Thursday, January 5, 2023

Re: [Avid-L2] AAF with mixed sample rates?

I don't want to have an argument about sample rates. For anyone who really wants to get into the science and math behind this, I suggest the book "Signals and Systems" by Khalid Sayood. Dr. Sayood's explanation of things has definitely changed the way I look at almost everything. Happy 2023. JB


On Jan 5, 2023, at 11:37 AM, bouke <bouke@editb.nl> wrote:


On 05 Jan 2023, at 01:05, JBeck <jb30343@windstream.net> wrote:

The more samples per second, the smoother and more detailed the waveform.

This is incorrect. The player should generate a waveform, no matter the amount of 'steps', since blockwaves don't exist in 'nature'. 
The more samples per second, the higher of frequencies can be described, but input a wave, a wave comes out or you have a horrible out of spec player.

The higher the bit depth (Y axis) the more nuanced the loudness. JB 

Also not true. A higher bit depth can describe lower volumes. (If you mean with 'nuanced' a  lower noise floor or higher dynamics, ok. But for the vast majority of mixed / finished sound, it is impossible to hear the difference between 16 and 24 bits.

There is a very nice video on the subject, I once found the link on JW soundgroup, but can't find it back anymore.

Bouke



Re: [Avid-L2] AAF with mixed sample rates?


On 05 Jan 2023, at 01:05, JBeck <jb30343@windstream.net> wrote:

The more samples per second, the smoother and more detailed the waveform.

This is incorrect. The player should generate a waveform, no matter the amount of 'steps', since blockwaves don't exist in 'nature'. 
The more samples per second, the higher of frequencies can be described, but input a wave, a wave comes out or you have a horrible out of spec player.

The higher the bit depth (Y axis) the more nuanced the loudness. JB 

Also not true. A higher bit depth can describe lower volumes. (If you mean with 'nuanced' a  lower noise floor or higher dynamics, ok. But for the vast majority of mixed / finished sound, it is impossible to hear the difference between 16 and 24 bits.

There is a very nice video on the subject, I once found the link on JW soundgroup, but can't find it back anymore.

Bouke



Re: [Avid-L2] AAF with mixed sample rates?

MC can do SR conversion on exporting AAF, but you have to check the box to request it.  It isn't the default behavior.

On export to Pro Tools, everything is converted to the project rate (if needed), so there is no reason to flag it.  The check box is still there if you want to convert to something other than your project rate.

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Re: [Avid-L2] AAF with mixed sample rates?

Good info Jeffrey. I always assumed ProTools worked like MC and did SR conversion on fly.

That said, doesn't MC do an SR conversion when exporting an AAF? I've seen that on the progress bar for something...

Good test for .PTX export from MC -> Protools. Does SR get flagged in any way.

<Whinge>
I'd try it myself but
a. my MC perpetual has lapsed and there's no option to 'get current'
b. Even if I could get current, this new feature is not available to perpetual versions.
</Whinge>
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Wednesday, January 4, 2023

Re: [Avid-L2] AAF with mixed sample rates?

Picture a 2 axis graph. The horizontal axis is time, broken up into X thousands of divisions per second. The vertical axis is loudness, expressed as a numeric value. The more samples per second, the smoother and more detailed the waveform. The higher the bit depth (Y axis) the more nuanced the loudness. JB 


On Jan 4, 2023, at 5:46 PM, C. Hess <cfh3media@gmail.com> wrote:

I thought sample rates simply referred to quality,
and had nothing to do with playback, i.e. frame rates.





On Jan 4, 2023, at 3:34 PM, John Moore <bigfish@pacbell.net> wrote:

[Edited Message Follows]

Thanks for all the info.  In my search I  found someone talking about mixed sample rates problems in Nuendo but they were told it worked okay in ProTools.  That made me think protools would have handled the few 44.1K files but now I know better.  So many Frame Rates, Sample Rates, Raster Dimensions it' a wonder anything works at all anymore.  Oh and don't get me started on Fonts or LUTs.

Re: [Avid-L2] AAF with mixed sample rates?

I thought sample rates simply referred to quality,
and had nothing to do with playback, i.e. frame rates.





On Jan 4, 2023, at 3:34 PM, John Moore <bigfish@pacbell.net> wrote:

[Edited Message Follows]

Thanks for all the info.  In my search I  found someone talking about mixed sample rates problems in Nuendo but they were told it worked okay in ProTools.  That made me think protools would have handled the few 44.1K files but now I know better.  So many Frame Rates, Sample Rates, Raster Dimensions it' a wonder anything works at all anymore.  Oh and don't get me started on Fonts or LUTs.

Re: [Avid-L2] AAF with mixed sample rates?

[Edited Message Follows]

Thanks for all the info.  In my search I  found someone talking about mixed sample rates problems in Nuendo but they were told it worked okay in ProTools.  That made me think protools would have handled the few 44.1K files but now I know better.  So many Frame Rates, Sample Rates, Raster Dimensions it' a wonder anything works at all anymore.  Oh and don't get me started on Fonts or LUTs.
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Re: [Avid-L2] AAF with mixed sample rates?

Thanks for all the info.  In my search I  found someone talking about mixed sample rates problems in Nuendo but they were told is worked okay in ProTools.  That made me think protools would have handled the few 44.1K files but now I know better.  So many Frame Rates, Sample Rates, Raster Dimensions it' a wonder anything works at all anymore.  Oh and don't get me started on Fonts or LUTs.
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Monday, January 2, 2023

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Re: [Avid-L2] AAF with mixed sample rates?

If you don't delete the original audio, it stays in your bin and media files folders under the original name, without the ".converted". They aren't quarantined.
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Re: [Avid-L2] AAF with mixed sample rates?

Pro tools plays all the audio at the session's sample rate, regardless of what the file says it is.  ("Project rate", in MC terminology.)  Since the session is 48K, the 44.1K audio would play sped up and pitched higher. I suspect that's why Media Composer has the warning, in order to reduce the number of angry phone calls the video editors get from the sound department.

The new "export Pro Tools Session" feature will always convert any media that's not at the project sample rate and build the session to refer to the converted media.

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Sunday, January 1, 2023

Re: [Avid-L2] AAF with mixed sample rates?

It worked like a champ.  I choose to delete original audio and I didn't have to relink anything.  I was pleasantly surprise mixed frame rate clips didn't require any special attention.  I know audio is sample based but having had to do the usual jumping through hoops with mixed frame rate clips on the video side I'm happy to report the audio side of those clips don't require the same tender loving care.

If I hadn't chosen to delete the original audio what would happen to the 44.1K audio clips?  Do they still live inside the avidmediafiles folder or would they be sequestered to some sort of quarantine folder?
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Re: [Avid-L2] AAF with mixed sample rates?



 Thanks for the reminder.

On Sun, Jan 1, 2023 at 02:00 PM, Job ter Burg (L2) wrote:
In MC, just select the clips in the bin, right-click, choose Audio->Change Sample Rate, set to 48kHz and High, deleting the originals. 
J

On 1 Jan 2023, at 22:53, John Moore <bigfish@pacbell.net> wrote:

I'm about to pass a project on to audio.  I'm pretty sure it will be done in ProTools but I will double check.  Upon export I get a prompt that the aaf has mixed sample rates.  I found a few dvd rips with 41.1K audio sample rate.  Will ProTools object to the mixed sample rates?
 
I'm trying to think of the most efficient way to convert the odd sample rates to 48K.  I have found the offending clips.  I'm trying to recall if there is a way to just modify the clips that I have located.  I don't usually deal with audio aafs but this is a multi hat project on my end.
 
Any new years suggestions?
 
Happy New Year L-2
 
John Moore Barking Trout Productions Studio City, CA bigfish@pacbell.net
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Re: [Avid-L2] AAF with mixed sample rates?

In MC, just select the clips in the bin, right-click, choose Audio->Change Sample Rate, set to 48kHz and High, deleting the originals. 
J

On 1 Jan 2023, at 22:53, John Moore <bigfish@pacbell.net> wrote:

I'm about to pass a project on to audio.  I'm pretty sure it will be done in ProTools but I will double check.  Upon export I get a prompt that the aaf has mixed sample rates.  I found a few dvd rips with 41.1K audio sample rate.  Will ProTools object to the mixed sample rates?

I'm trying to think of the most efficient way to convert the odd sample rates to 48K.  I have found the offending clips.  I'm trying to recall if there is a way to just modify the clips that I have located.  I don't usually deal with audio aafs but this is a multi hat project on my end.

Any new years suggestions?

Happy New Year L-2

John Moore Barking Trout Productions Studio City, CA bigfish@pacbell.net

[Avid-L2] AAF with mixed sample rates?

I'm about to pass a project on to audio.  I'm pretty sure it will be done in ProTools but I will double check.  Upon export I get a prompt that the aaf has mixed sample rates.  I found a few dvd rips with 41.1K audio sample rate.  Will ProTools object to the mixed sample rates?

I'm trying to think of the most efficient way to convert the odd sample rates to 48K.  I have found the offending clips.  I'm trying to recall if there is a way to just modify the clips that I have located.  I don't usually deal with audio aafs but this is a multi hat project on my end.

Any new years suggestions?

Happy New Year L-2

John Moore Barking Trout Productions Studio City, CA bigfish@pacbell.net

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