Saturday, January 9, 2010

Re: [Avid-L2] Re: Making the DX move - Just Prep

"j_mahavier" (10-01-2010 07:03) :

> I was told it would not be this easy. What am I doing wrong? I know it
> probably sounds asinine for me to say that, but really, what am I missing?
> What is going to go wrong with this method? How am I about to totally screw
> myself by doing this?

What you did was change the format of the sequence. That would likely have
altered the included clips. You then batch captured and batch imported the
referenced (modified) clips. Right?

You mentioned you would be doing this for unfinished projects. So there
might be much more than just sequence, and you would basically want to have
all source clips for the entire project batch captured in order to have full
editing flexibility. In the last week of editing, you may still need to
change to that one other take.

My theory on the BWAVs is that if you can get the clips to open in the HD
project, a batch import should work. Even thought the clips may have a
different TC, Batch Import AFAIK does not look at TC at all, it just
imported the file it is pointed towards, and does so bit-by-bit. The
metadata, at that stage, is not imported from the BWAV, it keeps the
metadata of the original master clip, which will be "filled" with media.

So what happens if you perform the same test, but rather than batching the
reference clips, you bring over the bins with the original master clips for
picture and sound, and try and batch those?

Or, what happens if you make sequences per shooting day of all footage, open
those in the HD project, batch all referenced clips (ergo: all clips) for
all those shooting day sequences? That should work, but what happens if you
then take any current or old sequence, will it link or relink to the HD
footage?


--
Job ter Burg
film editor - NL


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Re: [Avid-L2] Mixing 1080p and I

"chris magid" (09-01-2010 23:12) :

> BIG QUESTION: What does it do to 23.97p material cut into a 60i timeline. IS
> IT APPLYING pulldown on the fly?

It is applying a realtime Blended Interpolated motion effect to the 23.976p
footage, so it will play as 60i. So it would be doing some form of pulldown.
I'm pretty sure that it will apply regular 3:2 pulldown. If you like, you
can promote a motion adapter to a motion effect. Then you would be able to
use FluidMotion, which would yield very smooth results.

> And since it has to be doing it on a clip by
> clip basis how does dissolves between two clips with  "motion adapters"?

No problem. Just performs.

> What happens with 60i material in a 23.97p project?

As said, it's basically a Blended Interpolated motion effect with interlaced
source and progressive output. By converting it to an actual motion effect,
you get all the regular motion effect options.

I'm fairly certain that Terry Curren felt that the default effect was
broadcast ready. Unlike the FCP incarnation of mixed frame rates.

> If this is from a film to
> tape transfer or other file with pull down already in it can "motion adapters"
> remove that pulldown?

I think it will detect it correctly, yes. Also, I'm prettu sure you can
change the cadence setting for a clip, in the new Field Motion column in
bins.

> still have to mix a lot of the older tape based stuff into edits and graphics
> created at 60i. So that is why we like to use 60i projects as the common
> denominator. It is all for broadcast anyway.

I think this is why this feature is of so much benefit to so many editors
and facilities.

You could also choose to go the other way around. Capture/import the 23.976p
footage in a 23.976p project, but edit in a 60i project. Also, you could
switch to any other project format at any point in time as well. If you do,
and open your sequence, you will see that the "other" footage now has motion
adapters.

Another implementation would be if you use 60i footage in 23.976p projects
for pseudo-overcranking. You can use the 60i footage in a 23,976p project,
promote the effect to a motion effect, set the playback speed slower, and
voila.

--
Job ter Burg
film editor - NL

------------------------------------

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Re: [Avid-L2] Mixing 1080p and I

"Dom Q. Silverio" (09-01-2010 23:30) :

> It is similar to using the Fluidmotion FX like this....
> http://24p.com/conversion.htm

Pretty sure that the default effect is Blended Interpolated, rather than
Fluid.
--
Job ter Burg
film editor - NL

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[Avid-L2] Re: HDCam SR 24p q

I totally agree about not running in auto is a work around for Avid's lack of output stability when it comes out of a digital cut in a less than elegant manner. I wish there was some sort of hard proc like feature on the Nitris etc... output so the record machines would continue to have stable input until they come out of record. It's not just when the avid burps on output, hitting all stop, uh I mean space bar, can also tear a hole in the record tape. See I said "all stop" guess I'm pretty old school myself. ;-)

--- In Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com, Dennis Degan <DennyD1@...> wrote:
>
>
> As for using the external reference setting, I say if it works for
> you, fine. I'm old-school and feel that if there's a problem with
> using the AUTO setting, it should be addressed, not worked around (In
> this, I'm not referring to you, John. I mean that Avid should address
> it).
>
> Dennis Degan, Video Editor-Consultant-Knowledge Bank
> NBC Today Show, New York
>


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[Avid-L2] Re: Making the DX move - Just Prep

I can understand the video working because you never decomposed the sequence/ consolidated the sequence so the show reference clips will give you the original captured clips for the video. The audio must just import based on samples and not time code, just like a QT import starts at the first frame without reading the time code. Although I believe I read that there is time code support for QT imports in 4.x.(Someone else should confirm or deny this) BWF files ask for what the time code is on import IIRC.

Sounds like you're on the right track. The question would be what if you now take another SD sequence and modify it to HD will it then relink to your already captured HD clips.

If that relinks work what happens if you make a sequence or sequences in the sd project of a group of the source clips. This would assure all the source material is included even if it hasn't been cut into a sequence. Do the same Reference clip capture and audio import. Now will those clips relink to your SD modified to HD sequences?

I'm thinking of this strictly from a video editor perspective so I may be totally missing flaws the might effect the tracking of edgecode and all that other metadata associated with the flex file and film projects. Can you tell if the flex file type info is maintained? I don't know how SD to HD modification interacts with all that ancillary metadata. That's a question for Mr. 24P.com

--- In Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com, "j_mahavier" <jay_mahavier@...> wrote:
>
> Ok, so what am I doing wrong? Because this is seeming to be a lot easier than I was lead to believe. So before our new gear shows up I got my hands on a MojoDX and hooked it up to my box running MCv3.1.
>
> I did my regular log and digitize into the SD NTSC/23.976p project. I imported my 29.97/BWF audio files. I marked them up and synced. Then using those subclips I cut a short sequence together. I put that sequence in it's own bin.
>
> I then quit out of MC and took the SD media off-line. I then launched MC and opened a HD 1080/23.976 project. Opened that bin with the sequence in it. Selected and modified the format of the sequence to 1080/23.976. I then chose Show Reference Clips for the bin view. I chose the master clips and Batch Captured. I then Batch Imported the audio master clips. Result was the subclips and sequence are now on-line in HD, all in sync and frame accurate to the SD cut.
>
> I was told it would not be this easy. What am I doing wrong? I know it probably sounds asinine for me to say that, but really, what am I missing? What is going to go wrong with this method? How am I about to totally screw myself by doing this?
>
> Thank you,
> Jay
>
> --- In Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com, "johnrobmoore" <bigfish@> wrote:
> >
> > I'm confused too. The imported audio is the variable I have little experience with. For the Video you can take a sequence cut in ntsc 23.976 and convert it to HD 23.976 and this will modify the souce code to 24 frame code the downconverts were made from. Then decompose the sequence and recapture from the masters to dnx 36. The issues of 30 fps based wave file imports from a Deva are unknown and very scary to me. Mommy make all these scary time code monsters go away!!!! If you need all the raw material that's a reason I could see to go back to you original capture bins and modify those. Please keep us informed on what seems to work Jay.
> >
> > --- In Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com, "Dom Q. Silverio" <domqsilverio@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Michael
> > >
> > > I am missing something here. He is coming from 23.976 NTSC to
> > > 1080/23.976p @ DNX36.
> > > The frame count is the same.
> > >
> > > I think I misread something here.
> > >
> > >
> > > DQS
> > >
> > > phillipsm wrote:
> > > > I wish it were that easy! The metadata and everything around it is based on a 30fps base and is part of the clip internal metadata (MOB, etc.). Just switching the project over to HD will not work for 23.976/24 - only for formats that are of the same timecode/edit rate like 25 and 30.
> > > >
> > > > The START and END need to be within the :00 - :23 frame range. While your :00 workflow works for the START, it may not be true for the END. Also durations would need to adjusted because of the 2:3 pulldown relationship.
> > > >
> > > > You would need to export an ALE, adjust END to not be higher than :23. Don't include "duration" as part of the ALE, that will be recalculated from the import. Go back to the original V only master clips.
> > > >
> > > > Sound TC from your BWF would need to be considered as well. What was the original timecode rate used in production? If you import those into a 23.976/24 project, the timecode will be recalculated to a 24 frame source, but the original 30fps will be lost. If 30fps is the original rate, you are better positioned and halfway there. Keep your original BWF bins and import, make sure you duplicate START into SoundTC. The SoundTC continues to count as 30 even in a 23.976/24HD project, but this is how you will maintain the original TC and lists for later. Using The 30fps timecode in the START from a "project tab change" continues to count as 30, but with no consideration for pulldown - so EDL's will be off if START is used.
> > > >
> > > > Rebatch capture from the ALE, resync new subclips and your sources are fine... Sequences would need to be modified via the "modify command" then a relink done. Now... I have never tried the relink at the end to clips that are both tape based (picture) and import (BWF) so you may be entering new territory there... I remember this being done on "Gone Baby Gone" and it was painful.
> > > >
> > > > Michael
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- In Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com, "Dom Q. Silverio" <domqsilverio@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> Since they are the same frame rate,
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> Just change the project format to 1080p/23.976 and batch digitize
> > > >> away. The workflow is very similar to NTSC 30i to 1080i/59.94.
> > > >>
> > > >> Everything else will fall in to place.
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> Dom Q. Silverio
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> On Mon, Jan 4, 2010 at 4:02 PM, Jay Mahavier <jay_mahavier@> wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >>> Ok, I'm told that we have our DX upgrades on order. Once I get them
> > > >>> in I'm going to want to move our current project from MXF 3:1 to
> > > >>> DNxHD36. Now the project is NTSC/23.976/FilmMatchback. All shots
> > > >>> were logged from DVCam downconverts of SR/23.976 camera tapes. Almost
> > > >>> all or our clips were logged starting at the even second (xx:xx:xx:
> > > >>> 00). All the clips are AutoSync to audio from the RAM disk from the
> > > >>> DEVA. We already have sequences cut of a bunch of the material.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Is batch digitizing those clips logged as SD into HD as easy as select
> > > >>> and batch digitize? Or do I need to modify the master clips to be HD
> > > >>> then batch digitize? Or do I need to export a ALE file and reimport
> > > >>> it? Am I going to need to resync all my footage? Will the cut
> > > >>> sequences relink and update?
> > > >>>
> > > >>> We will be moving from MC v3 to MC v4.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> If someone had suggestions or can point me to a link or a page in a
> > > >>> manual I would really appreciate it.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Thanks,
> > > >>> Jay
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>> ------------------------------------
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Search the offical complete Avid-L archives at: http://archives.bengrosser.com/avid/
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Everything you MUST know about Color Correction in one book: http://tinyurl.com/ColorCorectionforvideo Get your copy todayYahoo! Groups Links
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ------------------------------------
> > > >
> > > > Search the offical complete Avid-L archives at: http://archives.bengrosser.com/avid/
> > > >
> > > > Everything you MUST know about Color Correction in one book: http://tinyurl.com/ColorCorectionforvideo Get your copy todayYahoo! Groups Links
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Dom Q. Silverio
> > >
> >
>


------------------------------------

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Re: [Avid-L2] Re: HDCam SR 24p q

> On Jan 8, 2010, at 3:34 PM, johnrobmoore previously wrote:
>
>> Another way around the issue would be to adjust the phase of the
>> Avid's output. Anybody know if adjusting the phase in the video
>> output
> tool effects the SDI output? It is labeled as the component phase so
> I don't know if that would effect SDI. Anybody have an idea?
>
> I answered:
>
> Phase adjustment is analog only (component HD-SD and/or composite
> SD). It doesn't affect SDI, as that is self-clocking/timing.
>
> Dennis Degan, Video Editor-Consultant-Knowledge Bank
> NBC Today Show, New York

On Jan 10, 2010, at 12:37 AM, johnrobmoore wrote:

> There is most definitely timing in the SDI world. There are windows
of tolerance that can be exceeded which will cause problems. The tek
scopes and others have timing functions. I have seen issues with Kona3
card outputs where a Sony 5500 would not except a 720P signal seeing it
as unrecognizable or something like that. Adjusting the vertical
timing of the Kona control panel a vertical line's worth got the deck
to accept the signal. At the same time a 5800 deck was okay with the
signal. IIRC according to Sony the window of tolerance for these decks
is 2.5 lines. Of course if the deck was set to input reference that
would not be an issue. I actually prefer to run external sync for a
5500/5800 to reduce the chance of punching a hole in the master tape if
the Avid dumps out of a digital cut. The garbage the Avid spits out
when crashing out of record wreaks havoc on the 5500 servo reference
when it is locked to video in. When locked to external I've had fewer
instances of this problem. It's hard to narrow it down precisely but
after adopting external reference I definately have had fewer problems
of that nature, coincidence? I think not.

While there is no subcarrier phase there is both horizontal and
vertical timing in an SDI system. Of course in a non linear bay with
only one source or record at a time the old issues aren't prevalent as
in a linear bay. I'm not saying there is a timing function for the
Avid sdi out but there are timing adjustments for studio environments
etc... So timing is not just for analogue.

I say:

You asked if the phase adjustment controls affect the SDI output. It
WAS my understanding that they do not. But to clarify, the presence of
an external reference DOES affect the SDI output and allows it follow
that reference. Unless I'm simply misinformed (which is becoming
clearly likely), the SDI output will sync with an external reference
but cannot be phased to it. However, the analog outs (component HD/SD
and composite SD) CAN be phase-adjusted.
There are, as you pointed out, a window of tolerance of SDI inputs.
Perhaps I am wrong and the phase adjustments DO affect the timing of
the SDI outputs, putting them more within range of the next device's
input timing window. This is an issue I've not seen, since as you've
noted I have no need to adjust the timing in a single Avid system.
As for using the external reference setting, I say if it works for
you, fine. I'm old-school and feel that if there's a problem with
using the AUTO setting, it should be addressed, not worked around (In
this, I'm not referring to you, John. I mean that Avid should address
it).

Dennis Degan, Video Editor-Consultant-Knowledge Bank
NBC Today Show, New York

------------------------------------

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[Avid-L2] Re: Making the DX move - Just Prep

Ok, so what am I doing wrong? Because this is seeming to be a lot easier than I was lead to believe. So before our new gear shows up I got my hands on a MojoDX and hooked it up to my box running MCv3.1.

I did my regular log and digitize into the SD NTSC/23.976p project. I imported my 29.97/BWF audio files. I marked them up and synced. Then using those subclips I cut a short sequence together. I put that sequence in it's own bin.

I then quit out of MC and took the SD media off-line. I then launched MC and opened a HD 1080/23.976 project. Opened that bin with the sequence in it. Selected and modified the format of the sequence to 1080/23.976. I then chose Show Reference Clips for the bin view. I chose the master clips and Batch Captured. I then Batch Imported the audio master clips. Result was the subclips and sequence are now on-line in HD, all in sync and frame accurate to the SD cut.

I was told it would not be this easy. What am I doing wrong? I know it probably sounds asinine for me to say that, but really, what am I missing? What is going to go wrong with this method? How am I about to totally screw myself by doing this?

Thank you,
Jay

--- In Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com, "johnrobmoore" <bigfish@...> wrote:
>
> I'm confused too. The imported audio is the variable I have little experience with. For the Video you can take a sequence cut in ntsc 23.976 and convert it to HD 23.976 and this will modify the souce code to 24 frame code the downconverts were made from. Then decompose the sequence and recapture from the masters to dnx 36. The issues of 30 fps based wave file imports from a Deva are unknown and very scary to me. Mommy make all these scary time code monsters go away!!!! If you need all the raw material that's a reason I could see to go back to you original capture bins and modify those. Please keep us informed on what seems to work Jay.
>
> --- In Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com, "Dom Q. Silverio" <domqsilverio@> wrote:
> >
> > Michael
> >
> > I am missing something here. He is coming from 23.976 NTSC to
> > 1080/23.976p @ DNX36.
> > The frame count is the same.
> >
> > I think I misread something here.
> >
> >
> > DQS
> >
> > phillipsm wrote:
> > > I wish it were that easy! The metadata and everything around it is based on a 30fps base and is part of the clip internal metadata (MOB, etc.). Just switching the project over to HD will not work for 23.976/24 - only for formats that are of the same timecode/edit rate like 25 and 30.
> > >
> > > The START and END need to be within the :00 - :23 frame range. While your :00 workflow works for the START, it may not be true for the END. Also durations would need to adjusted because of the 2:3 pulldown relationship.
> > >
> > > You would need to export an ALE, adjust END to not be higher than :23. Don't include "duration" as part of the ALE, that will be recalculated from the import. Go back to the original V only master clips.
> > >
> > > Sound TC from your BWF would need to be considered as well. What was the original timecode rate used in production? If you import those into a 23.976/24 project, the timecode will be recalculated to a 24 frame source, but the original 30fps will be lost. If 30fps is the original rate, you are better positioned and halfway there. Keep your original BWF bins and import, make sure you duplicate START into SoundTC. The SoundTC continues to count as 30 even in a 23.976/24HD project, but this is how you will maintain the original TC and lists for later. Using The 30fps timecode in the START from a "project tab change" continues to count as 30, but with no consideration for pulldown - so EDL's will be off if START is used.
> > >
> > > Rebatch capture from the ALE, resync new subclips and your sources are fine... Sequences would need to be modified via the "modify command" then a relink done. Now... I have never tried the relink at the end to clips that are both tape based (picture) and import (BWF) so you may be entering new territory there... I remember this being done on "Gone Baby Gone" and it was painful.
> > >
> > > Michael
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com, "Dom Q. Silverio" <domqsilverio@> wrote:
> > >
> > >> Since they are the same frame rate,
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Just change the project format to 1080p/23.976 and batch digitize
> > >> away. The workflow is very similar to NTSC 30i to 1080i/59.94.
> > >>
> > >> Everything else will fall in to place.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Dom Q. Silverio
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> On Mon, Jan 4, 2010 at 4:02 PM, Jay Mahavier <jay_mahavier@> wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> Ok, I'm told that we have our DX upgrades on order. Once I get them
> > >>> in I'm going to want to move our current project from MXF 3:1 to
> > >>> DNxHD36. Now the project is NTSC/23.976/FilmMatchback. All shots
> > >>> were logged from DVCam downconverts of SR/23.976 camera tapes. Almost
> > >>> all or our clips were logged starting at the even second (xx:xx:xx:
> > >>> 00). All the clips are AutoSync to audio from the RAM disk from the
> > >>> DEVA. We already have sequences cut of a bunch of the material.
> > >>>
> > >>> Is batch digitizing those clips logged as SD into HD as easy as select
> > >>> and batch digitize? Or do I need to modify the master clips to be HD
> > >>> then batch digitize? Or do I need to export a ALE file and reimport
> > >>> it? Am I going to need to resync all my footage? Will the cut
> > >>> sequences relink and update?
> > >>>
> > >>> We will be moving from MC v3 to MC v4.
> > >>>
> > >>> If someone had suggestions or can point me to a link or a page in a
> > >>> manual I would really appreciate it.
> > >>>
> > >>> Thanks,
> > >>> Jay
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> ------------------------------------
> > >>>
> > >>> Search the offical complete Avid-L archives at: http://archives.bengrosser.com/avid/
> > >>>
> > >>> Everything you MUST know about Color Correction in one book: http://tinyurl.com/ColorCorectionforvideo Get your copy todayYahoo! Groups Links
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ------------------------------------
> > >
> > > Search the offical complete Avid-L archives at: http://archives.bengrosser.com/avid/
> > >
> > > Everything you MUST know about Color Correction in one book: http://tinyurl.com/ColorCorectionforvideo Get your copy todayYahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Dom Q. Silverio
> >
>


------------------------------------

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[Avid-L2] Re: HDCam SR 24p q

There is most definitely timing in the SDI world. There are windows of tolerance that can be exceeded which will cause problems. The tek scopes and others have timing functions. I have seen issues with Kona3 card outputs where a Sony 5500 would not except a 720P signal seeing it as unrecognizable or something like that. Adjusting the vertical timing of the Kona control panel a vertical line's worth got the deck to accept the signal. At the same time a 5800 deck was okay with the signal. IIRC according to Sony the window of tolerance for these decks is 2.5 lines. Of course if the deck was set to input reference that would not be an issue. I actually prefer to run external sync for a 5500/5800 to reduce the chance of punching a hole in the master tape if the Avid dumps out of a digital cut. The garbage the Avid spits out when crashing out of record wreaks havoc on the 5500 servo reference when it is locked to video in. When locked to external I've had fewer instances of this problem. It's hard to narrow it down precisely but after adopting external reference I definately have had fewer problems of that nature, coincidence? I think not.

While there is no subcarrier phase there is both horizontal and vertical timing in an SDI system. Of course in a non linear bay with only one source or record at a time the old issues aren't prevalent as in a linear bay. I'm not saying there is a timing function for the Avid sdi out but there are timing adjustments for studio environments etc... So timing is not just for analogue.

--- In Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com, Dennis Degan <DennyD1@...> wrote:
>
>
> On Jan 8, 2010, at 3:34 PM, johnrobmoore wrote:
>
> > Another way around the issue would be to adjust the phase of the
> Avid's output. Anybody know if adjusting the phase in the video output
> tool effects the SDI output? It is labeled as the component phase so I
> don't know if that would effect SDI. Anybody have an idea?
>
> I answer:
>
> Phase adjustment is analog only (component HD-SD and/or composite SD).
> It doesn't affect SDI, as that is self-clocking/timing.
>
> Dennis Degan, Video Editor-Consultant-Knowledge Bank
> NBC Today Show, New York
>


------------------------------------

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Re: [Avid-L2] Signal intergraty of broadcast/cable between channels?

Resulting in the universal response, "It's leaving here fine."

DD

Dennis Degan wrote:
>
>
>
> On Jan 8, 2010, at 2:30 PM, John Moore wrote:
>
> > Am I wrong to thing that the direct tv signal path is more direct (no
> pun intended) than a cable company. Do cable companies compress the
> signal more or less than direct tv? IIRC direct tv is an mpeg 2
> stream. Can anyone shed some light on the signal path from a cable
> network to direct tv vs. a cable channel?
>
> I say:
>
> I guess no one else is going to go for this so I will try. I do not
> work for DirecTV nor a cable company (yet!) but I have a basic
> understanding of satellite delivery. To compare cable delivery with
> satellite delivery, let's start at the source of each program and
> follow the path to your home in each case: Most programs originate
> from a network master control facility which feeds a satellite uplink
> site. In many cases these two are one and the same, but not always.
> Nowadays, the connection between the network master control and the
> uplink is a high-quality digital one, either by HD-SDI or ASI through a
> fiber-optic terrestrial link or microwave link or directly. The feed
> at this point is uncompressed and not likely to be impaired in any way.
> But once the signal reaches the uplink facility, it must be compressed
> along with other feeds in order to be uplinked to the cable network
> satellite. Though this transmission is usually much less compressed
> than the signal you ultimately receive at home, it still is compressed
> so that many different feeds can fit onto the satellite transponder
> (many transponders carry as many as 10 feeds or more at once). There
> are several formats for uplink compression. MPEG2 is one of them.
> Others are proprietary and encrypted.
> At this point, both cable and satellite-delivered systems see the same
> quality signal. Both receive their programs from the same C-band
> (usually) satellites. However, the many feeds available for
> distribution may differ in various ways from one another. Each cable
> network or group of networks has its own standard of quality and just
> as often, each may have mare than one master control site and/or uplink
> facility which may differ slightly in performance. Despite this, all
> delivery systems use the same sources for their programs: usually a
> group of C-band satellites.
> From here on however, satellite and cable delivery systems differ in
> how they transport the signal to your home. In the case of your local
> cable system, the cable company downlinks the feed,
> decrypts/demodulates it, then recompresses and remodulates it onto your
> cable pathway. Many cable companies have downlinks in one location and
> headends in another, requiring some kind of terrestrial link between
> them. In these cases, this terrestrial link is usually a wideband one
> that carries many feeds at once, often already modulated for your cable
> pathway. The grouped feeds may be combined with other feeds at the
> headend and then fed on to your home. All of this is done without any
> of the feeds being re-modulated again. That is, once the feeds are
> modulated initially (digitally or as analog), they remain so right to
> your home. If they did demod-remod repeatedly along the cable path,
> you'd see impairments in the picture and sound, especially if they did
> this multiple times. Instead, the satellite reception is downlinked,
> decrypted/demodulated and remodulated ONCE, I think entirely digitally
> (although I'm not certain of that, but it's likely). This remodulation
> is the most likely point where degradation can take place. Since cable
> systems vary, results here can vary greatly from one system to another.
> They can even vary from channel to channel WITHIN a system if the
> process is done inconsistently between the various channels.
> After all the feeds are combined at the headend, other problems can
> arise along the way to your home, but usually these are bandwidth
> transmission problems that affect many channels, not individual ones.
> DirecTV and DISH Network satellite delivery work by retransmitting the
> cable satellite network feed at their master control sites. I recall
> that DirecTV's master control/uplink site is in Denver. I'm not sure
> where DISH Network's site is located. They take program feeds from
> various satellite downlinks and (like cable), decrypt/demodulate them,
> then recompress and remodulate them into a grouped feed for uplink to
> their own satellites. Unlike cable, satellite delivery has no wired
> infrastructure between the uplink site and your home. So the problems
> associated with a physically wired link between a cable's headend and
> your home are eliminated. But of course, satellite delivery has its
> own set of limitations which usually affect all channels equally.
> Conclusion: Differences between delivery systems will affect many (if
> not all) channels equally, NOT individually. The amount of data
> reduction (compression) done to the incoming feeds is similar for both
> satellite and cable delivery, though their formats may differ. If you
> see a difference between one channel and another on the SAME delivery
> system, it can probably be attributed to either errors in the
> conversion of the cable program to the system's own transmission format
> or more likely outright differences between the originating feeds
> themselves.
> Since there are many different program sources and many different
> delivery systems, this analysis cannot pinpoint an exact reason for you
> to see a particular problem with any single channel.
>
> Dennis Degan, Video Editor-Consultant-Knowledge Bank
> NBC Today Show, New York
>
>

--
David Dawkins
780-905-9121
dawk2@shaw.ca

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Re: [Avid-L2] Re: HDCam SR 24p q

On Jan 8, 2010, at 3:34 PM, johnrobmoore wrote:

> Another way around the issue would be to adjust the phase of the
Avid's output. Anybody know if adjusting the phase in the video output
tool effects the SDI output? It is labeled as the component phase so I
don't know if that would effect SDI. Anybody have an idea?

I answer:

Phase adjustment is analog only (component HD-SD and/or composite SD).
It doesn't affect SDI, as that is self-clocking/timing.

Dennis Degan, Video Editor-Consultant-Knowledge Bank
NBC Today Show, New York

------------------------------------

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Re: [Avid-L2] HDCam SR 24p q

On Jan 8, 2010, at 3:09 PM, Ken Sirulnick wrote:

> So we figured it out. Setup Menu 5 "Servo Ref" was set to EXT. Set
to Auto and it worked. No glitches and was able to insert edit to
tape. Apparently, using External Servo Ref, can be an issue if the
Reference phase is different from the input video phase.

I say:

I have NEVER set a VTR's ref to EXT. I have always used only AUTO if
it was available. It's just the thing to do and covers nearly every
setup.

Dennis Degan, Video Editor-Consultant-Knowledge Bank
NBC Today Show, New York

------------------------------------

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Re: [Avid-L2] Signal intergraty of broadcast/cable between channels?

On Jan 8, 2010, at 2:30 PM, John Moore wrote:

> Am I wrong to thing that the direct tv signal path is more direct (no
pun intended) than a cable company.  Do cable companies compress the
signal more or less than direct tv?  IIRC direct tv is an mpeg 2
stream.  Can anyone shed some light on the signal path from a cable
network to direct tv vs. a cable channel?

I say:

I guess no one else is going to go for this so I will try. I do not
work for DirecTV nor a cable company (yet!) but I have a basic
understanding of satellite delivery. To compare cable delivery with
satellite delivery, let's start at the source of each program and
follow the path to your home in each case: Most programs originate
from a network master control facility which feeds a satellite uplink
site. In many cases these two are one and the same, but not always.
Nowadays, the connection between the network master control and the
uplink is a high-quality digital one, either by HD-SDI or ASI through a
fiber-optic terrestrial link or microwave link or directly. The feed
at this point is uncompressed and not likely to be impaired in any way.
But once the signal reaches the uplink facility, it must be compressed
along with other feeds in order to be uplinked to the cable network
satellite. Though this transmission is usually much less compressed
than the signal you ultimately receive at home, it still is compressed
so that many different feeds can fit onto the satellite transponder
(many transponders carry as many as 10 feeds or more at once). There
are several formats for uplink compression. MPEG2 is one of them.
Others are proprietary and encrypted.
At this point, both cable and satellite-delivered systems see the same
quality signal. Both receive their programs from the same C-band
(usually) satellites. However, the many feeds available for
distribution may differ in various ways from one another. Each cable
network or group of networks has its own standard of quality and just
as often, each may have mare than one master control site and/or uplink
facility which may differ slightly in performance. Despite this, all
delivery systems use the same sources for their programs: usually a
group of C-band satellites.
From here on however, satellite and cable delivery systems differ in
how they transport the signal to your home. In the case of your local
cable system, the cable company downlinks the feed,
decrypts/demodulates it, then recompresses and remodulates it onto your
cable pathway. Many cable companies have downlinks in one location and
headends in another, requiring some kind of terrestrial link between
them. In these cases, this terrestrial link is usually a wideband one
that carries many feeds at once, often already modulated for your cable
pathway. The grouped feeds may be combined with other feeds at the
headend and then fed on to your home. All of this is done without any
of the feeds being re-modulated again. That is, once the feeds are
modulated initially (digitally or as analog), they remain so right to
your home. If they did demod-remod repeatedly along the cable path,
you'd see impairments in the picture and sound, especially if they did
this multiple times. Instead, the satellite reception is downlinked,
decrypted/demodulated and remodulated ONCE, I think entirely digitally
(although I'm not certain of that, but it's likely). This remodulation
is the most likely point where degradation can take place. Since cable
systems vary, results here can vary greatly from one system to another.
They can even vary from channel to channel WITHIN a system if the
process is done inconsistently between the various channels.
After all the feeds are combined at the headend, other problems can
arise along the way to your home, but usually these are bandwidth
transmission problems that affect many channels, not individual ones.
DirecTV and DISH Network satellite delivery work by retransmitting the
cable satellite network feed at their master control sites. I recall
that DirecTV's master control/uplink site is in Denver. I'm not sure
where DISH Network's site is located. They take program feeds from
various satellite downlinks and (like cable), decrypt/demodulate them,
then recompress and remodulate them into a grouped feed for uplink to
their own satellites. Unlike cable, satellite delivery has no wired
infrastructure between the uplink site and your home. So the problems
associated with a physically wired link between a cable's headend and
your home are eliminated. But of course, satellite delivery has its
own set of limitations which usually affect all channels equally.
Conclusion: Differences between delivery systems will affect many (if
not all) channels equally, NOT individually. The amount of data
reduction (compression) done to the incoming feeds is similar for both
satellite and cable delivery, though their formats may differ. If you
see a difference between one channel and another on the SAME delivery
system, it can probably be attributed to either errors in the
conversion of the cable program to the system's own transmission format
or more likely outright differences between the originating feeds
themselves.
Since there are many different program sources and many different
delivery systems, this analysis cannot pinpoint an exact reason for you
to see a particular problem with any single channel.

Dennis Degan, Video Editor-Consultant-Knowledge Bank
NBC Today Show, New York

------------------------------------

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Re: [Avid-L2] Re: Mixing 1080p and I

Sorry for the confusion.
Two different situations.
True 29.97p 1080 (no pulldown - full 30 frames) in a 60i project. File based via SxS or P2.
True 23.98p 1080 (no pulldown added) in a 60i project. File based via SxS or P2.
My preference is to tell folks to go ahead and shoot 23.98p as the Avid will add pulldown so they can get great 60i masters as they are accustomed to. AND NOT TO SCREW AROUND WITH 30p junk.
My concern is that the Avid pulldown insertion via "motion adapters" is not as nice looking as when cameras or decks add this to 23.98 frame rates. Opinions?
The other attached issue is using a varicam shooting 720 24p (over 60fps). We just pop these tapes in our deck and have it spit out very nice looking 1080i or SD 60i. 
What happens with the P2 varicam (2700)? At 24p. When over cranked to 48fps?
Chris Magid 
RTVF

--- On Sat, 1/9/10, johnrobmoore <bigfish@pacbell.net> wrote:

From: johnrobmoore <bigfish@pacbell.net>
Subject: [Avid-L2] Re: Mixing 1080p and I
To: Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com
Date: Saturday, January 9, 2010, 8:07 PM


 





At first you posted the material from the ex was 29.97P. Is it really 23.98 with pulldown. I thought you also said there was tape from the ex camera as well as files. In the SR tape world there is little difference to a 5500 deck between 59.94 1080I and 29.97 Psf electronically. The only difference electronically is the broad pulses. You can insert edit onto a blacked tape with either format. The machine will tell you what the signal type is. Of course you don't want a master bouncing back and forth cause somebody will raise a flag but as far as I can tell the tape plays just fine. When it comes to a file I don't know if Avid will balk at an import of say 29.97P into a 59.94I project. Certainly worth a try. My gut says if you have tape let the playback deck add pulldown and do the project in 1080I so all you other media will play nice.

Makes me wonder if there is a way to alter the files metadata from P to interlace like you can with cinema tools conform to a different frame rate. Perhaps one of our coding dudes can shed some light on how an ex file flags the video signal type.

--- In Avid-L2@yahoogroups .com, chris magid <chris_rtvf@ ...> wrote:

>

> Okay. Few questions. Haven't felt this stupid in a while. Still trying to wrap my head around some of this file based stuff.

> The format mixing in the new composer releases certainly adds some flexibility. 

> BIG QUESTION: What does it do to 23.97p material cut into a 60i timeline. IS IT APPLYING pulldown on the fly? What is the quality of this pulldown? Can you determine the pulldown cadence? And since it has to be doing it on a clip by clip basis how does dissolves between two clips with  "motion adapters"?

> That is my main concern. I want clients to shoot 23.97p for the "film look" they love. But the biggest part of that is the look and feel of pulldown.

> What happens with 60i material in a 23.97p project? If this is from a film to tape transfer or other file with pull down already in it can "motion adapters" remove that pulldown?

> What is the performance hit for this?

> Overall we still master to 1080i and 720i. In the past acquisition via tape based cameras added pulldown to 24p material as it was recorded or on capture via tape. Now with file based cameras the material remains 24p on ingest. We still have to mix a lot of the older tape based stuff into edits and graphics created at 60i. So that is why we like to use 60i projects as the common denominator. It is all for broadcast anyway.

>

> --- On Sat, 1/9/10, Job ter Burg (L2B) <Job_L2@...> wrote:

>

> From: Job ter Burg (L2B) <Job_L2@...>

> Subject: Re: [Avid-L2] Mixing 1080p and I

> To: Avid-L2@yahoogroups .com

> Date: Saturday, January 9, 2010, 3:33 AM

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>  

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> "Chris" (09-01-2010 02:09) :

>

>

>

> > Client shoots 1080p 29.97 on ex3. Has 1080i material on tape too.

>

> > Wants 1080i edit and sd 60i broadcast master.

>

> >

>

> > Advice on worflow? Project type? Mixing formats?

>

>

>

> Chris,

>

>

>

> You own a Symphony, right? So if you bump to v4, you can simply import or

>

> capture footage in a matching project type. So the 1080/29p would be

>

> imported into a 1080/29p project. The 1080/60i would go into 1080/60i. Then

>

> you can create any type of project and open the bins from any of the capture

>

> projects and instantly cut them into your show. There will be Motion

>

> Adapters applied automatically and in realtime.

>

>

>

> I think that 1080/29p is Symphony-only. So if you don't have a Symph, you

>

> might need to work around that a bit, by importing it into 1080/60i. There

>

> was some discussion on that on this list a while ago, don't remember the

>

> specifics.

>

>

>

> --

>

> Job ter Burg

>

> film editor - NL

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Re: [Avid-L2] Re: A little self promotion

Thanks for the reminder.
I just set the Tivo so I wouldn't forget while I sit here absorbed in
an After Effects project.


Benjamin Hershleder
http://ContactBen.com
http://Hershleder.com

Wear It In Post!
Fun T-shirts, mousepads & more
for Post Production Professionals
http://www.WearItInPost.com

On Jan 9, 2010, at 5:32 PM, Basil wrote:

> Hey Alan, thanks for the mention and looking forward to tonight's
> broadcast. A lot of water under the bridge with our Avid history,
> but it sure is nice to knock on the door next to mine and tap into
> your expertise. Thanks for all your guidance. If Alan doesn't know
> it, it ain't known!
>
> Basil
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

------------------------------------

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[Avid-L2] Re: Mixing 1080p and I

At first you posted the material from the ex was 29.97P. Is it really 23.98 with pulldown. I thought you also said there was tape from the ex camera as well as files. In the SR tape world there is little difference to a 5500 deck between 59.94 1080I and 29.97 Psf electronically. The only difference electronically is the broad pulses. You can insert edit onto a blacked tape with either format. The machine will tell you what the signal type is. Of course you don't want a master bouncing back and forth cause somebody will raise a flag but as far as I can tell the tape plays just fine. When it comes to a file I don't know if Avid will balk at an import of say 29.97P into a 59.94I project. Certainly worth a try. My gut says if you have tape let the playback deck add pulldown and do the project in 1080I so all you other media will play nice.

Makes me wonder if there is a way to alter the files metadata from P to interlace like you can with cinema tools conform to a different frame rate. Perhaps one of our coding dudes can shed some light on how an ex file flags the video signal type.

--- In Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com, chris magid <chris_rtvf@...> wrote:
>
> Okay. Few questions. Haven't felt this stupid in a while. Still trying to wrap my head around some of this file based stuff.
> The format mixing in the new composer releases certainly adds some flexibility. 
> BIG QUESTION: What does it do to 23.97p material cut into a 60i timeline. IS IT APPLYING pulldown on the fly? What is the quality of this pulldown? Can you determine the pulldown cadence? And since it has to be doing it on a clip by clip basis how does dissolves between two clips with  "motion adapters"?
> That is my main concern. I want clients to shoot 23.97p for the "film look" they love. But the biggest part of that is the look and feel of pulldown.
> What happens with 60i material in a 23.97p project? If this is from a film to tape transfer or other file with pull down already in it can "motion adapters" remove that pulldown?
> What is the performance hit for this?
> Overall we still master to 1080i and 720i. In the past acquisition via tape based cameras added pulldown to 24p material as it was recorded or on capture via tape. Now with file based cameras the material remains 24p on ingest. We still have to mix a lot of the older tape based stuff into edits and graphics created at 60i. So that is why we like to use 60i projects as the common denominator. It is all for broadcast anyway.
>
> --- On Sat, 1/9/10, Job ter Burg (L2B) <Job_L2@...> wrote:
>
> From: Job ter Burg (L2B) <Job_L2@...>
> Subject: Re: [Avid-L2] Mixing 1080p and I
> To: Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Saturday, January 9, 2010, 3:33 AM
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>  
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> "Chris" (09-01-2010 02:09) :
>
>
>
> > Client shoots 1080p 29.97 on ex3. Has 1080i material on tape too.
>
> > Wants 1080i edit and sd 60i broadcast master.
>
> >
>
> > Advice on worflow? Project type? Mixing formats?
>
>
>
> Chris,
>
>
>
> You own a Symphony, right? So if you bump to v4, you can simply import or
>
> capture footage in a matching project type. So the 1080/29p would be
>
> imported into a 1080/29p project. The 1080/60i would go into 1080/60i. Then
>
> you can create any type of project and open the bins from any of the capture
>
> projects and instantly cut them into your show. There will be Motion
>
> Adapters applied automatically and in realtime.
>
>
>
> I think that 1080/29p is Symphony-only. So if you don't have a Symph, you
>
> might need to work around that a bit, by importing it into 1080/60i. There
>
> was some discussion on that on this list a while ago, don't remember the
>
> specifics.
>
>
>
> --
>
> Job ter Burg
>
> film editor - NL
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>


------------------------------------

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Re: [Avid-L2] Mixing 1080p and I

Okay. Well. Now you are scaring me. I sincerely doubt that any process based on Avid motion fx can yield high quality results on par with the cross conversion and pulldown insertion done in camera or via VTRs like the Panasonic 1400 or HDCAM decks.
Comments?
Chris MagidRTVF

--- On Sat, 1/9/10, Dom Q. Silverio <domqsilverio@gmail.com> wrote:

From: Dom Q. Silverio <domqsilverio@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Avid-L2] Mixing 1080p and I
To: Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com
Date: Saturday, January 9, 2010, 4:30 PM


 





Yes it basically does a motion FX and apply a pulldown. Avid tracks the

pulldown for you.

It is similar to using the Fluidmotion FX like this....

http://24p.com/ conversion. htm

chris magid wrote:

> Okay. Few questions. Haven't felt this stupid in a while. Still trying to wrap my head around some of this file based stuff.

> The format mixing in the new composer releases certainly adds some flexibility.

> BIG QUESTION: What does it do to 23.97p material cut into a 60i timeline. IS IT APPLYING pulldown on the fly? What is the quality of this pulldown? Can you determine the pulldown cadence? And since it has to be doing it on a clip by clip basis how does dissolves between two clips with "motion adapters"?

> That is my main concern. I want clients to shoot 23.97p for the "film look" they love. But the biggest part of that is the look and feel of pulldown.

> What happens with 60i material in a 23.97p project? If this is from a film to tape transfer or other file with pull down already in it can "motion adapters" remove that pulldown?

> What is the performance hit for this?

> Overall we still master to 1080i and 720i. In the past acquisition via tape based cameras added pulldown to 24p material as it was recorded or on capture via tape. Now with file based cameras the material remains 24p on ingest. We still have to mix a lot of the older tape based stuff into edits and graphics created at 60i. So that is why we like to use 60i projects as the common denominator. It is all for broadcast anyway.

>

> --- On Sat, 1/9/10, Job ter Burg (L2B) <Job_L2@terburg. com> wrote:

>

> From: Job ter Burg (L2B) <Job_L2@terburg. com>

> Subject: Re: [Avid-L2] Mixing 1080p and I

> To: Avid-L2@yahoogroups .com

> Date: Saturday, January 9, 2010, 3:33 AM

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> "Chris" (09-01-2010 02:09) :

>

>

>

>

>> Client shoots 1080p 29.97 on ex3. Has 1080i material on tape too.

>>

>

>

>> Wants 1080i edit and sd 60i broadcast master.

>>

>

>

>

>

>> Advice on worflow? Project type? Mixing formats?

>>

>

>

>

> Chris,

>

>

>

> You own a Symphony, right? So if you bump to v4, you can simply import or

>

> capture footage in a matching project type. So the 1080/29p would be

>

> imported into a 1080/29p project. The 1080/60i would go into 1080/60i. Then

>

> you can create any type of project and open the bins from any of the capture

>

> projects and instantly cut them into your show. There will be Motion

>

> Adapters applied automatically and in realtime.

>

>

>

> I think that 1080/29p is Symphony-only. So if you don't have a Symph, you

>

> might need to work around that a bit, by importing it into 1080/60i. There

>

> was some discussion on that on this list a while ago, don't remember the

>

> specifics.

>

>

>

>

--

Dom Q. Silverio




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

------------------------------------

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[Avid-L2] Re: A little self promotion

Hey Alan, thanks for the mention and looking forward to tonight's broadcast. A lot of water under the bridge with our Avid history, but it sure is nice to knock on the door next to mine and tap into your expertise. Thanks for all your guidance. If Alan doesn't know it, it ain't known!

Basil

------------------------------------

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Re: [Avid-L2] Mixing 1080p and I

Yes it basically does a motion FX and apply a pulldown. Avid tracks the
pulldown for you.

It is similar to using the Fluidmotion FX like this....
http://24p.com/conversion.htm

chris magid wrote:
> Okay. Few questions. Haven't felt this stupid in a while. Still trying to wrap my head around some of this file based stuff.
> The format mixing in the new composer releases certainly adds some flexibility.
> BIG QUESTION: What does it do to 23.97p material cut into a 60i timeline. IS IT APPLYING pulldown on the fly? What is the quality of this pulldown? Can you determine the pulldown cadence? And since it has to be doing it on a clip by clip basis how does dissolves between two clips with "motion adapters"?
> That is my main concern. I want clients to shoot 23.97p for the "film look" they love. But the biggest part of that is the look and feel of pulldown.
> What happens with 60i material in a 23.97p project? If this is from a film to tape transfer or other file with pull down already in it can "motion adapters" remove that pulldown?
> What is the performance hit for this?
> Overall we still master to 1080i and 720i. In the past acquisition via tape based cameras added pulldown to 24p material as it was recorded or on capture via tape. Now with file based cameras the material remains 24p on ingest. We still have to mix a lot of the older tape based stuff into edits and graphics created at 60i. So that is why we like to use 60i projects as the common denominator. It is all for broadcast anyway.
>
> --- On Sat, 1/9/10, Job ter Burg (L2B) <Job_L2@terburg.com> wrote:
>
> From: Job ter Burg (L2B) <Job_L2@terburg.com>
> Subject: Re: [Avid-L2] Mixing 1080p and I
> To: Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Saturday, January 9, 2010, 3:33 AM
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> "Chris" (09-01-2010 02:09) :
>
>
>
>
>> Client shoots 1080p 29.97 on ex3. Has 1080i material on tape too.
>>
>
>
>> Wants 1080i edit and sd 60i broadcast master.
>>
>
>
>
>
>> Advice on worflow? Project type? Mixing formats?
>>
>
>
>
> Chris,
>
>
>
> You own a Symphony, right? So if you bump to v4, you can simply import or
>
> capture footage in a matching project type. So the 1080/29p would be
>
> imported into a 1080/29p project. The 1080/60i would go into 1080/60i. Then
>
> you can create any type of project and open the bins from any of the capture
>
> projects and instantly cut them into your show. There will be Motion
>
> Adapters applied automatically and in realtime.
>
>
>
> I think that 1080/29p is Symphony-only. So if you don't have a Symph, you
>
> might need to work around that a bit, by importing it into 1080/60i. There
>
> was some discussion on that on this list a while ago, don't remember the
>
> specifics.
>
>
>
>


--
Dom Q. Silverio

------------------------------------

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Re: [Avid-L2] Mixing 1080p and I

Okay. Few questions. Haven't felt this stupid in a while. Still trying to wrap my head around some of this file based stuff.
The format mixing in the new composer releases certainly adds some flexibility. 
BIG QUESTION: What does it do to 23.97p material cut into a 60i timeline. IS IT APPLYING pulldown on the fly? What is the quality of this pulldown? Can you determine the pulldown cadence? And since it has to be doing it on a clip by clip basis how does dissolves between two clips with  "motion adapters"?
That is my main concern. I want clients to shoot 23.97p for the "film look" they love. But the biggest part of that is the look and feel of pulldown.
What happens with 60i material in a 23.97p project? If this is from a film to tape transfer or other file with pull down already in it can "motion adapters" remove that pulldown?
What is the performance hit for this?
Overall we still master to 1080i and 720i. In the past acquisition via tape based cameras added pulldown to 24p material as it was recorded or on capture via tape. Now with file based cameras the material remains 24p on ingest. We still have to mix a lot of the older tape based stuff into edits and graphics created at 60i. So that is why we like to use 60i projects as the common denominator. It is all for broadcast anyway.

--- On Sat, 1/9/10, Job ter Burg (L2B) <Job_L2@terburg.com> wrote:

From: Job ter Burg (L2B) <Job_L2@terburg.com>
Subject: Re: [Avid-L2] Mixing 1080p and I
To: Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com
Date: Saturday, January 9, 2010, 3:33 AM


 





"Chris" (09-01-2010 02:09) :

> Client shoots 1080p 29.97 on ex3. Has 1080i material on tape too.

> Wants 1080i edit and sd 60i broadcast master.

>

> Advice on worflow? Project type? Mixing formats?

Chris,

You own a Symphony, right? So if you bump to v4, you can simply import or

capture footage in a matching project type. So the 1080/29p would be

imported into a 1080/29p project. The 1080/60i would go into 1080/60i. Then

you can create any type of project and open the bins from any of the capture

projects and instantly cut them into your show. There will be Motion

Adapters applied automatically and in realtime.

I think that 1080/29p is Symphony-only. So if you don't have a Symph, you

might need to work around that a bit, by importing it into 1080/60i. There

was some discussion on that on this list a while ago, don't remember the

specifics.

--

Job ter Burg

film editor - NL




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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[Avid-L2] Re: Mixing 1080p and I

Adding 29.97 interlaced footage into a 23.98 timeline will work, however, there are often motion artifacts. This is usually not a good plan for finishing although it will work fine for offline. Putting 23.98 footage into an interlaced timeline works better.

KEN

--- In Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com, "Job ter Burg (L2B)" <Job_L2@...> wrote:
>
> "Chris" (09-01-2010 02:09) :
>
> > Client shoots 1080p 29.97 on ex3. Has 1080i material on tape too.
> > Wants 1080i edit and sd 60i broadcast master.
> >
> > Advice on worflow? Project type? Mixing formats?
>
> Chris,
>
> You own a Symphony, right? So if you bump to v4, you can simply import or
> capture footage in a matching project type. So the 1080/29p would be
> imported into a 1080/29p project. The 1080/60i would go into 1080/60i. Then
> you can create any type of project and open the bins from any of the capture
> projects and instantly cut them into your show. There will be Motion
> Adapters applied automatically and in realtime.
>
> I think that 1080/29p is Symphony-only. So if you don't have a Symph, you
> might need to work around that a bit, by importing it into 1080/60i. There
> was some discussion on that on this list a while ago, don't remember the
> specifics.
>
> --
> Job ter Burg
> film editor - NL
>


------------------------------------

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Re: [Avid-L2] Spoken word search - Video Editing, Production

A few ideas:
1. a tool that would ID/flag variations in dialogue. e.g. in take 4 the
actor read the wrong line, or the line was changed.
2. integration with metasync for subtitles
3. a timing tool i.e. higlighted text = 22sec
4. search/compare dialogue in sequences
5. translation search - find English dialogue in French script.

Pete Opotowsky
POP Pictures
Orlando

On 1/6/2010 11:12 AM, kip.watters wrote<snip>:
>
> I am interested in hearing your thoughts on other ways that search of spoken word content in audio and video would benefit the professional video editing community.
>
>
>
>

------------------------------------

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[Avid-L2] And when the advertising dollars leave?

<<http://abcnews.go.com/Business/pepsis-big-gamble-ditching-super-bowl-social-media/story?id=9402514>>
--
Terence Curren
Burbank, CA
www.alphadogs.tv
www.digitalservicestation.com


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Re: [Avid-L2] Mixing 1080p and I

"Chris" (09-01-2010 02:09) :

> Client shoots 1080p 29.97 on ex3. Has 1080i material on tape too.
> Wants 1080i edit and sd 60i broadcast master.
>
> Advice on worflow? Project type? Mixing formats?

Chris,

You own a Symphony, right? So if you bump to v4, you can simply import or
capture footage in a matching project type. So the 1080/29p would be
imported into a 1080/29p project. The 1080/60i would go into 1080/60i. Then
you can create any type of project and open the bins from any of the capture
projects and instantly cut them into your show. There will be Motion
Adapters applied automatically and in realtime.

I think that 1080/29p is Symphony-only. So if you don't have a Symph, you
might need to work around that a bit, by importing it into 1080/60i. There
was some discussion on that on this list a while ago, don't remember the
specifics.

--
Job ter Burg
film editor - NL

------------------------------------

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