Saturday, August 6, 2011

Re: [Avid-L2] Re: Sony F3 s-log lut

 


There's a bigger issue at hand IMHO.

When I'm cutting a scene, it's easy to add a CC to any flat looking footage. I work on it for a while, then decide to look for an alternate take on a shot, and I open it in the source monitor, and that alt take will look boring and flat. That simply influences the perception of that take (in a negative way), and that's a pretty bad situation in offline.

On 7 aug 2011, at 07:53, Terence Curren wrote:

> when the image is so flat that unknowing people will freak out.

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[Avid-L2] Re: Sony F3 s-log lut

 

Precisely. The LUT comes in really handy for offline when the image is so flat that unknowing people will freak out.

When it comes time for color correction, the colorist wants to do his own thing. His version of a "LUT" at that point is a preset that gets him in the ball park to start color correcting for real.

When Avid builds this in (they have to) it needs to be easily turned of when that is desired.

--- In Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com, "Tom McDonnell" <ltr54@...> wrote:

<< I have created LUT's onset and then sent them to post to help guide the dailies colorist. Outside of that I've found most LUT's get discarded pretty quickly when a project hits post.>>

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Re: [Avid-L2] Re: Sony F3 s-log lut

 

Oliver,

Think we are on the same page here. It could be very helpful to have non-destructive, non-baked in LUTs assignable at the clip level from bins. Same goes for adjustments to RAW sources. 

It may be even more helpful to NOT have this gamma remapping appear in the normal color corrector curves or histograms. They would affect the image but be somewhat invisible to the interface, working behind the scenes. 

Perhaps this is a half  baked thought but it would be simpler to make adjustments to material with LUTs applied without having those LUTs pollute the correction interface with points and such. The corrections the user makes would be summed or factored with the "soft LUTs" to derive the final correction applied to a clip. 

As Greg stated, it could also be nice if these LUTs could be loaded, reassigned and toggled from a separate color correction tab. 

An option to "bake in" during a transcode could be useful for some as well. 

Honestly, my knowledge is a bit thin in the operation of s-log, log-c and others. My rudimentary understanding is that while it is possible to restore the image to something viewable and near correct through tools like the Composer color corrector, the nature of log really requires something more surgical or precise to manipulate. This may vary among the different types of log recording used by various manufacturers. The optimum inverse gamma needed for restoration may create a very active curve with too many pre-assigned points and nuanced manipulations to be of used directly for further correction. 

Certainly the degree of accuracy in the current color corrector is a limiting factor. Just my opinion. 

My limited experience with SLOG and composer was that I was not able to entirely mimic the camera assignable monitor LUTs or get the image exactly where I wanted it. For whatever reason, it seemed better results should be achievable. Much of this may be my lack of experience. 

C.A.M

________________________________
From: oliverpetersvidy <oliverpeters@oliverpeters.com>
To: Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, August 6, 2011 4:53 PM
Subject: [Avid-L2] Re: Sony F3 s-log lut

 
> Chris wrote:
> I believe true luts do much more than
> simply assign points on curves.

I'm not convinced of that for the camera profiles. Yes, if you want the inverse of the gamma adjustment, then LUTs are nice. The reality is you are going to change it creatively anyway. I do some Alexa work in FCP. There I have the Nick Shaw filters (he's reverse-engineered these from ARRI LUTs) and I also have the official ARRI LUT for Color.

The Color LUT makes life easy, but it doesn't necessarily change the grade I would get without it. Plus it would be a real PITA if I had footage from mixed camera sources and profiles. In the case of MC, I wouldn't want the LUT to be loaded into the source setting, though, if that somehow baked in that setting before it hit the internal color correction pipeline.

- Oliver

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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RE: [Avid-L2] Re: Sony F3 s-log lut

 

> I believe true luts do much more than simply assign points on curves.

A LUT is any lookup table you need to make your image do what it needs to
do. The LUT's I see are simply correcting onset monitors to compensate for
S-Log cameras like the Genesis, F23,F35, Red or Arri Alexa. I have created
LUT's onset and then sent them to post to help guide the dailies colorist.
Outside of that I've found most LUT's get discarded pretty quickly when a
project hits post.

Tom McDonnell
Los Angeles, CA
New Orleans, LA

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RE: [Avid-L2] Re: Too Good A Job Issue?

 

>Last Night i was watching "Damages". This is a legal-eagle series on
netflix starring glen close. In the 2nd episode, there is a terrific
murder scene which is exactly what you are looking for. It is grainy, high
contrast, blown out colors...I mean it would be perfect for your needs, give
it a look.

FYI the last time I checked the DP for "Damages" was shooting on F900R's at
9db gain. The gain was upped to add noise and grittiness to the look. I like
"Damages" and it's look.

Tom McDonnell
DP/Cinematographer
Los Angeles, CA
New Orleans, LA

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Re: [Avid-L2] Re: Sony F3 s-log lut

 

So, would you like to see the LUT capability being a part of the color
correction tool, or available separately?

Thanks,

Joe Womble

On Sat, Aug 6, 2011 at 3:03 PM, Greg Huson <Greg@secrethq.com> wrote:

>
> On Aug 6, 2011, at 2:53 PM, oliverpetersvidy wrote:
>
> > baked in that setting before it hit the internal color correction
> pipeline.
>
> seems like a LUT should be 'insertable' or maybe 'switchoffable' from a tab
> in the color correction tool.
>
> gh
> ----------------------------------------------------
> Greg Huson
> Secret Headquarters, Inc
> Post Production / Production
> Culver City, CA
> 323 677 2092
> www.DigitalServiceStation.com
> greg (at) SecretHQ.com
> facebook.com/greg.huson
> www.SecretHQ.com
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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[Avid-L2] Re: Too Good A Job Issue?

 

John,
Ok, I would like to add a story, and propose an example or 2 for a solution. When I first started as an online editor running a gvg 200-2 switcher in a beta suite with a cmx 340x (boy do I feel old), I had an agency client that always kept me in the suite until the wee hours of the morning. On this particular job, they had me building 10 layer compositions on d2 (analog composite...yuck!). It was about 3am and we are on our final title. They wanted it to be green. All 3 of them could not agree on which shade of green. Finally, one of them says he is in control and will decide the shade of green. I turn to the switcher (client is behind me) and reach for the hue control as he is saying "a little more blue, little more...little more..keep going, Perfect!" If only I had actually touched the hue control on the switcher, the color would have actually been changing.

Here are my suggestions..send them exactly the same thing as you have already and I bet they approve it. The same as not actually doing a dissolve at 15 frames as previously mentioned.

Last Night i was watching "Damages". This is a legal-eagle series on netflix starring glen close. In the 2nd episode, there is a terrific murder scene which is exactly what you are looking for. It is grainy, high contrast, blown out colors...I mean it would be perfect for your needs, give it a look. If you do not have netflix, let me know and I will send you a couple screen shots with my iphone (just kidding, I do not have an iphone, but it seemed an appropriate comment in this thread). I can send some shots just the same with my Droid.

Hope this advice provides laughs and help.

Jonathan

--- In Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com, "johnrobmoore" <bigfish@...> wrote:
>
> Wow you got me a googling here. So I bet we've all worked with producers/director who clearly believe their own press and that they must be of the mindset that they fall into the catagory of:
> "than which nothing greater can be thought". I've definitely worked with young MTV producers who could think of all kinds of things that we should try in the edit bay but couldn't explain their thoughts in any tangible way that pointed in a direction of making an edit choice. The arm waving, literally waving the arms, in the edit bay to describe how the transition should look still sends chills up my spine and makes me laugh at the same time. So I guess I've been striving for a "a gritty look which nothing grittier can be thought of. Now my brain hurts and I'm stuck in an infinite loop.
>
> --- In Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com, Jim Feeley <jfeeley@> wrote:
> >
> > Yes:
> >
> > The app is named John Moore's Ontological Negative. John could start a
> > web page where he lists his Moore-ON clients.
> >
> > Jim
> > Jim Feeley
> > jfeeley@
> >
> >
> >
> > On Aug 5, 2011, at 1:35 PM, Gajit wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > Is there an app for that client?
> > >
> > > jonathan
> > >
> > > --- In Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com, Tony Capelli <tcapelli@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I get a response questioning why one side of the split screen says
> > > "Not Desaturated."
> > > >
> > > > Classic!
> > > >
> > > > Tony
> > > > Sent from my iPhone!
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Aug 4, 2011, at 4:44 PM, "johnrobmoore" <bigfish@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > I get a response questioning why one side of the split screen
> > > says "Not Desaturated."
> > >
> >
>

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Re: [Avid-L2] Re: Sony F3 s-log lut

 


On Aug 6, 2011, at 2:53 PM, oliverpetersvidy wrote:

> baked in that setting before it hit the internal color correction pipeline.

seems like a LUT should be 'insertable' or maybe 'switchoffable' from a tab in the color correction tool.

gh
----------------------------------------------------
Greg Huson
Secret Headquarters, Inc
Post Production / Production
Culver City, CA
323 677 2092
www.DigitalServiceStation.com
greg (at) SecretHQ.com
facebook.com/greg.huson
www.SecretHQ.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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[Avid-L2] Re: Sony F3 s-log lut

 

> Chris wrote:
> I believe true luts do much more than
> simply assign points on curves.

I'm not convinced of that for the camera profiles. Yes, if you want the inverse of the gamma adjustment, then LUTs are nice. The reality is you are going to change it creatively anyway. I do some Alexa work in FCP. There I have the Nick Shaw filters (he's reverse-engineered these from ARRI LUTs) and I also have the official ARRI LUT for Color.

The Color LUT makes life easy, but it doesn't necessarily change the grade I would get without it. Plus it would be a real PITA if I had footage from mixed camera sources and profiles. In the case of MC, I wouldn't want the LUT to be loaded into the source setting, though, if that somehow baked in that setting before it hit the internal color correction pipeline.

- Oliver

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Re: [Avid-L2] Sony F3 s-log lut

 

Hopefully MC 6 will introduce a way to assign source side / bin luts which work in cooperation with the aging color corrector.

For now lut assignment is a DS only proposition.

It is a real bear to work with F3 s-log directly in the Symphony/Mc color corrector. More control is needed and I believe true luts do much more than simply assign points on curves.

This is critical as acquisition formats race towards more raw and logarithmic recording. Red, Alexa, f3, with more to come.

By the way. The F3 is a great camera. A little Mickey Mouse in construction, operation and layout but it is incredibly low noise and has impressive color fidelity. Watch out for IR contamination in rare situations.

Would love to hear more from those working with slog inside composer.

C.A.M.

On Aug 6, 2011, at 12:58 PM, Joe Womble <cre8tive@gmail.com> wrote:

> Tony,
>
> Gracias. amigo.
>
> Joe
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Re: [Avid-L2] OS for MC5.5.1

 

I've always *needed* my Avid. I've never *needed* Boris although
yeah, it came in the box.

On Fri, Aug 5, 2011 at 10:37 PM, Greg Huson <Greg@secrethq.com> wrote:
> uh... and boris, right?
>
>
>
> On Aug 5, 2011, at 8:25 PM, Wilson Chao wrote:
> > all I needed was the activation code
> > in the box.

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Re: [Avid-L2] Sony F3 s-log lut

 

Tony,

Gracias. amigo.

Joe

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Re: [Avid-L2] Re: Too Good A Job Issue?

 

It's based on the client.
Some recognize my best effort, and that's what they get. Some don't.

 
Today, I'm cutting for my boss's daughter's wedding rehearsal dinner.
It's Saturday. He's getting my best.

Curtis Nichols
SeƱor Editor
PCS Production Co.
Irving, Tx.
------------------

________________________________
From: Greg Huson
Subject: Re: [Avid-L2] Re: Too Good A Job Issue?

I recall when I first learned the concept of the 'fire hydrant.'. It was very cynical then, it's still cynical now...  We all make jokes about it, but do we actually do it?  I'm a pretty cynical guy, but somehow, most of the time, I still TRY to approach some level of art or craft...  Even in the smallest way. 

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Re: [Avid-L2] Prores to MXF

 

Tim,
It depends, and Offloader is not mature yet. (Read, not all file formats are
supported at the moment)
For XDcam MXF it takes the source TC and convertes it into QT tc.
For Canon it behaves the same as QTchange (it uses the THM).
Other file formats 'sometimes' contain TC, in whatever form. Some are
supported, some not (yet)
If there is no / unsupported TC, the file creation time (minus duration of
the clip) is used for TC.

But if you have special requirements, let me know and i'll build it in (if
possible)

Bouke

VideoToolShed
van Oldenbarneveltstraat 33
6512 AS NIJMEGEN
The Netherlands
+31 24 3553311
www.videotoolshed.com
For large files:
http://dropbox.yousendit.com/BoukeVahl998172

----- Original Message -----
From: "Tim McLaughlin" <mcltim.156@gmail.com>
To: <Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, August 05, 2011 5:39 PM
Subject: Re: [Avid-L2] Prores to MXF

> Bouke - Your site says that Offloader provides "Automated rendering to
> any QuickTime format, retaining / generating timecode".
>
> Does Offloader add timecode (like QTchange), or does it just pass it
> through?
>
> Thanks!
>
> --
> Tim McLaughlin
> Final Cut and Avid Editor
> http://vimeo.com/mcltim
> www.mcltim.com
>
> On Thu, Aug 4, 2011 at 8:15 PM, bouke <bouke@editb.nl> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> This should do the trick:
>>
>> http://www.videotoolshed.com/product/15/offloader/3
>>
>> Transcodes to Avid MXF, so you can just MediaTool the clips in.
>> You can set the amount of horsepower by assigning an amount of workers,
>> so
>> you can either have huge speed or keep your system available for other
>> tasks.
>>
>> Bouke
>

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RE: [Avid-L2] Sony F3 s-log lut

 

Well, I could send it to you now that I have it :)

-----Original Message-----
From: Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
Joe Womble
Sent: 06 August 2011 16:23
To: Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Avid-L2] Sony F3 s-log lut

Tony,

Getting this camera soon. Please let us know the best way to get the lut.

Thanks,

Joe Womble

On Sat, Aug 6, 2011 at 6:57 AM, Tony Quinsee-Jover
<tony@hdheaven.co.uk>wrote:

> s'okay, I now have it, thanks.
>
> T.
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

------------------------------------

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http://archives.bengrosser.com/avid/

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your next cell bill.Yahoo! Groups Links

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Re: [Avid-L2] Prores to MXF

 

Hmm.
There are two ways the app. can work, either monitor (removable) volumes, or
transcode a specific folder.
What you describe is that the app. is indexing a huge amount of drives.
Do check the 'volume MUST have folder' option.

Another PITA is and Apple bug that sometimes gives weird names to drives.
(Not visible by an end user, but used in 'some' parts of the OS, never been
able to nail it exact).
Nothing i can do about that now, except warn users NOT to use network
drives.

For Unitiy, it 'should' be possible to point the application to a specific
folder to transcode.
But that is in the second screen, so first you have to get there.

Do contact me direct if you experience trouble, i'm happy to guide you
trough the process.

Bouke

VideoToolShed
van Oldenbarneveltstraat 33
6512 AS NIJMEGEN
The Netherlands
+31 24 3553311
www.videotoolshed.com
For large files:
http://dropbox.yousendit.com/BoukeVahl998172

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ian Johnson" <ijohnson2@earthlink.net>
To: <Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, August 05, 2011 7:38 AM
Subject: RE: [Avid-L2] Prores to MXF

>
>
> I gave that a try but I couldn't get it to work. When I get to the second
> screen, it immediately hangs (or OSX thinks it does). Does it monitor
> the
> source folder I set and wait for me to drop the QTs into it? Or do I
> point
> it to the actual files from that second screen? I'm a little fuzzy about
> how to give it source files that are on a unity drive rather than coming
> from a card or other removable source. What limitation does the trial
> have?
>
>
>
> I can do fast import from MPEG Streamclip, but that means having the
> original prores, a DNX QT, and a MXF at 60GB apiece. I would love to be
> able to leave out that middle step.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> From: Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
> Of
> bouke
> Sent: Thursday, August 04, 2011 6:16 PM
> To: Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Avid-L2] Prores to MXF
>
>
>
>
>
> This should do the trick:
>
> http://www.videotoolshed.com/product/15/offloader/3
>
> Transcodes to Avid MXF, so you can just MediaTool the clips in.
> You can set the amount of horsepower by assigning an amount of workers, so
> you can either have huge speed or keep your system available for other
> tasks.
>
> Bouke
>
> VideoToolShed
> van Oldenbarneveltstraat 33
> 6512 AS NIJMEGEN
> The Netherlands
> +31 24 3553311
> www.videotoolshed.com
> For large files:
> http://dropbox.yousendit.com/BoukeVahl998172
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ian Johnson" <ijohnson2@earthlink.net
> <mailto:ijohnson2%40earthlink.net> >
> To: <Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Avid-L2%40yahoogroups.com> >
> Sent: Thursday, August 04, 2011 7:00 PM
> Subject: [Avid-L2] Prores to MXF
>
>>
>>
>> Is there a 3rd party program that will convert ProRes to DNxHD MXF? I
>> would
>> like to be able to transcode in the background and not wait to run it
>> overnight. Background rendering in MC6 would be nice, but background
>> transcoding and consolidating would be the real time saver for me.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Ian
>>
>>
>>
>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>

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