacturer with no particular video (or computer) knowledge.

The people who will look at the material are middle-to-top Management
and all the ignorance that entails... (see footnote)

HERE'S THE BRIEF (IN MY WORDS):

"Produce a DVD with all the footage on it, in good enough quality so
they can see how good it is. And make this DVD with a menu so any one of
hundreds of clips can be accessed and played - not a video DVD because
that's too low quality - and this DVD has to play automatically in every
computer under every Operating System no matter how old the computer and
it has to do this - playing perfectly - with no human intervention
whatsoever."

Should be pretty easy for all you Tekko-Heads, yes?

So, just tell me and I'll make the DVD.

john

footnote: once an Agency Owner bragged to me he'd finally figured out
how to forward emails. "Well done" says I.
"Wanna see me do one?" he asks. "Sure"
Turning his head, he shouts "Michael!"
His twenty-something PA comes running.
"Michael, forward this email" "Sure thing, where's it going?"

__._,_.___
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Search the official Complete Avid-L archives at:   http://archives.bengrosser.com/avid/
.

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[Avid-L2] Re: Now: Huson changed the subject WAS:… oh I forget...

 



--- In Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com, Greg Huson <Greg@...> wrote:
>
> Can we please change the subject line? This has now veered far enough off the original topic.
>
> gh
> ----------------------------------------------------
> Greg Huson
> Secret Headquarters, Inc
> Post Production / Production
> Culver City, CA
> 323 677 2092
> www.DigitalServiceStation.com
> greg (at) SecretHQ.com
> www.SecretHQ.com
>
>
>
>
> On Apr 7, 2012, at 2:06 PM, oliverpetersvidy wrote:
>
> > > Steve Hullfish wrote:
> > > ...The diversion into "smart tools" may have
> > > been welcome to some....
> > > ...That's obviously a good thing and something
> > > that brings money and editors into the fold...
> >
> > Ironically, the unforeseen part was FCP X. I think plenty of folks would have jumped ship from FCP 7 to MC because of FCP X, regardless of whether Smart Tool existed or not.
> >
> > - Oliver
> >
> >
>

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Re: [Avid-L2] WAS: Biscardi makes his decision Now: The future of Symphony

Can we please change the subject line? This has now veered far enough off the original topic.

gh
----------------------------------------------------
Greg Huson
Secret Headquarters, Inc
Post Production / Production
Culver City, CA
323 677 2092
www.DigitalServiceStation.com
greg (at) SecretHQ.com
www.SecretHQ.com


On Apr 7, 2012, at 2:06 PM, oliverpetersvidy wrote:

> > Steve Hullfish wrote:
> > ...The diversion into "smart tools" may have
> > been welcome to some....
> > ...That's obviously a good thing and something
> > that brings money and editors into the fold...
>
> Ironically, the unforeseen part was FCP X. I think plenty of folks would have jumped ship from FCP 7 to MC because of FCP X, regardless of whether Smart Tool existed or not.
>
> - Oliver
>
>

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[Avid-L2] Re: Biscardi makes his decision

 

> Steve Hullfish wrote:
> ...The diversion into "smart tools" may have
> been welcome to some....
> ...That's obviously a good thing and something
> that brings money and editors into the fold...

Ironically, the unforeseen part was FCP X. I think plenty of folks would have jumped ship from FCP 7 to MC because of FCP X, regardless of whether Smart Tool existed or not.

- Oliver

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Re: [Avid-L2] Re: Biscardi makes his decision

 

I know you've been saying the same stuff. You and I have been commiserating for more than a decade. I was apologizing for the DS comment.

The advantage to Symphony is definitely the seamless integration of the cc tools into the editing environment. All you have to do is attempt to move any project into and out of any of the other NLE/CC combinations and you long for that specific functionality of Symphony.

I honestly think that the problem is that Avid is now so hampered by its depleted engineering staff. I don't think that they can do anything much more than keep up with all of the format and codec changes and make a few editing UI changes.

The diversion into "smart tools" may have been welcome to some, but when I just went back and did a gig on an older Symphony that didn't have them, I never missed them. It definitely probably helped make MC more accessible to the FCP crowd and made it a little easier for people to switch to Avid. That's obviously a good thing and something that brings money and editors into the fold, but MAN effects and CC are just not good in MC and Symph. I think the editing UI is better than anything else out there. I honestly do. I think editing and trimming in MC is better than FCP7 or FCPX or anything else. Media management and AMA are also good things about Avid, but outside of ACTUAL EDITING, MC is severely hampered.

Steve Hullfish
contributor: www.provideocoalition.com

On Apr 7, 2012, at 2:37 PM, Terence Curren wrote:

> --- In Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com, Steve Hullfish <steve4lists@...> wrote:
> "But effects and cc in Symphony needs to get more like... well, DS... Sorry Terry!"
>
> Why are you apologizing to me? No one has been screaming louder at Avid since the early days of the original Symphony that they need more features and development than me. No one!

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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[Avid-L2] Re: Biscardi makes his decision

 



--- In Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com, Steve Hullfish <steve4lists@...> wrote:
"But effects and cc in Symphony needs to get more like... well, DS... Sorry Terry!"

Why are you apologizing to me? No one has been screaming louder at Avid since the early days of the original Symphony that they need more features and development than me. No one!

That said, having the color correction tools seamlessly integrated into the rest of the workflow is very hard to leave behind. Having to go out to another app to do anything is stupid.

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Re: [Avid-L2] Biscardi makes his decision

 

I completely agree. I was one of the first Symphony "owners" (though at the time I was just the editor and the owners of my post house actually owned it) and I definitely wanted Symphony "protected" from MediaComposer - that they be distinct.

But that was more than a decade ago. Now it seems like if you want to distinguish Symphony from Media Composer, the software should be identical and they find a way to make the hardware the distinguishing factor. I just did a color correction/on-line session in Symphony supervised by an off-line editor who was used to taking her sessions into a Da Vinci and she was continually frustrated by the lack of things that I could do in Symphony in color correction compared to what she was used to.

When you compare the barely adequate color correction tools in Symphony to Apple Color or Da Vinci Resolve or Speedgrade, it is just pathetic.

Add the lame secondaries of Symphony into Media Composer and then do something that turns Symphony into a REAL finishing tool. As has been mentioned in countless posts since the initial happiness about Symphony, this would mean: Real color correction, real titling and real effects. Marquee isn't a bad start for titling. But effects and cc in Symphony needs to get more like... well, DS... Sorry Terry! Or Smoke...

Steve Hullfish
contributor: www.provideocoalition.com
author: "The Art and Technique of Digital Color Correction"

On Apr 7, 2012, at 9:17 AM, Agustin Goya wrote:

> Yes, I agree with you. If you spend enough time with any tool you'll get used to it, but is also true that the user base for MC is bigger than DS, so it makes more sense to move features from DS to Symph than the opposite, I know DS users won't be happy. I use both and prefer MC interface for editing and DS for compositing, time will tell.
> Regards

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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[Avid-L2] Re: Biscardi makes his decision

 

--- In Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com, "walter biscardi" <biscardi@...> wrote:

>not everyone needs everything that's in Symphony

Respectfully, CC and Universal Mastering are the only significant feature-delineations between MC and Symphony. And, let's face the facts -- neither one of them has been upgraded by Avid in over a decade.

Every professional editing system in the year 2012 should provide functional solutions that address those two workflow requirements.

The days of vertically-integrated product lines that desperately hold onto offline/online models are are over -- and the writing has been on the wall for a long time. If FCP hadn't imploded -- this lesson would have been driven home even harder.

I'm not saying there should be no difference in functionality or price point between platforms like DS and MC/Symphony -- and I'm not saying that previous Symphony owners should not be "made whole" for having spent premium dollars on their initial purchases and subsequent upgrades.

I'm just saying there is no rational reason to not merge the features of MC and Symphony -- because frankly, there is very little to merge.

--- In Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com, "walter biscardi" <biscardi@...> wrote:
>
> If you merge the two, then you have to raise the price of the tool across the board.
>
> It's better to keep MC as the lower cost option and the Symphony as the higher cost option because quite honestly, not everyone needs everything that's in Symphony, so why pay for the extra features you don't need?
>
> I might get one Symphony eventually as a finish workstation but keep all the MCs for the bulk of our editing since it's cheaper.
>
> Walter
>
> --- In Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com, op <owen@> wrote:
> >
> > I wish Avid was listening to this request! So many have been asking for this for years. They listened after so many years
> > and opened to 3rd party I/O, how many years will it take to merge Symphony into MC?
> >
> > Owen
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Apr 5, 2012, at 8:43 AM, haus wrote:
> >
> > > yeah, maybe they will finally merge the products into one affordable MC with all the bells and whistles...that would be the best they could do right now.
> > >
> > > --- In Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com, op <owen@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > oooh, sounds like some more good news about Avid MC is gonna happen at NAB. Yay!!
> > > > owen
> > > >
> > > > On Apr 4, 2012, at 5:13 PM, walter biscardi wrote:
> > > > "In a few weeks I should be able to share more about our decision to go Avid but for now, the article is about as much as I can say."
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>

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[Avid-L2] Re: Biscardi makes his decision

 



--- In Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com, "Job ter Burg (L2B)" <Job_L2@...> wrote:

"For years, people have been asking for clarity in the product line."

And more features in Symphony!

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Re: [Avid-L2] Biscardi makes his decision

 


Which features, Walter? There are 1.5 (one point five) features left in Symphony that are not in MC, and that in no way seems to justify the price difference in purchase, support and upgrades.

For years, people have been asking for clarity in the product line.

On 6 apr. 2012, at 13:27, walter biscardi wrote:

> not everyone needs everything that's in Symphony

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RE: [Avid-L2] Biscardi makes his decision

 

Yes, I agree with you. If you spend enough time with any tool you'll get used to it, but is also true that the user base for MC is bigger than DS, so it makes more sense to move features from DS to Symph than the opposite, I know DS users won't be happy. I use both and prefer MC interface for editing and DS for compositing, time will tell.
Regards

Sent from my phone
-----Original Message-----
From: John Heiser
Sent: 06/04/2012 22:27:04
Subject: Re: [Avid-L2] Biscardi makes his decision

The MC interface is friendlier only if you've never spent significant time
in DS. The tool you use most will always be friendlier than the ones you
use least. I faced MC for the first time in thirteen years when I upgraded
my DS recently, and found it confusing. Personally, I find the DS interface
speedy and efficient. So do a few thousand others out there.

----
*john heiser | senior video editor*
*o2**ideas*
birmingham, alabama, USA
http://vimeo.com/johnheiser

On Fri, Apr 6, 2012 at 4:42 PM, Agustin Goya <agustingoya@gmail.com> wrote:

> **
>
>
> MC and Symphony could be different produts, move symph's color correction
> to MC and add node effects and paint tool from DS to Symphony plus
> universal mastering. DS users won't be happy, but the user interface is far
> more friendly in Symph than in DS.
> Tree affects in symphony would be great.
>
> Sent from my phone
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Re: [Avid-L2] Re: Biscardi makes his decision

 

Seconded. I followed WB's blog and some of his on-line convos through
the process. Although I don't operate anywhere close to his scale and am
in a much smaller market I appreciated the sharing of his thought
processes. If something he talked about saves me a day of work or
decision making somewhere over the next year it is well worth it. If you
don't wish to share or aren't interested in what others go through...
Get the L out.

D

On 3/31/2012 12:24 PM, Terence Curren wrote:
>
> Me for one.
>
> --- In Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Avid-L2%40yahoogroups.com>,
> "john@..." <john@...> wrote:
> >
> > Who the hell cares?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Mar 29, 2012, at 11:32 PM, Terence Curren <tcurren@...> wrote:
> >
> > > After testing several systems for a while, Walter makes his choice
> on the replacement for FCP.
> > >
> > > <<
> http://www.biscardicreative.com/blog/2012/03/because-you-asked-more-on-our-switch-to-avid-mc6/>>
> > >
> > > or
> > >
> > > <<http://tinyurl.com/ct354un>>
> > >
> > > Terence Curren
> > > Burbank, CA
> > >
> > > www.alphadogs.tv
> > > www.digitalservicestation.com
> > >
> > > www.editorslounge.com
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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