Saturday, August 2, 2014

Re: [Avid-L2] Is there a new BlackMagic Desktop Video Driver that eliminates the 1 Frame offset on Digital Cut?

 

I had similar chats with AJA high ups or highest ups.  The 3:2 pulldown preset was a complete disaster and they admidted the same issues you mentioned.  I did some pretty extensive FCP 7 Frame Accuracy testing several years back and I found that in my simple basic tests 23.98 and 29.97/59.94 were frame accurate both with and without sync.  Of course I always use sync when available.  My tests were of simple burn in time code captures and I forget what the codec I was using but I did SD and HD tests.  I realized later that even though my simple tests were acting repeatable and reliable on the small scale they probably weren't representative of how an actual timeline would respond in real use.  At least I got it to behave accurately using the Sony B preset.  The Sony A preset acted much like this BlackMagic Card is doing.  The difference was that unlike Avid holding the black frame FCP 7 with a Kona 3 would hold the first frame of video which would give you a doubled frame at the insert edit.  That was more insidious because it was easily unnoticed at the time whereas the Avid black frame at least stands out as an issue.  Reminds me of what I was told years ago that in Japan they didn't black and code tapes they would stripe them with color bars so that any missed edits would show a flash of bars.  Clever but I think I'd rather risk a black frame getting by then a Bars frame but I do see the logic in it. 

I know others have posted the the Blackmagic cards work correctly with other software so there is  something different happening with Avid.  Now the solution is so simple to me, just bump the timeline roll a frame early and the problem is gone, which is what the Sony B preset does with a Kona 3.  That can't be hard to do just tell some part of the food chain to offset a frame.  Avid has a digital cut offset for DV capture and output.  I tried that here just to see but no dice.  I assume that confirms that Digital Cut offset in the deck preferences only effect 1394 capture and output.  So how do you sell a video card as working with Avid when it can't do a digital cut. Granted I have my Nitris DX but if AJA can do it why doesn't blackmagic get with the program?  Oh wait AJA acts like a real professional company and answers the phone and promptly resolves equipment problems like the GVG folks do because in broadcast that is required by the clients.  While blackmagic has done some amazing things with breaking barriers the service side is not one of them.  Saying they are better than Apple service isn't a glowing endorsement of them. 



---In Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com, <cutandcover@...> wrote :

What you're talking about is frustrating. And, FYI, there is NO solution to frame accurate editing with FCP. After years of battling that, I finally got AJA to admit that every attempt they put out there to fix it was like using buckets on a sinking ship. Hopeless. So thankful I haven't experienced it with Avid, with both Nitris DX/Keyspan and AJA KONA and IO Express. I don't have any Avid/Blackmagic systems in house, so I can't test those.

Blackmagic Media Express comes with every Blackmagic card. I wonder if you can narrow down the problem by testing to see if laying off to tape from that application is frame accurate. If so, then it's some Open I/O + Blackmagic bug going on.


On Sun, Aug 3, 2014 at 1:33 AM, bigfish@... [Avid-L2] <Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 

I tried control through the blackmagic card and I get the same black frame.  So everything is acting just like has previously been reported.  Now as already mentioned there may be many other issues between Avid and Blackmagic but this right here is unworkable for anyone using tape.  It ain't dead yet in my world.  I have been using two blackmagic cards, an sdi and a 4K card at work for HD capture and they seemed to be capturing frame accurately.  Time to contact my friend who uses Blackmagic's SDK and gets into the coding of stuff in BM's Desktop something or other coding/configuring app.  If AJA can have two presets that get around this in the old FCP 7 world it seems like a pretty simple fix.  It would be like how Sony has the time code sense on the decks doing cross and frame rate conversions offsetting the RS-422 time code the necessary amount to achieve an in sync capture of the tape media.



---In Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com, <bigfish@...> wrote :


I just found the extra cable I need to try what you suggest.  I'll report what I find soon.  Man it's Saturday night and my daughter is at a sleepover.  I've got an SRW-5500 to test frame accuracy with.  I sure know how to live it up on the weekend!!!


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Re: [Avid-L2] Is there a new BlackMagic Desktop Video Driver that eliminates the 1 Frame offset on Digital Cut?

 

What you're talking about is frustrating. And, FYI, there is NO solution to frame accurate editing with FCP. After years of battling that, I finally got AJA to admit that every attempt they put out there to fix it was like using buckets on a sinking ship. Hopeless. So thankful I haven't experienced it with Avid, with both Nitris DX/Keyspan and AJA KONA and IO Express. I don't have any Avid/Blackmagic systems in house, so I can't test those.

Blackmagic Media Express comes with every Blackmagic card. I wonder if you can narrow down the problem by testing to see if laying off to tape from that application is frame accurate. If so, then it's some Open I/O + Blackmagic bug going on.


On Sun, Aug 3, 2014 at 1:33 AM, bigfish@pacbell.net [Avid-L2] <Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 

I tried control through the blackmagic card and I get the same black frame.  So everything is acting just like has previously been reported.  Now as already mentioned there may be many other issues between Avid and Blackmagic but this right here is unworkable for anyone using tape.  It ain't dead yet in my world.  I have been using two blackmagic cards, an sdi and a 4K card at work for HD capture and they seemed to be capturing frame accurately.  Time to contact my friend who uses Blackmagic's SDK and gets into the coding of stuff in BM's Desktop something or other coding/configuring app.  If AJA can have two presets that get around this in the old FCP 7 world it seems like a pretty simple fix.  It would be like how Sony has the time code sense on the decks doing cross and frame rate conversions offsetting the RS-422 time code the necessary amount to achieve an in sync capture of the tape media.



---In Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com, <bigfish@...> wrote :


I just found the extra cable I need to try what you suggest.  I'll report what I find soon.  Man it's Saturday night and my daughter is at a sleepover.  I've got an SRW-5500 to test frame accuracy with.  I sure know how to live it up on the weekend!!!


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Posted by: Mark Spano <cutandcover@gmail.com>
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Re: [Avid-L2] Is there a new BlackMagic Desktop Video Driver that eliminates the 1 Frame offset on Digital Cut?

 

I tried control through the blackmagic card and I get the same black frame.  So everything is acting just like has previously been reported.  Now as already mentioned there may be many other issues between Avid and Blackmagic but this right here is unworkable for anyone using tape.  It ain't dead yet in my world.  I have been using two blackmagic cards, an sdi and a 4K card at work for HD capture and they seemed to be capturing frame accurately.  Time to contact my friend who uses Blackmagic's SDK and gets into the coding of stuff in BM's Desktop something or other coding/configuring app.  If AJA can have two presets that get around this in the old FCP 7 world it seems like a pretty simple fix.  It would be like how Sony has the time code sense on the decks doing cross and frame rate conversions offsetting the RS-422 time code the necessary amount to achieve an in sync capture of the tape media.



---In Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com, <bigfish@...> wrote :

I just found the extra cable I need to try what you suggest.  I'll report what I find soon.  Man it's Saturday night and my daughter is at a sleepover.  I've got an SRW-5500 to test frame accuracy with.  I sure know how to live it up on the weekend!!!

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Re: [Avid-L2] Is there a new BlackMagic Desktop Video Driver that eliminates the 1 Frame offset on Digital Cut?

 

I just found the extra cable I need to try what you suggest.  I'll report what I find soon.  Man it's Saturday night and my daughter is at a sleepover.  I've got an SRW-5500 to test frame accuracy with.  I sure know how to live it up on the weekend!!!

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Re: [Avid-L2] Is there a new BlackMagic Desktop Video Driver that eliminates the 1 Frame offset on Digital Cut?

 

Why not try the RS-422 from the Blackmagic card? I had trouble when I installed a Keyspan (authorized) to use with my AJA IO Express until I gave up on the Keyspan and used the RS-422 from the AJA. Perfectly frame accurate on every edit.


On Sat, Aug 2, 2014 at 11:02 PM, John Pale pale.edit@gmail.com [Avid-L2] <Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 

Believe me, VTR issues are the least of Blackmagic's problems with Avid.



On Saturday, August 2, 2014, John Moore bigfish@pacbell.net [Avid-L2] <Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 

I know I've read here that there is a bug with Blackmagic's Video Desktop Driver for their cards when used with Avid.  I have an SRW-5500 and after using my Nitris DX I decided to test my BlackMagic SDI card that I purchased for Resolve.  It is outputting a Frame late as has been posted on this forum before.  In my case I'm using a Keyspan, the older model, that is frame accurate with my Nitris DX on my MacPro 12Core OS 10.8.5 SNDX V6.5.4.  Because it is outputting a frame late an insert edit starts with a frame of black.  This info was mentioned in earlier threads.  I have to find another vtr cable to try controlling the deck through the blackmagic card's RS-422 port to see if that is any different.  I doubt it will be.  I'm on BlackMagic Video Desktop 9.7.7.  I will check there site to see if there are any revisions that may correct the issue.

It seems to me given this behavior it is very similar to FCP 7 with a Kona 3 and being set to Sony preset A which rolled the timeline 1 frame late.  Given I'm using a Keyspan that is frame accurate with the NitrisDX but a frame late with the BlackMagic SDI card as the output I think it's logical to assume that the BlackMagic card is buffering the Avid output by a Frame.  Thus the timeline is actually rolling at the right time relative to the SRW-5500 going into record the Blackmagic card is causing a 1 frame delay of the output signal so the black frame avid holds on output until it rolls the timeline is caught in the BM SDI cards frame buffer/processing when the vtr actually goes into record thereby accounting for the black frame at the insert edit point. 

How can anybody work this way with Avid products.  I haven't checked capture frame accuracy yet but that will be my next step.  Is there any kind of offset setting like aja products offer that I could tweak this.  The Avid timeline needs to roll one frame earlier to account for the video delay the BM card is causing.

I am basing this on my experience with processing delays in other devices and my tests with FCP.  The frame buffering may not be the real issue but it sure acts like a frame buffering.  Given the card looks like it can perhaps do cross converts etc...  I would think it would have to have the whole frame into it's buffer before it could process and converted frame on output but perhaps I'm wrong on that.  It just all seems like a one frame DVE delay happening like the good ole linear days only then the switcher output wasn't black before rolling.
 
John Moore
Barking Trout Productions
Studio City, CA
bigfish@pacbell.net


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Re: [Avid-L2] Is there a new BlackMagic Desktop Video Driver that eliminates the 1 Frame offset on Digital Cut?

 

Believe me, VTR issues are the least of Blackmagic's problems with Avid.



On Saturday, August 2, 2014, John Moore bigfish@pacbell.net [Avid-L2] <Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 

I know I've read here that there is a bug with Blackmagic's Video Desktop Driver for their cards when used with Avid.  I have an SRW-5500 and after using my Nitris DX I decided to test my BlackMagic SDI card that I purchased for Resolve.  It is outputting a Frame late as has been posted on this forum before.  In my case I'm using a Keyspan, the older model, that is frame accurate with my Nitris DX on my MacPro 12Core OS 10.8.5 SNDX V6.5.4.  Because it is outputting a frame late an insert edit starts with a frame of black.  This info was mentioned in earlier threads.  I have to find another vtr cable to try controlling the deck through the blackmagic card's RS-422 port to see if that is any different.  I doubt it will be.  I'm on BlackMagic Video Desktop 9.7.7.  I will check there site to see if there are any revisions that may correct the issue.

It seems to me given this behavior it is very similar to FCP 7 with a Kona 3 and being set to Sony preset A which rolled the timeline 1 frame late.  Given I'm using a Keyspan that is frame accurate with the NitrisDX but a frame late with the BlackMagic SDI card as the output I think it's logical to assume that the BlackMagic card is buffering the Avid output by a Frame.  Thus the timeline is actually rolling at the right time relative to the SRW-5500 going into record the Blackmagic card is causing a 1 frame delay of the output signal so the black frame avid holds on output until it rolls the timeline is caught in the BM SDI cards frame buffer/processing when the vtr actually goes into record thereby accounting for the black frame at the insert edit point. 

How can anybody work this way with Avid products.  I haven't checked capture frame accuracy yet but that will be my next step.  Is there any kind of offset setting like aja products offer that I could tweak this.  The Avid timeline needs to roll one frame earlier to account for the video delay the BM card is causing.

I am basing this on my experience with processing delays in other devices and my tests with FCP.  The frame buffering may not be the real issue but it sure acts like a frame buffering.  Given the card looks like it can perhaps do cross converts etc...  I would think it would have to have the whole frame into it's buffer before it could process and converted frame on output but perhaps I'm wrong on that.  It just all seems like a one frame DVE delay happening like the good ole linear days only then the switcher output wasn't black before rolling.
 
John Moore
Barking Trout Productions
Studio City, CA
bigfish@pacbell.net

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Posted by: John Pale <pale.edit@gmail.com>
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[Avid-L2] Is there a new BlackMagic Desktop Video Driver that eliminates the 1 Frame offset on Digital Cut?

 

I know I've read here that there is a bug with Blackmagic's Video Desktop Driver for their cards when used with Avid.  I have an SRW-5500 and after using my Nitris DX I decided to test my BlackMagic SDI card that I purchased for Resolve.  It is outputting a Frame late as has been posted on this forum before.  In my case I'm using a Keyspan, the older model, that is frame accurate with my Nitris DX on my MacPro 12Core OS 10.8.5 SNDX V6.5.4.  Because it is outputting a frame late an insert edit starts with a frame of black.  This info was mentioned in earlier threads.  I have to find another vtr cable to try controlling the deck through the blackmagic card's RS-422 port to see if that is any different.  I doubt it will be.  I'm on BlackMagic Video Desktop 9.7.7.  I will check there site to see if there are any revisions that may correct the issue.

It seems to me given this behavior it is very similar to FCP 7 with a Kona 3 and being set to Sony preset A which rolled the timeline 1 frame late.  Given I'm using a Keyspan that is frame accurate with the NitrisDX but a frame late with the BlackMagic SDI card as the output I think it's logical to assume that the BlackMagic card is buffering the Avid output by a Frame.  Thus the timeline is actually rolling at the right time relative to the SRW-5500 going into record the Blackmagic card is causing a 1 frame delay of the output signal so the black frame avid holds on output until it rolls the timeline is caught in the BM SDI cards frame buffer/processing when the vtr actually goes into record thereby accounting for the black frame at the insert edit point. 

How can anybody work this way with Avid products.  I haven't checked capture frame accuracy yet but that will be my next step.  Is there any kind of offset setting like aja products offer that I could tweak this.  The Avid timeline needs to roll one frame earlier to account for the video delay the BM card is causing.

I am basing this on my experience with processing delays in other devices and my tests with FCP.  The frame buffering may not be the real issue but it sure acts like a frame buffering.  Given the card looks like it can perhaps do cross converts etc...  I would think it would have to have the whole frame into it's buffer before it could process and converted frame on output but perhaps I'm wrong on that.  It just all seems like a one frame DVE delay happening like the good ole linear days only then the switcher output wasn't black before rolling.
 
John Moore
Barking Trout Productions
Studio City, CA
bigfish@pacbell.net

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[Avid-L2] Re: Phrase find & Script Sync update?

 

I was at an AVID event at USC on Thursday and had the opportunity to chat with CEO Louis Hernandez, jr.

About the only thing I said to him was, "Please resolve the Nexidia negotiations".  Anybody on this board knows how critical that piece of software is to many workflows.  If you feel strongly about it, please make your voice heard... not only here, but to the ACA, and anyone at AVID who's email you happen to have!

mark

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Re: [Avid-L2] Avid Pan & Zoom Selective Functionality

 

I had to use the 72 dpi trick to get stills looking right in a show today. At first it didn't work for me but with Mr. Spano's help I learnd to turn off resample when changing the dpi to 72 in photoshop. Once I did voila so both you guys saved the show for me. ;-)

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Friday, August 1, 2014

Re: [Avid-L2] Nesting Sequences in Sequences and Linking

 

I compared to FCP only to clearly describe the function. I do not fault MC for not doing everything FCP can. If I were going to pick on MC, I'd go after more embarrassing weaknesses, like Pan and Zoom. ;)


Cheers,
                  tod


On Aug 1, 2014, at 11:29 AM, Marcel Brassard bncrcaxlr@gmail.com [Avid-L2] <Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Ok! You are correct but in Avid you can sub-clip a sequence and get the sequence TC in the sub-clip. Try that in FCP.

:- )))


On 2014-08-01, at 11:13 AM, hoplist@hillmanncarr.com [Avid-L2] wrote:



I'm I correct in understanding that there is no way to nest one sequence in another such that it remains dynamically linked to the original, as is possible in FCP?

For instance, in FCP I commonly nest my uncaptioned master sequence into a second sequence to add captions. In FCP, I can update the original, and both sequences will reflect the changes. It does not appear that I can do the same thing in MC.

This technique is very handy for layered versioning as well as for multi-image programs. 


Tod Hopkins
Hillmann & Carr Inc.











Tod Hopkins
Hillmann & Carr Inc.




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Re: [Avid-L2] Media Composer (6) training on Amazon Prime Instant Video

 

How do I get MY cut? By the way, there's not THAT much that's different from MC6, so this is still pretty relevant training.


Steve

On Aug 1, 2014, at 3:57 PM, kvipost@att.net [Avid-L2] <Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 

While browsing Amazon Prime Instant Video for obscure titles I came across a training series for MC6 available (free) to Prime members - Class on Demand by Mr. Hullfish...  Never would have expected to find that there!




Amazon.com: Complete Training for Avid Media Composer & Symphony 6 (Institutional Use) [HD]: Steve Hullfish, Class on Demand: Amazon Instant Video

 


Karl Knowles

Tallahassee, FL



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