Re: [Avid-L2] CPU cores, speed, number of... diminishing returns?

re: "Moveable yes.  Portable... probably a stretch.  ;-)"

My dad always said, referring to his larger photographic equipment:

"...they put a handle on a rupture and call it a 'portable.' "

--  Sol

On Friday, December 16, 2022 at 08:49:17 AM EST, Karl Knowles <tech@knowlesvideo.com> wrote:

Laptops. 

Portable is the descriptor HP uses for their laptop workstation line that's stuck with me.

Although for years through the XW and Z8## series of HP desktop workstations those did go on the road too.  They fit quite nicely in road cases built for Sony BVW/DVW units.  Moveable yes.  Portable... probably a stretch.  ;-)

Cheers

Re: [Avid-L2] CPU cores, speed, number of... diminishing returns?

Laptops. 

Portable is the descriptor HP uses for their laptop workstation line that's stuck with me.

Although for years through the XW and Z8## series of HP desktop workstations those did go on the road too.  They fit quite nicely in road cases built for Sony BVW/DVW units.  Moveable yes.  Portable... probably a stretch.  ;-)

Cheers

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Re: [Avid-L2] CPU cores, speed, number of... diminishing returns?

By "portable workstations" do you mean laptops or is that a description of your entire mobile kit?

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Re: [Avid-L2] CPU cores, speed, number of... diminishing returns?

Hi Tod,

Thanks for your thoughts, they confirm my suppositions.  The portable workstation model is most certainly fitting my current editing needs at a price point that allows me at least 2 portables to the price of a single tower.

Cheers

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Re: [Avid-L2] CPU cores, speed, number of... diminishing returns?

Hey Greg,

I did briefly look at the AMD Threadripper option, but not in detail.  Time to dig a little deeper.

I am familiar with the HP Remarketing site.  I wish it was more user friendly for searching.  I never signed up for an email list, perhaps that's a better option. 

Dell's version, their Business Outlet, has been my go-to over the past year.  The inventory is feature/model searchable and Dell has been VERY aggressive with their pricing.  Each of the four "refurbished" portable workstations I've purchased have arrived in brand new condition.  And (hopefully not to sound like a fanboy) Dell offers a ProSupport Plus plan (available 1 to 5 years) that includes next day service and accident damage coverage for about $125/yr.

I use the portable workstations on the road a lot (roughly 40 events a year) so that coverage is worth it.

Cheers!

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Re: [Avid-L2] CPU cores, speed, number of... diminishing returns?

Tod totally sums this up with a cool catchphrase!!

If you need peak power, you need a tower.

Boom! ^_^

--

Tim McLaughlin

On Wed, Dec 14, 2022 at 9:45 AM todhop <hoplist@hillmanncarr.com> wrote:

Caveat, I am not up-to-date on Avid specific compatibilities so I am speaking generally.

My questions are: 

Have CPU's reached a performance point where a single is sufficient and a dual setup doesn't justify the cost in non-effects heavy post?

Yes. Cores not CPUs. Multiple CPUs were made obsolete by high core counts. Cores are more efficient so a single multi-core is faster than dual CPUs with the same total cores. CPU codec acceleration, specifically h264 and 265 acceleration are also key. Almost all modern CPUs have this, and h264 is the most common camera codec. Mac M1s also have ProRes acceleration. I do not know the specifics of Media Composer's use of these accelerations, but they are critical to Premiere and Final Cut and have changed the power equation dramatically.

Are towers even necessary any more for routine file-based editing?

No, not really. There are two major reasons for towers: cooling and customization. Towers are built to be customized. However, both of these needs are becoming less important as CPUs get much cooler and systems become fundamentally more powerful and connectable, and therefor require less modification over time.

For example, I just purchased a Mac Studio. This box can't be modified, but it has more than enough horsepower to edit 4K video with aplomb, and with thunderbolt connections, add-ons are externalized. Is this the peak of performance? No. Is it more than enough for most editors? Yes.

If you need peak power, you need a tower. Otherwise, you don't really. That doesn't mean a tower is a bad idea. Towers can be more cost effective and are upgradable, so you can spend less now and upgrade later if needed. If you have the space and sound is not an issue, a tower may still be the way to go.

Cheers,

                Tod

Cheers,

Karl Knowles
Tallahassee, FL

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Re: [Avid-L2] CPU cores, speed, number of... diminishing returns?

I don't follow the latest info anymore, but I got an amazing year-end deal from Lenovo a few years back.  I'm mostly just a bum now, and mostly run Resolve when I have worked the last two years, but the AMD 'threadripper' based p620 has been a GREAT machine, even without considering the low price.  No thunderbolt, but I have a mac laptop for the rare occasion I need to copy media off a tbolt.  

Alternatively, back when I had multiple edit bays and workstations, I was emailed the 'HP Remarketing' daily inventory.  Got great deals on a few killer machines (for their time) off that list over the years.  If you're not familiar, google around to find that and see if they have what you're looking for.

gh

----------------------------------------------------
Greg Huson
GK Huson, LLC
Secret Headquarters, Inc
San Pedro, CA

On Dec 14, 2022, at 6:50 AM, Karl Knowles via groups.io <tech=knowlesvideo.com@groups.io> wrote:

I've been shopping for a replacement Dell/HP tower workstation for a while now.  I've read the Avid specifications and recommendations and have explored a number of Good, Better, Best options.  CPU speed over core count is prominently stated.  The balancing equation of speed and core count is a gray area.  I've also noted a number of single CPU systems being certified.

I recently started using a Dell 7760 I9 11th Gen laptop for editing and find it performs surprisingly well for everyday HD file-based editing.  I just ordered a Dell 7770 I9 12th Gen with even more horsepower and will compare that to the 7760.

My gut tells me I would like a tower workstation for the main edit suite, that's what I've used since Adrenaline.   Yet, when I build a custom Dell or HP tower I feel as though I'm piecing together dated tech.  Surprisingly not a single major OEM is offering native Thunderbolt support in their towers, and their optional TB boards are behind the curve.  Nor will they divulge if/when they will offer native onboard TB support.  The tower CPU options also seem to be lagging behind those found in their laptops.

My questions are:

Have CPU's reached a performance point where a single is sufficient and a dual setup doesn't justify the cost in non-effects heavy post?

Are towers even necessary any more for routine file-based editing?

Cheers,

Karl Knowles
Tallahassee, FL

Re: [Avid-L2] CPU cores, speed, number of... diminishing returns?

Caveat, I am not up-to-date on Avid specific compatibilities so I am speaking generally.

My questions are: 

Have CPU's reached a performance point where a single is sufficient and a dual setup doesn't justify the cost in non-effects heavy post?

Yes. Cores not CPUs. Multiple CPUs were made obsolete by high core counts. Cores are more efficient so a single multi-core is faster than dual CPUs with the same total cores. CPU codec acceleration, specifically h264 and 265 acceleration are also key. Almost all modern CPUs have this, and h264 is the most common camera codec. Mac M1s also have ProRes acceleration. I do not know the specifics of Media Composer's use of these accelerations, but they are critical to Premiere and Final Cut and have changed the power equation dramatically.

Are towers even necessary any more for routine file-based editing?

No, not really. There are two major reasons for towers: cooling and customization. Towers are built to be customized. However, both of these needs are becoming less important as CPUs get much cooler and systems become fundamentally more powerful and connectable, and therefor require less modification over time.

For example, I just purchased a Mac Studio. This box can't be modified, but it has more than enough horsepower to edit 4K video with aplomb, and with thunderbolt connections, add-ons are externalized. Is this the peak of performance? No. Is it more than enough for most editors? Yes.

If you need peak power, you need a tower. Otherwise, you don't really. That doesn't mean a tower is a bad idea. Towers can be more cost effective and are upgradable, so you can spend less now and upgrade later if needed. If you have the space and sound is not an issue, a tower may still be the way to go.

Cheers,

                Tod

Cheers,

Karl Knowles
Tallahassee, FL

[Avid-L2] CPU cores, speed, number of... diminishing returns?

I've been shopping for a replacement Dell/HP tower workstation for a while now.  I've read the Avid specifications and recommendations and have explored a number of Good, Better, Best options.  CPU speed over core count is prominently stated.  The balancing equation of speed and core count is a gray area.  I've also noted a number of single CPU systems being certified.

I recently started using a Dell 7760 I9 11th Gen laptop for editing and find it performs surprisingly well for everyday HD file-based editing.  I just ordered a Dell 7770 I9 12th Gen with even more horsepower and will compare that to the 7760.

My gut tells me I would like a tower workstation for the main edit suite, that's what I've used since Adrenaline.   Yet, when I build a custom Dell or HP tower I feel as though I'm piecing together dated tech.  Surprisingly not a single major OEM is offering native Thunderbolt support in their towers, and their optional TB boards are behind the curve.  Nor will they divulge if/when they will offer native onboard TB support.  The tower CPU options also seem to be lagging behind those found in their laptops.

My questions are:

Have CPU's reached a performance point where a single is sufficient and a dual setup doesn't justify the cost in non-effects heavy post?

Are towers even necessary any more for routine file-based editing?

Cheers,

Karl Knowles
Tallahassee, FL

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