Saturday, February 19, 2011

Re: [Avid-L2] Re: Symphony owners?

 

Very well put!

We don't seem to have any problem agreeing with each other on this one; now, if only someone at Avid agreed with us, perhaps something would actually happen.

Frank, do you still read the list?

Shirley

-----Original Message-----
From: blafarm <blafarm@yahoo.com>
To: Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sat, Feb 19, 2011 7:39 pm
Subject: [Avid-L2] Re: Symphony owners?

Agreed.

It is utterly depressing that in the year 2011 -- the only material

differentiator between MC and Symphony is still Advanced Color Correction and

Universal Mastering.

It is also utterly depressing that in year 2011 -- both of these platforms are

still wallowing in obsolete toolsets that are over 10 years old. I mean --

really -- what other software company is selling 10 year old functionality?

I won't go into the gory details of what is wrong with these two products --

except to say that if Avid is unaware of their shortcomings-- we are all in deep

trouble.

What I will say is my opinion that there is simply no reason for these two

products to not be merged into one.

And for that one surviving product to have herculean developmental resources

thrown at it -- to overcome the past 10 years of squandered opportunity -- that

would have allowed Avid to be an innovative leader -- and not an embarrasing

follower.

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[Avid-L2] Re: Symphony owners?

 

Agreed.

It is utterly depressing that in the year 2011 -- the only material differentiator between MC and Symphony is still Advanced Color Correction and Universal Mastering.

It is also utterly depressing that in year 2011 -- both of these platforms are still wallowing in obsolete toolsets that are over 10 years old. I mean -- really -- what other software company is selling 10 year old functionality?

I won't go into the gory details of what is wrong with these two products -- except to say that if Avid is unaware of their shortcomings-- we are all in deep trouble.

What I will say is my opinion that there is simply no reason for these two products to not be merged into one.

And for that one surviving product to have herculean developmental resources thrown at it -- to overcome the past 10 years of squandered opportunity -- that would have allowed Avid to be an innovative leader -- and not an embarrasing follower.

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Re: [Avid-L2] Re: Symphony owners?

 

Awww...Shucks!

Shirley

-----Original Message-----
From: Terence Curren <tcurren@aol.com>
To: Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sat, Feb 19, 2011 6:12 pm
Subject: [Avid-L2] Re: Symphony owners?

Yeah! Exactly! Shirley is my new hero.

--- In Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com, Shirley Gutierrez <guanacaa@...> wrote:

<<That said, I must have the color functionality, and I haven't yet found any

other product that combines the flexible workflow of Symphony, allowing you to

both edit and CC in the same environment. >>

<<Snip>>

<<FCP's Color, however powerful, doesn't constitute head to head competition,

because it's workflow is so profoundly inconvenient for people who work in my

situation.>>

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[Avid-L2] Re: Symphony owners?

 



--- In Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com, "oliverpetersvidy" <oliverpeters@...> wrote:

<<The problem with the FCS workflow is the round-tripping. >>

And how about that audio in Color... Oops, can't do that. "I need to trim that shot" oops, can't do that. "How will that comp look?" Oops, can't do that. "Play it back in RT without rendering?" Oops, can't do that...

Yeah, Color, that's abetter workflow... NOT!!

now the toolset on the other hand... :-(

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[Avid-L2] Re: Symphony owners?

 

Yeah! Exactly! Shirley is my new hero.

--- In Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com, Shirley Gutierrez <guanacaa@...> wrote:

<<That said, I must have the color functionality, and I haven't yet found any other product that combines the flexible workflow of Symphony, allowing you to both edit and CC in the same environment. >>

<<Snip>>

<<FCP's Color, however powerful, doesn't constitute head to head competition, because it's workflow is so profoundly inconvenient for people who work in my situation.>>

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[Avid-L2] Re: Aja Io Express vs Matrox MX02 Mini: Who wins?

 



I don't see conform as a problem. If you conform at a facility, edls (and possibly Avid sequences) do the trick. If you conform yourself, you could ingest at native resolution, transcode for offline, relink for online. For tapeless workflows, Mini beats Io on price and LE nudges Io on connectivity. For tape-based workflows, Io vs Mini is an irrelevant question. But Avid's FAQ comment seems to make Io vs LE an option too. That's all I'm saying. Each has its issues to be sure. Io is I/O certified for new v.5.5, which experience suggests will be buggy for a while. LE could work immediately in very reliable v.5, but I can't tell if Avid officially supports the LE for playback as it does Mini (Can anyone answer definitively?). Io's direct I/O is familiar and convenient, but I'm intrigued by the possibility of editing and capturing at the same time through the Vetura app (no "n").

Like you, I'm upgrading from Mojo-SDI and cut offline for an online conform. In the current Avid universe, anything short of an overpriced Nitris DX involves one compromise or another. In looking for the cheapest compromise that works for me now, I'm wondering if LE deserves a spot on the table next to Io.

--- In Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com, "keren_aarons" <keren_aarons@...> wrote:
>
> The LE is great, I said so in a previous response and was in fact what I originally thought was now compatible. Sadly, it's only the IO Express that offers true compatibility.
>
> The problem with using Ventura is it limits your workflow when you're doing classic offline / online conforms. I don't want to go through the hassle of using a 3rd party capture tool when I conform - major issues could arise, and as we all know, time is money. It breaks the one thing that keeps Avid ahead of it's competitors - media management!
>
> An all in 1 HD capture / monitor solution that doesn't cost 8 times what it should (yes, I'm looking at you Mojo DX and Nitris) that offers the same hardware functionality that Blackmagic and Aja give you with FCP, would be a blessing. Avid is slowly starting to realise they can't grow their customer base when their hardware costs the earth - we just don't live in 1990's anymore; a time where they could charge a lot for the hardware. FCP changed all that.
>
>
>
>
> --- In Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com, hanaflan@ wrote:
> >
> > On face value, wouldn't that be a good thing? For example, use Vetura app
> > to digitize hours of footage to Avid codec files while editing something
> > else in Media Composer? Presuming Vetura can only make .mov but not .mxf files
> > and you'd have the extra step of importing, that still ties up MC for far
> > less time. The LE box includes HD/SD SDI and Balanced Audio - better than
> > either the Mini or Io Express. And it works with MCv.5 which is very stable
> > right now, as opposed to v.5.5 which has yet to work out the inevitable
> > bugs.
> >
> > My point is all the focus is on Mini and Io Express, but doesn't the LE
> > offer an even better option to the MojoDX? Or am I missing something?
> >
> >
> > David Helfand
> >
> >
> > In a message dated 2/19/2011 1:19:45 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
> > Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com writes:
> >
> > Well Media Composer isn't really doing anything in that workflow, it's
> > just Ventura outputting/ingestinWell Medi
> >
> > Zak Ray
> > Editor | Videographer
> > Boston, MA
> > 978.473.4226 | worldwide-studios.978
> >
> > On Feb 18, 2011, at 7:09 PM, _hanaflan@_ (mailto:hanaflan@)
> > wrote:
> >
> > > What about this info from Avid's FAQ? Can both the Mini and LE be used
> > with
> > > Macs, for both output & ingest (via Vetura software)?
> > >
> > > __http://avid.http://avidhttp://avhttp://avid.http://avidhttp://avid._
> > (http://avid.custkb.com/avid/app/selfservice/search.jsp?DocId=366347_)
> > > (_http://avid.http://avidhttp://avhttp://avid.http://avidhttp://avid._
> > (http://avid.custkb.com/avid/app/selfservice/search.jsp?DocId=366347) )
> > > "When will Avid support the Matrox MXO2 LE?
> > > In Mac-based networked environments, Matrox MXO2 LE can be used on an
> > > ingest/playout station with the Matrox Vetura Capture and Matrox Vetura
> > Playback
> > > stand-alone applications for quick and easy capture to Avid DNxHD or
> > other
> > > popular Avid-supported codecs and play out of .mov files over SDI,
> > analog
> > > component, Y/C, or composite. Avid and Matrox have forged an excellent
> > > relationship and continue to work together on future products to serve
> > our
> > > mutual customers needs. Announcements related to new products and
> > feature
> > > enhancements will be made in due course."
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>

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Re: [Avid-L2] Re: Symphony owners?

 


Aw, come on John, you have your very own Symphony, don't you? When was the last time someone asked you to CC with the emasculated MC color effect?

Thankfully, no one's asked me but once to do something quite that ridiculous, at least, not in the online world. Let's just say I'd have to be pretty hungry to say yes to that again!

Best,
Shirley

-----Original Message-----
From: johnrobmoore <bigfish@pacbell.net>
To: Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sat, Feb 19, 2011 5:40 pm
Subject: [Avid-L2] Re: Symphony owners?

Not fun to do but I don't always have the luxury to decline work just because I

don't like the tool. Come to think of it I virtually never have a good reason

to decline work these days but I do feel your pain.

--- In Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com, "Terence Curren" <tcurren@...> wrote:

>

>

>

> --- In Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com, Shirley Gutierrez <guanacaa@> wrote:

>

>

> <<I had to CC a feature documentary on MC only once, and I'll never consent to

do that again. >>

>

>

>

> Seconded!!!!!

>

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[Avid-L2] Re: Batch Digital Cut

 

Use to do this with auto assembly on cmx and editshare. I'd love to have that functionality in Avid.

--- In Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com, Greg Huson <Greg@...> wrote:
>
> This is something we were asking for back when I ran a *fire at FOX. Since it was a big install (4 or 5 systems, all on Onyx IIRC at the time, circa 1999) it would appear that they eventually got what we wanted! Makes me wonder if I should be investigating *smoke again... been meaning to, but there are only so many hours in a day. 'Batch Output' is an awesome tool for promo, where you might just need to change tags or slates only on a long string out. No way to do it in Avid, I'm certain.
>
> gh
> ----------------------------------------------------
> Greg Huson
> Secret Headquarters, Inc
> Post Production / Production
> Culver City, CA
> 323 677 2092
> 323 677 2096 F
> www.DigitalServiceStation.com
> greg (at) SecretHQ.com
> www.SecretHQ.com
>
>
>
> On Feb 19, 2011, at 9:23 AM, gochya wrote:
>
> > AFAIK, there is no way to replicate this in Avid. Each punch requires its own output. In Smoke 2011 the output list has even been improved making it easier to manage batch outputs.
> >
> > Barry
> >
> > --- In Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com, "scottesmith1" <scottesmith1@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Firstly, thank you all to your help with my loss of a mini G-Raid. As someone who used Avid for offline, and onlined in Smoke for many years, is there a way of doing in Avid terminology a "Batch Digital cut." E.G., I have to replace slates in an SD master, down-converted from an HD 24P master. What is the most efficient way of doing this? In Smoke, there is no differenciation between clips and sequences, one merely selects each clip in the library and it will sequentially output them to tape.
> > >
> > > -Scott
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

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[Avid-L2] Re: Symphony owners?

 

Not fun to do but I don't always have the luxury to decline work just because I don't like the tool. Come to think of it I virtually never have a good reason to decline work these days but I do feel your pain.

--- In Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com, "Terence Curren" <tcurren@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> --- In Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com, Shirley Gutierrez <guanacaa@> wrote:
>
>
> <<I had to CC a feature documentary on MC only once, and I'll never consent to do that again. >>
>
>
>
> Seconded!!!!!
>

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[Avid-L2] Re: Symphony owners?

 

agree 100%.

--- In Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com, "oliverpetersvidy" <oliverpeters@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> Personally, I'm in the camp that says drop the product separation. Combine the features of Symphony and Media Composer and sell one product as a software-only system. Then sell the individual Avid hardware accordingly. So if someone wanted, they could have a Symphony/Media Composer with a Kona 3 at some point down the road. Or NitrisDX with AVC-Intra module.
>
> I don't care if you call it Symphony or Media Composer - whichever has the greatest brand appeal. The current reasons for keeping it separate are purely artificial, because Avid can still find customers to pay a premium price. How long will that last? Merge the two and then see if the market can support a new high-end box. Maybe it can't or maybe that's DS. In either case, it isn't Symphony without radical improvements.
>
> - Oliver
>

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Re: [Avid-L2] Symphony owners?

 

I own a Meridien Symphony. It's in mothballs. I now do all the editing
in MC5, and everything else via AE/Shake/Nuke/Color, but don't have what
I'd call a practical HD/2K CC workflow at the moment. If I had to make a
move right now I'd probably go Resolve or Scratch. I vote for a unified
product: MC + Symph CC + scriptsync. I'd pay $1000 for the upgrade from MC5.

--
Pete O
POP Pictures
Orlando

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[Avid-L2] Re: Symphony owners?

 

> Mark wrote:
> You mean like FCP?
> Sorry... couldn't resist! :)

The problem with the FCS workflow is the round-tripping. If you interactively have to bounce between FCP, Motion and Color numerous times, it's a very difficult workflow to navigate smoothly with a client sitting over your shoulder.

That's especially true in short-form, like spots and promos. Less so in long-form. You can do it, but what invariably happens is the project becomes a disaster with no easy way to track back through the data if you ever have to make changes down the road. That's where Symphony, Smoke. eQ/iQ/Pablo and DS excel.

That's also why often it's easier to stay inside FCP than to use the other tools, even if they offer feature advantages.

- Oliver

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