[Avid-L2] MC 2020.8/Legacy Components Question

I'm on a Mac, OS, Mojave 10.14.6, currently running MC 2019.12.2.

I experiencing some *really* weird things having to do with audio tracks in clips that were transcoded from ArriRAW to DNxHD 115, and sync'd with production audio. Foto Kem's nextLAB in Atlanta is handling this part of it all.

Simply put, the really weird trouble is that sometimes audio tracks in a given clip (multiple tracks from the shoot's Poly WAVs) will slip out of sync, often by as much as 65 to 100 frames. But only one or two audio tracks within a clip with upwards of eight total audio tracks. But then, I close the app, restart, and re-launch MC, and sometimes it self-corrects. But not always.

I mean, W - T - F?

So I want to try to update to MC 2020.8. But I want to stay in OS 10.14.6, and therefore need the Legacy Components, I believe (as I'm in the middle of a feature, and want access to these).

So… do I need to install MC 2020.8 first, and then install Legacy Components?

How does this work?

Many thanks?

David

Davaldod

davaldod@gmail.com

Re: [Avid-L2] ROI period for equipment... #OffTopic #post

On Sat, Sep 26, 2020 at 09:43 AM, timmangini wrote:

We got tired of our clients saying "this doesn't sound like it did in the mix room"

Over 20 years ago I helped a mixing engineer friend find better nearfield monitors for his two studios. These rooms were professionally designed, heavily treated and fully measured by an acoustical consultant, but the nearfield monitors his acoustician recommended did not sound great. Clients like me -- and my clients -- complained because the sound back at the client table was completely different than the sound closer to the mixing desk. So he got in 5 different brands of professional monitors to try out. Just for grins, I brought in some high-end, 2-way speakers that I reviewed favorably for an audiophile journal ($4500/pair list).

 

Two important things. 1) The Genelecs were the only monitors that came close to sounding as good as the high-end speakers when listening in the nearfield and centered. 2) The high-end speakers only sounded really great when the listener was in the sweat spot; the Genelecs sounded much more consistent no matter where we sat -- off axis or farther back at the client table. The Genelecs came closest to curing the problem of clients hearing a different mix than the mixing engineer. I assume that the off-axis response and power response into the room made a difference. This experience made me a believer in Genelec.

_._,_._,_

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Re: [Avid-L2] ROI period for equipment... #OffTopic #post

When I have to do screenings I'll lavish a bit more attention on the output. I mix down the Dialogue, Music and Effects into three separate buckets then go in and tweak them all individually. Then I mix that down into a stereo track (I rarely prepare test screeners in 5.1), and that's what's used in the theater for tests or other early screenings.

Davaldod

davaldod@gmail.com

On Sep 25, 2020, at 11:51 AM, Job ter Burg (L2) <Job_L2@terburg.com> wrote:

In my world, I end up having to do WIP screenings in theaters, sometimes with test audiences, without any time or money to have a sound team do a mix pass. So my cutting copies are all done at around 80dB in a well treated room, and I can export for playback pretty much at any given time during the process.

But I fully get what you're saying.

J

On 21 Sep 2020, at 17:10, David Dodson <davaldod@gmail.com> wrote:



I've done so many movies now that — in my experience — close enough is good enough, primarily because I am not the last stop on the Good Sound Express.

Every room, every system, sounds different, just as every cinema will sound different. It's impossible for me to get bunged up about precision because as the offline editor, it's simply not the primary focus of my work. As long as I'm confident I'm hearing clear, intelligible dialogue, as well as a decent enough approximation of the offline "mix," then I'm happy and can't angst over it.

Needless to say, people's individual bailiwicks determine their specific need for aural precision.

My $.02.

David

Davaldod

davaldod@gmail.com

On Sep 21, 2020, at 7:24 AM, JBeck <jb30343@windstream.net> wrote:

Sure Job,  I should qualify this by saying that I'm not a sound mixer. 
I do appreciate good sound and I appreciate good speakers, both for hifi
listening and spot on honest monitors.  If I were buying speakers (near
field, and under $1000 for a pair)  for an editing room today, I'd
probably buy Neumann KH80.  They are very honest throughout their range
and easy on the ears.  They are a little weak in the low end so if
you're mixing for release, a supplemental woofer would be a good idea,
just to make sure there's no low end rumble that might be a problem.

In my own editing room I have a pair of vintage EV Sentry 100-EL. Part
of that is due to sentimentality.  I'm a big fan of vintage EV stuff. 
The Sentry 100 was a industry standard in its day.  It's not as fast and
honest as what can be had today.  OTOH, I have been listening to them
for a very long time plus I have two pairs at home so I know what to
expect.  If there's a problem in the sound, I usually catch it.  Again,
I edit picture.  I don't mix sound for a living.

I tend to agree with you're buddy.  A lot of it comes down to personal
preference.  I've done enough experimenting with designing my own
speakers to know that it's a complicated business.  Room design and
treatment is too. --J.B.

Job ter Burg (L2) wrote:

Hi JB,

What's your preferred brand/type of speaker, if I may ask?

Before I switched from Genelec 1030 to 1031 for my LCR's, I auditioned
the Dynaudio LYD48's. Had a couple of sound editors/mixers in the room
and compare some tracks on the LYD48's and the 1031's. Funny thing
was, I didn't think there was that much of a difference, to be honest.
They were very, very similar. Of course, there were subtle
differences. The Dynaudio fans in the room felt the Genelecs sound too
harsh, the Genelec fans felt the Dynaudios sounded too 'hi-fi'. But
these were two 'Nordic' brands, there might be more difference when we
were to add a pair of Neumanns, JBL's, PSI's, ADAMs, Meyers, etc.

I later discussed this with another sound buddy, who essentially said:
there's a great many offerings from different brands. It's basically a
matter of A. budget, and B. taste. There's no real wrong choice.

And on a whole different note: many editing rooms I walked into had
terrible acoustics to begin with. No matter which speaker you place in
a bad room, it won't sound great. Best sound investment I ever did was
room treatment.

J

On 21 Sep 2020, at 01:47, JBeck <jb30343@windstream.net
<mailto:jb30343@windstream.net>> wrote:

Bouke. Not exactly a troll. I've been on the L since the mid 90's as
have you. I value your opinion but on this, we can disagree. As I
said, I haven't listened to Genelec's recent offerings. I hope they
have improved. JB

On Sep 20, 2020, at 5:41 PM, bouke <bouke@editb.nl
<mailto:bouke@editb.nl>> wrote:

 I did not read all, and I DO have Genelecs, and mr, Icepick is a
troll, but:
A 1500 USD refurb HP workstation makes a screaming good Avid.

There is no need whatsoever for over expensive stupid Macs. (And
that's the case for many years.)

Bouke

Edit 'B / VideoToolShed.com <http://videotoolshed.com/>
van Oldenbarneveltstraat 33
6512 AS  Nijmegen
+31 6 21817248

On 20 Sep 2020, at 22:55, Secret HQ <Greg@SecretHQ.com
<mailto:Greg@SecretHQ.com>> wrote:

Oh, man, for a minute there I thought you were talking about real
estate and I got all interested. (1031 is a tax deferral system for
investors.)

________________________
Greg Huson
Secret Headquarters, Inc
GK Huson, LLC
Greg (at) SecretHQ.com <http://secrethq.com/>
www.SecretHQ.com <http://www.secrethq.com/>

On Sep 20, 2020, at 13:46, David Dodson <davaldod@gmail.com
<mailto:davaldod@gmail.com>> wrote:

 I cut with Genelec 8020B's. I love them. Really, really terrific
- to my ears, anyway.


Davaldod
davaldod@gmail.com <mailto:davaldod@gmail.com>

On Sep 20, 2020, at 12:40 PM, Job ter Burg (L2)
<Job_L2@terburg.com <mailto:Job_L2@terburg.com>> wrote:

Awww, come on…

Love my 1031's. J

On 17 Sep 2020, at 23:49, JBeck <jb30343@windstream.net
<mailto:jb30343@windstream.net>> wrote:

Every Genelec monitor I've listened to made me feel like someone was
poking an ice pick into my ears.

Re: [Avid-L2] ROI period for equipment... #OffTopic #post

We got tired of our clients saying "this doesn't sound like it did in the mix room" and decided to upgrade our facility. The primary mix facility we work with does not use Genelecs, but after testing we ended up buying Genelec 8341's for all of our rooms because of their accurate sound reproduction. Although they are expensive they tested out better than some bigger and more expensive speakers.

_._,_._,_

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Re: [Avid-L2] ROI period for equipment... #OffTopic #post

In my world, I end up having to do WIP screenings in theaters, sometimes with test audiences, without any time or money to have a sound team do a mix pass. So my cutting copies are all done at around 80dB in a well treated room, and I can export for playback pretty much at any given time during the process.

But I fully get what you're saying.

J

On 21 Sep 2020, at 17:10, David Dodson <davaldod@gmail.com> wrote:



I've done so many movies now that — in my experience — close enough is good enough, primarily because I am not the last stop on the Good Sound Express.

Every room, every system, sounds different, just as every cinema will sound different. It's impossible for me to get bunged up about precision because as the offline editor, it's simply not the primary focus of my work. As long as I'm confident I'm hearing clear, intelligible dialogue, as well as a decent enough approximation of the offline "mix," then I'm happy and can't angst over it.

Needless to say, people's individual bailiwicks determine their specific need for aural precision.

My $.02.

David

Davaldod

davaldod@gmail.com

On Sep 21, 2020, at 7:24 AM, JBeck <jb30343@windstream.net> wrote:

Sure Job,  I should qualify this by saying that I'm not a sound mixer. 
I do appreciate good sound and I appreciate good speakers, both for hifi
listening and spot on honest monitors.  If I were buying speakers (near
field, and under $1000 for a pair)  for an editing room today, I'd
probably buy Neumann KH80.  They are very honest throughout their range
and easy on the ears.  They are a little weak in the low end so if
you're mixing for release, a supplemental woofer would be a good idea,
just to make sure there's no low end rumble that might be a problem.

In my own editing room I have a pair of vintage EV Sentry 100-EL. Part
of that is due to sentimentality.  I'm a big fan of vintage EV stuff. 
The Sentry 100 was a industry standard in its day.  It's not as fast and
honest as what can be had today.  OTOH, I have been listening to them
for a very long time plus I have two pairs at home so I know what to
expect.  If there's a problem in the sound, I usually catch it.  Again,
I edit picture.  I don't mix sound for a living.

I tend to agree with you're buddy.  A lot of it comes down to personal
preference.  I've done enough experimenting with designing my own
speakers to know that it's a complicated business.  Room design and
treatment is too. --J.B.

Job ter Burg (L2) wrote:

Hi JB,

What's your preferred brand/type of speaker, if I may ask?

Before I switched from Genelec 1030 to 1031 for my LCR's, I auditioned
the Dynaudio LYD48's. Had a couple of sound editors/mixers in the room
and compare some tracks on the LYD48's and the 1031's. Funny thing
was, I didn't think there was that much of a difference, to be honest.
They were very, very similar. Of course, there were subtle
differences. The Dynaudio fans in the room felt the Genelecs sound too
harsh, the Genelec fans felt the Dynaudios sounded too 'hi-fi'. But
these were two 'Nordic' brands, there might be more difference when we
were to add a pair of Neumanns, JBL's, PSI's, ADAMs, Meyers, etc.

I later discussed this with another sound buddy, who essentially said:
there's a great many offerings from different brands. It's basically a
matter of A. budget, and B. taste. There's no real wrong choice.

And on a whole different note: many editing rooms I walked into had
terrible acoustics to begin with. No matter which speaker you place in
a bad room, it won't sound great. Best sound investment I ever did was
room treatment.

J

On 21 Sep 2020, at 01:47, JBeck <jb30343@windstream.net
<mailto:jb30343@windstream.net>> wrote:

Bouke. Not exactly a troll. I've been on the L since the mid 90's as
have you. I value your opinion but on this, we can disagree. As I
said, I haven't listened to Genelec's recent offerings. I hope they
have improved. JB

On Sep 20, 2020, at 5:41 PM, bouke <bouke@editb.nl
<mailto:bouke@editb.nl>> wrote:

 I did not read all, and I DO have Genelecs, and mr, Icepick is a
troll, but:
A 1500 USD refurb HP workstation makes a screaming good Avid.

There is no need whatsoever for over expensive stupid Macs. (And
that's the case for many years.)

Bouke

Edit 'B / VideoToolShed.com <http://videotoolshed.com/>
van Oldenbarneveltstraat 33
6512 AS  Nijmegen
+31 6 21817248

On 20 Sep 2020, at 22:55, Secret HQ <Greg@SecretHQ.com
<mailto:Greg@SecretHQ.com>> wrote:

Oh, man, for a minute there I thought you were talking about real
estate and I got all interested. (1031 is a tax deferral system for
investors.)

________________________
Greg Huson
Secret Headquarters, Inc
GK Huson, LLC
Greg (at) SecretHQ.com <http://secrethq.com/>
www.SecretHQ.com <http://www.secrethq.com/>

On Sep 20, 2020, at 13:46, David Dodson <davaldod@gmail.com
<mailto:davaldod@gmail.com>> wrote:

 I cut with Genelec 8020B's. I love them. Really, really terrific
- to my ears, anyway.


Davaldod
davaldod@gmail.com <mailto:davaldod@gmail.com>

On Sep 20, 2020, at 12:40 PM, Job ter Burg (L2)
<Job_L2@terburg.com <mailto:Job_L2@terburg.com>> wrote:

Awww, come on…

Love my 1031's. J

On 17 Sep 2020, at 23:49, JBeck <jb30343@windstream.net
<mailto:jb30343@windstream.net>> wrote:

Every Genelec monitor I've listened to made me feel like someone was
poking an ice pick into my ears.

Re: [Avid-L2] ROI period for equipment... #OffTopic #post

When I auditioned speakers for my living room, I ended up getting Genelecs in there as well. Having listened to these speakers since the late nineties, I just got so used to them, that anything else felt less comfortable.
I get the comment on the clarity, which can become harsh. At the same time, that helps me spot harshness in dialogues so I can tame that before playing back ku scratchmix in a theater, where that harshness would never be less.

J
> On 21 Sep 2020, at 16:21, Mark B via groups.io <eatapc=me.com@groups.io> wrote:
>
> I would never use them in my home for music listening.


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Re: [Avid-L2] ROI period for equipment... #OffTopic #post

I've done so many movies now that — in my experience — close enough is good enough, primarily because I am not the last stop on the Good Sound Express.

Every room, every system, sounds different, just as every cinema will sound different. It's impossible for me to get bunged up about precision because as the offline editor, it's simply not the primary focus of my work. As long as I'm confident I'm hearing clear, intelligible dialogue, as well as a decent enough approximation of the offline "mix," then I'm happy and can't angst over it.

Needless to say, people's individual bailiwicks determine their specific need for aural precision.

My $.02.

David

Davaldod

davaldod@gmail.com

On Sep 21, 2020, at 7:24 AM, JBeck <jb30343@windstream.net> wrote:

Sure Job,  I should qualify this by saying that I'm not a sound mixer. 
I do appreciate good sound and I appreciate good speakers, both for hifi
listening and spot on honest monitors.  If I were buying speakers (near
field, and under $1000 for a pair)  for an editing room today, I'd
probably buy Neumann KH80.  They are very honest throughout their range
and easy on the ears.  They are a little weak in the low end so if
you're mixing for release, a supplemental woofer would be a good idea,
just to make sure there's no low end rumble that might be a problem.

In my own editing room I have a pair of vintage EV Sentry 100-EL. Part
of that is due to sentimentality.  I'm a big fan of vintage EV stuff. 
The Sentry 100 was a industry standard in its day.  It's not as fast and
honest as what can be had today.  OTOH, I have been listening to them
for a very long time plus I have two pairs at home so I know what to
expect.  If there's a problem in the sound, I usually catch it.  Again,
I edit picture.  I don't mix sound for a living.

I tend to agree with you're buddy.  A lot of it comes down to personal
preference.  I've done enough experimenting with designing my own
speakers to know that it's a complicated business.  Room design and
treatment is too. --J.B.

Job ter Burg (L2) wrote:

Hi JB,

What's your preferred brand/type of speaker, if I may ask?

Before I switched from Genelec 1030 to 1031 for my LCR's, I auditioned
the Dynaudio LYD48's. Had a couple of sound editors/mixers in the room
and compare some tracks on the LYD48's and the 1031's. Funny thing
was, I didn't think there was that much of a difference, to be honest.
They were very, very similar. Of course, there were subtle
differences. The Dynaudio fans in the room felt the Genelecs sound too
harsh, the Genelec fans felt the Dynaudios sounded too 'hi-fi'. But
these were two 'Nordic' brands, there might be more difference when we
were to add a pair of Neumanns, JBL's, PSI's, ADAMs, Meyers, etc.

I later discussed this with another sound buddy, who essentially said:
there's a great many offerings from different brands. It's basically a
matter of A. budget, and B. taste. There's no real wrong choice.

And on a whole different note: many editing rooms I walked into had
terrible acoustics to begin with. No matter which speaker you place in
a bad room, it won't sound great. Best sound investment I ever did was
room treatment.

J

On 21 Sep 2020, at 01:47, JBeck <jb30343@windstream.net
<mailto:jb30343@windstream.net>> wrote:

Bouke. Not exactly a troll. I've been on the L since the mid 90's as
have you. I value your opinion but on this, we can disagree. As I
said, I haven't listened to Genelec's recent offerings. I hope they
have improved. JB

On Sep 20, 2020, at 5:41 PM, bouke <bouke@editb.nl
<mailto:bouke@editb.nl>> wrote:

 I did not read all, and I DO have Genelecs, and mr, Icepick is a
troll, but:
A 1500 USD refurb HP workstation makes a screaming good Avid.

There is no need whatsoever for over expensive stupid Macs. (And
that's the case for many years.)

Bouke

Edit 'B / VideoToolShed.com <http://videotoolshed.com/>
van Oldenbarneveltstraat 33
6512 AS  Nijmegen
+31 6 21817248

On 20 Sep 2020, at 22:55, Secret HQ <Greg@SecretHQ.com
<mailto:Greg@SecretHQ.com>> wrote:

Oh, man, for a minute there I thought you were talking about real
estate and I got all interested. (1031 is a tax deferral system for
investors.)

________________________
Greg Huson
Secret Headquarters, Inc
GK Huson, LLC
Greg (at) SecretHQ.com <http://secrethq.com/>
www.SecretHQ.com <http://www.secrethq.com/>

On Sep 20, 2020, at 13:46, David Dodson <davaldod@gmail.com
<mailto:davaldod@gmail.com>> wrote:

 I cut with Genelec 8020B's. I love them. Really, really terrific
- to my ears, anyway.


Davaldod
davaldod@gmail.com <mailto:davaldod@gmail.com>

On Sep 20, 2020, at 12:40 PM, Job ter Burg (L2)
<Job_L2@terburg.com <mailto:Job_L2@terburg.com>> wrote:

Awww, come on…

Love my 1031's. J

On 17 Sep 2020, at 23:49, JBeck <jb30343@windstream.net
<mailto:jb30343@windstream.net>> wrote:

Every Genelec monitor I've listened to made me feel like someone was
poking an ice pick into my ears.

Re: [Avid-L2] ROI period for equipment... #OffTopic #post

Sure Job,  I should qualify this by saying that I'm not a sound mixer. 
I do appreciate good sound and I appreciate good speakers, both for hifi
listening and spot on honest monitors.  If I were buying speakers (near
field, and under $1000 for a pair)  for an editing room today, I'd
probably buy Neumann KH80.  They are very honest throughout their range
and easy on the ears.  They are a little weak in the low end so if
you're mixing for release, a supplemental woofer would be a good idea,
just to make sure there's no low end rumble that might be a problem.

In my own editing room I have a pair of vintage EV Sentry 100-EL. Part
of that is due to sentimentality.  I'm a big fan of vintage EV stuff. 
The Sentry 100 was a industry standard in its day.  It's not as fast and
honest as what can be had today.  OTOH, I have been listening to them
for a very long time plus I have two pairs at home so I know what to
expect.  If there's a problem in the sound, I usually catch it.  Again,
I edit picture.  I don't mix sound for a living.

I tend to agree with you're buddy.  A lot of it comes down to personal
preference.  I've done enough experimenting with designing my own
speakers to know that it's a complicated business.  Room design and
treatment is too. --J.B.

Job ter Burg (L2) wrote:
> Hi JB,
>
> What's your preferred brand/type of speaker, if I may ask?
>
> Before I switched from Genelec 1030 to 1031 for my LCR's, I auditioned
> the Dynaudio LYD48's. Had a couple of sound editors/mixers in the room
> and compare some tracks on the LYD48's and the 1031's. Funny thing
> was, I didn't think there was that much of a difference, to be honest.
> They were very, very similar. Of course, there were subtle
> differences. The Dynaudio fans in the room felt the Genelecs sound too
> harsh, the Genelec fans felt the Dynaudios sounded too 'hi-fi'. But
> these were two 'Nordic' brands, there might be more difference when we
> were to add a pair of Neumanns, JBL's, PSI's, ADAMs, Meyers, etc.
>
> I later discussed this with another sound buddy, who essentially said:
> there's a great many offerings from different brands. It's basically a
> matter of A. budget, and B. taste. There's no real wrong choice.
>
> And on a whole different note: many editing rooms I walked into had
> terrible acoustics to begin with. No matter which speaker you place in
> a bad room, it won't sound great. Best sound investment I ever did was
> room treatment.
>
> J
>
>> On 21 Sep 2020, at 01:47, JBeck <jb30343@windstream.net
>> <mailto:jb30343@windstream.net>> wrote:
>>
>> Bouke. Not exactly a troll. I've been on the L since the mid 90's as
>> have you. I value your opinion but on this, we can disagree. As I
>> said, I haven't listened to Genelec's recent offerings. I hope they
>> have improved. JB
>>
>>
>>> On Sep 20, 2020, at 5:41 PM, bouke <bouke@editb.nl
>>> <mailto:bouke@editb.nl>> wrote:
>>>
>>>  I did not read all, and I DO have Genelecs, and mr, Icepick is a
>>> troll, but:
>>> A 1500 USD refurb HP workstation makes a screaming good Avid.
>>>
>>> There is no need whatsoever for over expensive stupid Macs. (And
>>> that's the case for many years.)
>>>
>>> Bouke
>>>
>>> Edit 'B / VideoToolShed.com <http://videotoolshed.com/>
>>> van Oldenbarneveltstraat 33
>>> 6512 AS  Nijmegen
>>> +31 6 21817248
>>>
>>>> On 20 Sep 2020, at 22:55, Secret HQ <Greg@SecretHQ.com
>>>> <mailto:Greg@SecretHQ.com>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Oh, man, for a minute there I thought you were talking about real
>>>> estate and I got all interested. (1031 is a tax deferral system for
>>>> investors.)
>>>>
>>>> ________________________
>>>> Greg Huson
>>>> Secret Headquarters, Inc
>>>> GK Huson, LLC
>>>> Greg (at) SecretHQ.com <http://secrethq.com/>
>>>> www.SecretHQ.com <http://www.secrethq.com/>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> On Sep 20, 2020, at 13:46, David Dodson <davaldod@gmail.com
>>>>> <mailto:davaldod@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>  I cut with Genelec 8020B's. I love them. Really, really terrific
>>>>> - to my ears, anyway.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Davaldod
>>>>> davaldod@gmail.com <mailto:davaldod@gmail.com>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sep 20, 2020, at 12:40 PM, Job ter Burg (L2)
>>>>>> <Job_L2@terburg.com <mailto:Job_L2@terburg.com>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Awww, come on…
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Love my 1031's. J
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 17 Sep 2020, at 23:49, JBeck <jb30343@windstream.net
>>>>>>> <mailto:jb30343@windstream.net>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Every Genelec monitor I've listened to made me feel like someone was
>>>>>>> poking an ice pick into my ears.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>
>




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