Saturday, November 21, 2009

[Avid-L2] Re: Mac Smoke Official now new Sheriff in town now DSLR/DSMC?

http://bit.ly/51UfD5 for the 7D specs...

I would not mind getting one of these for christmas.. but my wife doesn't read the list

JDS
--- In Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com, "johnrobmoore" <bigfish@...> wrote:
>
> Do real day in day out cameramen want to use these hybrid cameras? I haven't been on the business end of an ENG camera for a long time so I'm curious what the guys doing the shooting feel. I look at the Scarlet info and all the different combos and my head spins almost as bad as the myriad of formats we are faced with now. Are these cameras going to augment more traditional cameras or replace?
>
>
> --- In Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com, "Terence Curren" <tcurren@> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com, IAN WILSON <ian@> wrote:
> >
> >
> > << And to the numbers, think Scarlet (want to take a guess at those numbers?),>>
> >
> >
> > In light of the 5D and 7D, not as big as you might be thinking.
> >
>


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[Avid-L2] Re: Mac Smoke Official now new Sheriff in town now DSLR/DSMC?

Do real day in day out cameramen want to use these hybrid cameras? I haven't been on the business end of an ENG camera for a long time so I'm curious what the guys doing the shooting feel. I look at the Scarlet info and all the different combos and my head spins almost as bad as the myriad of formats we are faced with now. Are these cameras going to augment more traditional cameras or replace?


--- In Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com, "Terence Curren" <tcurren@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> --- In Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com, IAN WILSON <ian@> wrote:
>
>
> << And to the numbers, think Scarlet (want to take a guess at those numbers?),>>
>
>
> In light of the 5D and 7D, not as big as you might be thinking.
>


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Re: [Avid-L2] Re: Mac Smoke Official now new Sheriff in town

Oliver, A bit of both really, the industry is changing again, on one
hand I am involved in a huge iPhone project, where it's just a
branding edit which I may do myself, on the other side it's a feature
with a good credit editor and RED, but more and more I am excepting
that the one man band option is the only way to go. I am seeing this
cutting into our business model all the time. Technolgy allows me to
compete with them. One of our projects inlvolves just being the
stewerd, it changes every day.

Ian Wilson
Colortape Productions
Ian@colortape.tv
0418 327 082
Via iPhone

On 22/11/2009, at 11:56 AM, "oliverpetersvidy" <oliverpeters@oliverpeters.com
> wrote:

> Ian,
>
>> IAN WILSON wrote:
>> Just out of interest I cut a small project the other day using
>> REDCineX on my MBP just using the QT proxeys (I could have equally
>> used one of our RR equipped MP's to do the same job), but the editing
>> and grading process would have been the same. I found it very doable,
>> sure this was just P&C stuff, but a lot of feature work that we do is
>> just that. You could "Smell" just how close that App was to being an
>> NLE,
>
> Are you speaking as an editor or an owner? You can "punch & crunch"
> in QT Player Pro and iMovie as well, but few of us would consider
> that professional editing. In fact, professional editing is light
> years away from there. What happens when you have 30-100 hours of
> footage piled up for a feature?
>
> - Oliver
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Search the offical complete Avid-L archives at: http://archives.bengrosser.com/avid/
>
> Everything you MUST know about Color Correction in one book: http://tinyurl.com/ColorCorectionforvideo
> Get your copy todayYahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>


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[Avid-L2] Re: Mac Smoke Official now new Sheriff in town

Ian,

PS: All kidding aside, I do see the potential of RED's apps for conforming. I was really talking about creative editing tools. In that sense, I wouldn't conceive of cutting a feature from scratch (no pun intended) on an iQ or a Smoke either.

It seems to me that Redcine was always designed as a conforming tool and the fact that it's as poor an application as it is proves how hard the job is. So, yes, I do believe the RED could come up with something that competes with Scratch, but I don't see it going anywhere past that, nor to I see any indication from RED that they have any larger ambitions than that.

- Oliver

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Re: [Avid-L2] Re: Mac Smoke Official now new Sheriff in town

Oliver, I must confess to sitting on the fence here. One side of me
knows you are correct, the other just wonders what Scarlet will do. I
am not sure that Cannon really understands our market yet. I do think
the major downside to all these "want a be" camera's is the ability to
grade from RAW, how big a factor that will be, will be answered
shortly with the Scarlet release.

Ian Wilson
Colortape Productions
Ian@colortape.tv
0418 327 082
Via iPhone

On 22/11/2009, at 11:50 AM, "oliverpetersvidy" <oliverpeters@oliverpeters.com
> wrote:

>> Terence Curren wrote:
>> In light of the 5D and 7D, not as big as you might be thinking.
>
> Here's a little reality check for Scarlet. At DV Expo a couple of
> months back, Canon reps stated that 15,000 Canon 5D cameras were
> still on back order worldwide. That was just as the 7D was starting
> to be shipped and before the 1DMarkIV was even announced. All
> totaled, I would imagine the various Canon, Nikon and Panasonic
> models will run into the many 10s of thousands of units. FWIW - none
> of them shoot video in any RAW mode.
>
> - Oliver
>


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[Avid-L2] Re: Mac Smoke Official now new Sheriff in town

Ian,

> IAN WILSON wrote:
> Just out of interest I cut a small project the other day using
> REDCineX on my MBP just using the QT proxeys (I could have equally
> used one of our RR equipped MP's to do the same job), but the editing
> and grading process would have been the same. I found it very doable,
> sure this was just P&C stuff, but a lot of feature work that we do is
> just that. You could "Smell" just how close that App was to being an
> NLE,

Are you speaking as an editor or an owner? You can "punch & crunch" in QT Player Pro and iMovie as well, but few of us would consider that professional editing. In fact, professional editing is light years away from there. What happens when you have 30-100 hours of footage piled up for a feature?

- Oliver

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[Avid-L2] Re: Mac Smoke Official now new Sheriff in town

> Terence Curren wrote:
> In light of the 5D and 7D, not as big as you might be thinking.

Here's a little reality check for Scarlet. At DV Expo a couple of months back, Canon reps stated that 15,000 Canon 5D cameras were still on back order worldwide. That was just as the 7D was starting to be shipped and before the 1DMarkIV was even announced. All totaled, I would imagine the various Canon, Nikon and Panasonic models will run into the many 10s of thousands of units. FWIW - none of them shoot video in any RAW mode.

- Oliver

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Re: [Avid-L2] Re: Mac Smoke Official

Interesting, thanks for the link

Ian Wilson
Colortape Productions
Ian@colortape.tv
0418 327 082
Via iPhone

On 22/11/2009, at 6:18 AM, "oliverpetersvidy" <oliverpeters@oliverpeters.com
> wrote:

> FWIW - here's a tutorial link to Smoke's current RED conform
> workflow. It also uses an FCP XML in this demo. Presumably most of
> this would also be applicable to Smoke on Mac.
>
> http://www.the-area.com/blogs/discreetuk/conforming_with_red_the_workflow
>
> The Area is Autodesk's official user community site.
>
> Another point to consider is that Autodesk systems can use a
> background renderer (Burn and Backdraft). In FCP terms this is sort
> of comparable to Compressor and Qmaster. In theory, this is where
> Red Rocket might conceivably find a place. Not for real-time
> integration into the app, but as an accelerated rendering tool.
>
> - Oliver
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Search the offical complete Avid-L archives at: http://archives.bengrosser.com/avid/
>
> Everything you MUST know about Color Correction in one book: http://tinyurl.com/ColorCorectionforvideo
> Get your copy todayYahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>


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[Avid-L2] Re: Mac Smoke Official now new Sheriff in town

--- In Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com, IAN WILSON <ian@...> wrote:


<< And to the numbers, think Scarlet (want to take a guess at those numbers?),>>


In light of the 5D and 7D, not as big as you might be thinking.

------------------------------------

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Re: [Avid-L2] Re: Mac Smoke Official

Cross Post.

My understanding, there is now only the one SDK, Assimlate and Apple
are working on the same playing field. With the same caution you
expressed, there is something else going on here. Watch this space,
with the imminent Scarlet release the numbers and the stakes go up.

Ian Wilson
Colortape Productions
Ian@colortape.tv
0418 327 082
Via iPhone

On 22/11/2009, at 3:04 AM, "Tony Quinsee-Jover" <tony@hdheaven.co.uk>
wrote:

> Hmmm... I have to be very careful what I say here. So choosing my
> words with
> said care...
>
> A (non Avid) developer that I know has suggested to me that if Mr
> Sunglasses
> would allow deeper access to .r3d files than is currently permitted
> through
> the SDK then with current PC and GPU technology it would be possible
> to have
> far faster and more effective access to the files, and MUCH quicker
> processing (including debayering). Assimilate have already shown
> what they
> can achieve with direct access to .r3d files but the same developer
> reckoned
> that processing could be an order of magnitude faster than that
> achieved by
> Scratch... "You just need to think laterally" he told me.
>
> Maybe he was wrong. Maybe he wasn't. Either way, for those
> companies not
> in bed with Red, the SDK is undoubtedly the crippling factor right
> now, and
> not GPU/CPU speed.
>
> Tony
>
>
> HD Heaven Limited (company no: 04620550) is registered in England
> and Wales
> at Branston Court, Branston Street, Birmingham BL8 6BA
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com] On
> Behalf Of
> oliverpetersvidy
> Sent: 21 November 2009 14:38
> To: Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Avid-L2] Re: Mac Smoke Official
>
> Ian,
>
> I think the whole resistance we have to the RR idea is because it
> goes in
> the opposite direction of everything being done by every NLE (and
> other
> video gear) manufacturer. Everyone is moving towards - or being pushed
> towards - "off-the-shelf" hardware + custom software. And they are
> all doing
> it for the obvious reason that it is the only sustainable business
> model if
> you aren't a boutique developer. This means that more and more of
> the heavy
> lifting is being done by CPUs and to a greater extent GPUs. This means
> NVIDIA, ATI and potentially Matrox.
>
> In order for RR to work within the NLE video stream, it basically
> has to
> function in the same way a GPU inside an NVIDIA or ATI card does now.
> Multi-stream commands have to be decompressed, combined with effects,
> displayed and ultimately re-encoded. Currently it's the software+CPU
> that's
> doing the decoding and re-encoding and the CPU+GPU does the rest.
> You are
> now expecting the RR card to do both and I just don't see that
> happening.
> ATI's and NVIDIA's advancements come because of video game
> development - a
> mass market driver. NLEs reap the benefits of that work.
>
> You may be right that ultimately RED has to build its own special
> purpose
> NLE. If so, I wouldn't expect it to be very viable for anything
> other than
> exclusively REDCODE media projects. Think in the context of your own
> case.
> You have discussed using P2 and Canon media with your RED. How does
> that
> work in the native REDCODE/RR world? I don't think it does.
>
> Don't expect Smoke on Mac to be the answer to this. Autodesk/
> Discreet has
> never made there own hardware. Going to the Mac means embracing even
> less
> customized gear than Smoke on Linux. If anything, I'd place my bets on
> Quantel. They are more likely to still tinker with the "off-the-shelf"
> products and blend those with proprietary tools to get advanced
> results.
>
> So the bottom line for me is that RR will probably be a fast decoder
> to go
> to displays or an intermediate codec for quite some time. At best,
> it may
> become the core of a DVS or Assimilate-style assembler/grader.
>
> - Oliver
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Search the offical complete Avid-L archives at: http://archives.bengrosser.com/avid/
>
> Everything you MUST know about Color Correction in one book: http://tinyurl.com/ColorCorectionforvideo
> Get your copy todayYahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>


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[Avid-L2] Mac Smoke Official now new Sheriff in town

Thanks for your insite Oliver, as always very interesting.

Just out of interest I cut a small project the other day using
REDCineX on my MBP just using the QT proxeys (I could have equally
used one of our RR equipped MP's to do the same job), but the editing
and grading process would have been the same. I found it very doable,
sure this was just P&C stuff, but a lot of feature work that we do is
just that. You could "Smell" just how close that App was to being an
NLE, add dissolves and speed ramps and you are there, if you and
Philip are correct about the number of potential sales preceventing
Apple from playing, that button is about to be firmly pressed by RED
or more likely by Assimlate. And to the numbers, think Scarlet (want
to take a guess at those numbers?), how are they going to cut their
stuff?

APPLE, AVID watch your arse, there is a new Sheriff in town and it's
free.

Hey Jim, how about for good measure you put it in the cloud and have
it run of the new Apple slate (I believe that's the name Apple will
use for their tablet device, nice synergy with our ancestors who use
to carve on slates to communicate. The Edit Cave has a nice ring to it).

Ian Wilson
Colortape Productions
Ian@colortape.tv
0418 327 082
Spalling via iPhone

On 22/11/2009, at 1:38 AM, "oliverpetersvidy" <oliverpeters@oliverpeters.com
> wrote:

> Ian,
>
> I think the whole resistance we have to the RR idea is because it
> goes in the opposite direction of everything being done by every NLE
> (and other video gear) manufacturer. Everyone is moving towards - or
> being pushed towards - "off-the-shelf" hardware + custom software.
> And they are all doing it for the obvious reason that it is the only
> sustainable business model if you aren't a boutique developer. This
> means that more and more of the heavy lifting is being done by CPUs
> and to a greater extent GPUs. This means NVIDIA, ATI and potentially
> Matrox.
>
> In order for RR to work within the NLE video stream, it basically
> has to function in the same way a GPU inside an NVIDIA or ATI card
> does now. Multi-stream commands have to be decompressed, combined
> with effects, displayed and ultimately re-encoded. Currently it's
> the software+CPU that's doing the decoding and re-encoding and the
> CPU+GPU does the rest. You are now expecting the RR card to do both
> and I just don't see that happening. ATI's and NVIDIA's advancements
> come because of video game development - a mass market driver. NLEs
> reap the benefits of that work.
>
> You may be right that ultimately RED has to build its own special
> purpose NLE. If so, I wouldn't expect it to be very viable for
> anything other than exclusively REDCODE media projects. Think in the
> context of your own case. You have discussed using P2 and Canon
> media with your RED. How does that work in the native REDCODE/RR
> world? I don't think it does.
>
> Don't expect Smoke on Mac to be the answer to this. Autodesk/
> Discreet has never made there own hardware. Going to the Mac means
> embracing even less customized gear than Smoke on Linux. If
> anything, I'd place my bets on Quantel. They are more likely to
> still tinker with the "off-the-shelf" products and blend those with
> proprietary tools to get advanced results.
>
> So the bottom line for me is that RR will probably be a fast decoder
> to go to displays or an intermediate codec for quite some time. At
> best, it may become the core of a DVS or Assimilate-style assembler/
> grader.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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[Avid-L2] Re: QuickBooks: What account to use for transcription

Makes total sense. Thank you SO MUCH!

--- In Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com, Curt Bailey <avid-l2@...> wrote:
>
> Wes,
>
> It is COGS, and you can either create an account called "Production Expense", or one called "Contract Labor - Job" depending on how detailed you want to get.
>
> Curt

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Re: [Avid-L2] Re: QuickBooks: What account to use for transcription

Wes,

It is COGS, and you can either create an account called "Production Expense", or one called "Contract Labor - Job" depending on how detailed you want to get.

Curt

--
Curt Bailey
curt@momentaproductions.com

On Nov 21, 2009, at 2:34 PM, wplate wrote:

>
> Is it an expense? or COGS? I don't know enough about accounting to know the difference. I just started reading "QuickBooks 2009 ALL-IN-ONE for Dummies" and it has a sub-book about the principles of accounting. I have a lot to learn.
>
> --- In Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com, "B Conner, Avid" <bconner.avid@...> wrote:
> >
> > Wes,
> >
> > Long ago, I created an Account in QuickBooks Pro named "Production
> > Services". Works for me, but then, I don't need my accounts to fit into
> > standard numbered accounts.
> >
> > My CPA has never dressed me down for it, so I guess it's OK . . . . for
> > me and my LLC.
> >
> >
> > Brian Conner
> >
> >
> > wplate wrote:
> >
> > > This is a QuickBooks question, but it is totally on topic since it regarding accounting for video production. Many of you are like I have until now been: editors without a single care about accounting. I still don't care much about accounting, but Wes Plate, Inc. is back in business so I find myself in QuickBooks a lot. Surely if we find the answer this thread will help others.
> > >
> > > I'm hoping one of you who also deals with bookkeeping can advise...
> > >
> > > So I'm paying for some transcriptions (I'm going to post a blog entry about the experience on my blog this week), I'm wondering what account I would use to record the expense. I probably have to create a new account, would be a different kind of account than an "expense"? It isn't Cost of Good Sold, is it?
> > >
> > > Gracias!
> > >
> > > -wes
> >
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Re: [Avid-L2] Re: QuickBooks: What account to use for transcription

I'll stand corrected if someone has specific accounting knowledge, but I
take it as an expense. Again, my CPA doesn't correct me on that point. FWIW.


Brian


wplate wrote:
> Is it an expense? or COGS? I don't know enough about accounting to know the difference. I just started reading "QuickBooks 2009 ALL-IN-ONE for Dummies" and it has a sub-book about the principles of accounting. I have a lot to learn.
>
>
> --- In Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com, "B Conner, Avid" <bconner.avid@...> wrote:
>> Wes,
>>
>> Long ago, I created an Account in QuickBooks Pro named "Production
>> Services". Works for me, but then, I don't need my accounts to fit into
>> standard numbered accounts.
>>
>> My CPA has never dressed me down for it, so I guess it's OK . . . . for
>> me and my LLC.
>>
>>
>> Brian Conner
>>
>>
>> wplate wrote:
>>
>>> This is a QuickBooks question, but it is totally on topic since it regarding accounting for video production. Many of you are like I have until now been: editors without a single care about accounting. I still don't care much about accounting, but Wes Plate, Inc. is back in business so I find myself in QuickBooks a lot. Surely if we find the answer this thread will help others.
>>>
>>> I'm hoping one of you who also deals with bookkeeping can advise...
>>>
>>> So I'm paying for some transcriptions (I'm going to post a blog entry about the experience on my blog this week), I'm wondering what account I would use to record the expense. I probably have to create a new account, would be a different kind of account than an "expense"? It isn't Cost of Good Sold, is it?
>>>
>>> Gracias!
>>>
>>> -wes


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Re: [Avid-L2] QuickBooks: What account to use for transcription

Wes,

Long ago, I created an Account in QuickBooks Pro named "Production
Services". Works for me, but then, I don't need my accounts to fit into
standard numbered accounts.

My CPA has never dressed me down for it, so I guess it's OK . . . . for
me and my LLC.


Brian Conner


wplate wrote:

> This is a QuickBooks question, but it is totally on topic since it regarding accounting for video production. Many of you are like I have until now been: editors without a single care about accounting. I still don't care much about accounting, but Wes Plate, Inc. is back in business so I find myself in QuickBooks a lot. Surely if we find the answer this thread will help others.
>
> I'm hoping one of you who also deals with bookkeeping can advise...
>
> So I'm paying for some transcriptions (I'm going to post a blog entry about the experience on my blog this week), I'm wondering what account I would use to record the expense. I probably have to create a new account, would be a different kind of account than an "expense"? It isn't Cost of Good Sold, is it?
>
> Gracias!
>
> -wes


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[Avid-L2] QuickBooks: What account to use for transcription

This is a QuickBooks question, but it is totally on topic since it regarding accounting for video production. Many of you are like I have until now been: editors without a single care about accounting. I still don't care much about accounting, but Wes Plate, Inc. is back in business so I find myself in QuickBooks a lot. Surely if we find the answer this thread will help others.

I'm hoping one of you who also deals with bookkeeping can advise...

So I'm paying for some transcriptions (I'm going to post a blog entry about the experience on my blog this week), I'm wondering what account I would use to record the expense. I probably have to create a new account, would be a different kind of account than an "expense"? It isn't Cost of Good Sold, is it?

Gracias!

-wes

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[Avid-L2] Re: Mac Smoke Official

FWIW - here's a tutorial link to Smoke's current RED conform workflow. It also uses an FCP XML in this demo. Presumably most of this would also be applicable to Smoke on Mac.

http://www.the-area.com/blogs/discreetuk/conforming_with_red_the_workflow

The Area is Autodesk's official user community site.

Another point to consider is that Autodesk systems can use a background renderer (Burn and Backdraft). In FCP terms this is sort of comparable to Compressor and Qmaster. In theory, this is where Red Rocket might conceivably find a place. Not for real-time integration into the app, but as an accelerated rendering tool.

- Oliver

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RE: [Avid-L2] Re: Mac Smoke Official

Exactly.


HD Heaven Limited (company no: 04620550) is registered in England and Wales
at Branston Court, Branston Street, Birmingham BL8 6BA

-----Original Message-----
From: Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
oliverpetersvidy
Sent: 21 November 2009 17:57
To: Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Avid-L2] Re: Mac Smoke Official

>Tony Quinsee-Jover wrote:
> Maybe he was wrong. Maybe he wasn't. Either way, for those companies
>not in bed with Red, the SDK is undoubtedly the crippling factor right
>now, and not GPU/CPU speed.

Which means it's a business and not a technology issue.

- Oliver

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Links

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[Avid-L2] Re: Mac Smoke Official

>Tony Quinsee-Jover wrote:
> Maybe he was wrong. Maybe he wasn't. Either way, for those companies not
> in bed with Red, the SDK is undoubtedly the crippling factor right now, and
> not GPU/CPU speed.

Which means it's a business and not a technology issue.

- Oliver

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RE: [Avid-L2] Re: Mac Smoke Official

Hmmm... I have to be very careful what I say here. So choosing my words with
said care...

A (non Avid) developer that I know has suggested to me that if Mr Sunglasses
would allow deeper access to .r3d files than is currently permitted through
the SDK then with current PC and GPU technology it would be possible to have
far faster and more effective access to the files, and MUCH quicker
processing (including debayering). Assimilate have already shown what they
can achieve with direct access to .r3d files but the same developer reckoned
that processing could be an order of magnitude faster than that achieved by
Scratch... "You just need to think laterally" he told me.

Maybe he was wrong. Maybe he wasn't. Either way, for those companies not
in bed with Red, the SDK is undoubtedly the crippling factor right now, and
not GPU/CPU speed.

Tony


HD Heaven Limited (company no: 04620550) is registered in England and Wales
at Branston Court, Branston Street, Birmingham BL8 6BA

-----Original Message-----
From: Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
oliverpetersvidy
Sent: 21 November 2009 14:38
To: Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Avid-L2] Re: Mac Smoke Official

Ian,

I think the whole resistance we have to the RR idea is because it goes in
the opposite direction of everything being done by every NLE (and other
video gear) manufacturer. Everyone is moving towards - or being pushed
towards - "off-the-shelf" hardware + custom software. And they are all doing
it for the obvious reason that it is the only sustainable business model if
you aren't a boutique developer. This means that more and more of the heavy
lifting is being done by CPUs and to a greater extent GPUs. This means
NVIDIA, ATI and potentially Matrox.

In order for RR to work within the NLE video stream, it basically has to
function in the same way a GPU inside an NVIDIA or ATI card does now.
Multi-stream commands have to be decompressed, combined with effects,
displayed and ultimately re-encoded. Currently it's the software+CPU that's
doing the decoding and re-encoding and the CPU+GPU does the rest. You are
now expecting the RR card to do both and I just don't see that happening.
ATI's and NVIDIA's advancements come because of video game development - a
mass market driver. NLEs reap the benefits of that work.

You may be right that ultimately RED has to build its own special purpose
NLE. If so, I wouldn't expect it to be very viable for anything other than
exclusively REDCODE media projects. Think in the context of your own case.
You have discussed using P2 and Canon media with your RED. How does that
work in the native REDCODE/RR world? I don't think it does.

Don't expect Smoke on Mac to be the answer to this. Autodesk/Discreet has
never made there own hardware. Going to the Mac means embracing even less
customized gear than Smoke on Linux. If anything, I'd place my bets on
Quantel. They are more likely to still tinker with the "off-the-shelf"
products and blend those with proprietary tools to get advanced results.

So the bottom line for me is that RR will probably be a fast decoder to go
to displays or an intermediate codec for quite some time. At best, it may
become the core of a DVS or Assimilate-style assembler/grader.

- Oliver

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[Avid-L2] Re: Mac Smoke Official

Ian,

I think the whole resistance we have to the RR idea is because it goes in the opposite direction of everything being done by every NLE (and other video gear) manufacturer. Everyone is moving towards - or being pushed towards - "off-the-shelf" hardware + custom software. And they are all doing it for the obvious reason that it is the only sustainable business model if you aren't a boutique developer. This means that more and more of the heavy lifting is being done by CPUs and to a greater extent GPUs. This means NVIDIA, ATI and potentially Matrox.

In order for RR to work within the NLE video stream, it basically has to function in the same way a GPU inside an NVIDIA or ATI card does now. Multi-stream commands have to be decompressed, combined with effects, displayed and ultimately re-encoded. Currently it's the software+CPU that's doing the decoding and re-encoding and the CPU+GPU does the rest. You are now expecting the RR card to do both and I just don't see that happening. ATI's and NVIDIA's advancements come because of video game development - a mass market driver. NLEs reap the benefits of that work.

You may be right that ultimately RED has to build its own special purpose NLE. If so, I wouldn't expect it to be very viable for anything other than exclusively REDCODE media projects. Think in the context of your own case. You have discussed using P2 and Canon media with your RED. How does that work in the native REDCODE/RR world? I don't think it does.

Don't expect Smoke on Mac to be the answer to this. Autodesk/Discreet has never made there own hardware. Going to the Mac means embracing even less customized gear than Smoke on Linux. If anything, I'd place my bets on Quantel. They are more likely to still tinker with the "off-the-shelf" products and blend those with proprietary tools to get advanced results.

So the bottom line for me is that RR will probably be a fast decoder to go to displays or an intermediate codec for quite some time. At best, it may become the core of a DVS or Assimilate-style assembler/grader.

- Oliver

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Re: [Avid-L2] Symphony Nitris DX OMF2 Audio export problem

Leave the conversion boxes unticked (i.e. leave the options at "Project")

Half way through (after the consolidate) you will be prompted to convert
to wav - accept at this point and the export will continue.

Cheers

JIm Howat


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Re: [Avid-L2] Say goodbye to your plasmas

That was me and awesome doesn't even begin to describe it. The 14" was playing Planet Earth and running next to what I think they said was an 85" dlp monitor. I was using that one to do a presentation on. So, the 14" did look a little small next the 85". At one point we had the same Blu-ray player feeding both monitors with a Blu-ray disc I had created during the demo and the difference was amazing. Even some broll shot on a consumer avchd camera looked more like looking through a window than you were looking at a monitor compared to the large one.
 Rick Emery
www.rickemery.com


________________________________
From: Steve Hullfish <steve4lists@veralith.com>
To: Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Fri, November 20, 2009 12:11:25 PM
Subject: Re: [Avid-L2] Say goodbye to your plasmas

 
Someone recently reported seeing a 14" OLED prototype that looked
awesome.

On Nov 20, 2009, at 11:02 AM, Rupert Watson wrote:

> I think Sony are working on OLEDs; standby...
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Re: [Avid-L2] Re: macs on avid

Just try launching Marquee . . . if it works for you, please report
back - it hangs on the MAcPro with SL I've been using.

On 20 Nov 2009, at 18:51, treepulp wrote:

Been running MC Soft (4.0.2) on my laptop with Snow Leopard for a
couple weeks and no major incidents.

-

+++
With best wishes,

Roger Shufflebottom
Avid Certified Instructor
http://www.bottom-line.tv
Tel: +44 1992 535 031 (UK)
Mobile: +44 7973 543 660

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Re: [Avid-L2] Re: (now) Marquee (was) Online Finishing Pan & Zoom- Alternative?

Have you guys tried it recently? It now resembles slightly warmed
syrup on a fast computer.

On 20 Nov 2009, at 01:44, chris magid wrote:

...in the still of a North Canadian night...

--- On Thu, 11/19/09, Terence Curren <tcurren@aol.com> wrote:

From: Terence Curren <tcurren@aol.com>
Subject: [Avid-L2] Re: (now) Marquee (was) Online Finishing Pan &
Zoom- Alternative?
To: Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thursday, November 19, 2009, 7:08 PM

+++
With best wishes,

Roger Shufflebottom
Avid Certified Instructor
http://www.bottom-line.tv
Tel: +44 1992 535 031 (UK)
Mobile: +44 7973 543 660

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Friday, November 20, 2009

Re: [Avid-L2] Re: Mac Smoke Official

On Nov 20, 2009, at 5:37 PM, IAN WILSON wrote:

>>
>> What's the projected sales of this new NLE? If it's relying on RED
>> then we're looking at maybe 12K sales worldwide (more than double RED
>> camera sales), which is simply not a viable number for companies to
>> invest in and be able to keep the price "reasonable".
>>
>> For comparison, *edit was killed with about 5,000 total users.
>
> So Philip, what's the end game here, is the RR cards doing a ProRez in
> RT as good as it gets?

maybe. I don't know. I do know that it's a business as well as a
creative occupation and the business side tends to dictate.

I think it would be great if Apple decided to hook into the RR card
(when available) to accelerate R3D decodes (or Adobe for that matter -
I don't think Avid will get there soon). And frankly, my recent
exploration of RED workflows has made me a huge fan of the RAW concept
and RED's implementation, but...

the pragmatic realist in me (or cynical old guy - your call) says that
I can't really make a *business case* for Apple (or Adobe) to support
RR. How much would it cost them to implement RR support vs how much
extra money will flow in as a result. Given the actual size of the
RED market (as opposed to the outsized influence it's had) I think I'd
find it hard to make that equation work.

Unless one or the other company decided that the cost wasn't that
great that it would be worth it as a promotional value. I'd say Adobe
are more likely to go that path than Apple. (And frankly, I like
Adobe's implementation of R3D best of the big three NLEs.)

Philip

Philip Hodgetts
President, Intelligent Assistance
AssistedEditing.com Fast First Cuts, Metadata Worfklows
Big Brains for Rent bigbrainsforrent.com
HD Survival Handbook 2009-2010
The New Now - Grow your business - ProAppsTips.com

Personal Blog http://philiphodgetts.com
Cell 818 335 3916

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Re: [Avid-L2] Say goodbye to your plasmas

We use them to stay warm here...

;)

D(snow tomorrow and on to a Canadian winter)D

tcurren wrote:
>
>
> The closest thing to a decent monitor we have is now outlawed in
> California,
>
> http://www.usatoday.com/money/media/2009-11-18-california-tv-energy-use_N.htm
> <http://www.usatoday.com/money/media/2009-11-18-california-tv-energy-use_N.htm>
>
> and it looks like soon the nation will follow.
>
> http://tinyurl.com/yz6uovu <http://tinyurl.com/yz6uovu>
>
> --
> Terence Curren
> Burbank, CA
> www.alphadogs.tv
> www.digitalservicestation.com
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>

--
David Dawkins
780-905-9121
dawk2@shaw.ca

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Re: [Avid-L2]Adding title black on exports, was Re: Green frames in DVDSP

Adding the black is for the benefit of the QuickTime Reference export to the program that makes your Mpeg 2 file, H264 file or other long GOP transcoder. The weak link here is that QuickTime doesn't appear to understand the 'blank' representation of filler at the top and bottom of sequences. So when you use a 3rd party application like squeeze, DVDSP, compressor or <insert favorite transcode software name here> the program has something to latch on to when it is transcoding frames.

This is generally a final step for finishing or outputting, so it shouldn't have to be an issue for someone later. Also, since I always name my title media descriptively, someone else will see "title black for slug" in the name of the clip, and be able to figure out what it is there for.

(which is better than one frame of a shot at the end of the sequence just to create a place holder, from a reel that wasn't delivered with the project...)

Dave Hogan
Burbank, CA


________________________________
From: johnrobmoore <bigfish@pacbell.net>
To: Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Fri, November 20, 2009 10:47:35 AM
Subject: [Avid-L2]Adding title black on exports, was Re: Green frames in DVDSP


Boy in this day and age the render of a black title is virtually insignificant compared to the grief the next guy who inherits the sequence gets trying to figure out what was going on since they can no longer recreate the title black they have to figure out what you did. Just like throwing a sapphire or BCC effect on a title the next guy in online gets hosed unless you slug in the actual title under the effect. Why would you export a long GOP codec to make a DVD? I'm not much of a DVD burner so I'm not up on the intricacies. For an SD DVD I recently read there no point in exporting anything better than DV25. HD is another matter. What would be a common export codec to make a blue ray or other HD DVD?

--- In Avid-L2@yahoogroups .com, Dave Hogan <mactvman@.. .> wrote:
>
> I second this recommendation.
>
> The other reason adding a piece of black title to top and bottom is that many of the codec's being exported to are long GOP, and having that second of black media at the top and bottom of the sequence allows mpeg or H264 or whatever codec something to latch on to for smooth playback start and stop when reviewing via QuickTime, or authoring a DVD. When DVD authoring, this usually gives you a little pad where you can place a start locator, since in DVD authoring, you can only start at the first frame of a GOP.
>
> Also, while video mixdown cures many such ills in the middle of a sequence, a second of title black at the top and bottom seems to still solve some problems with exporting.
>
> I like to use just the fill portion of the title black (step in to the title and drag it out onto the timeline) so that I don't have to render the title footage.
>
> Dave Hogan
> Burbank, CA
>
>
>
>
> ____________ _________ _________ __
> From: Benjamin Hershleder <Ben@...>
> To: Avid-L2@yahoogroups .com
> Sent: Thu, November 19, 2009 6:41:29 PM
> Subject: Re: [Avid-L2] Re: Green frames in DVDSP
>
>
>
> I'll add to Kenton's experience and advice.
> I've had this too -- I think the areas that were filler at the start
> would play as white in the QT.
> I am now of the habit of adding a 1 second black title at the top and
> tail of the sequence, then doing an Expert Render, and then doing the
> export.
>
> HTH,
>
> B
>
>
> Benjamin Hershleder
> http://ContactBen. com
> http://Hershleder. com
>
> Wear It In Post!
> Fun T-shirts, mousepads & more
> for Post Production Professionals
> http://www.WearItIn Post.com
>
>
>
> On Nov 19, 2009, at 5:32 PM, kenton.vannatten wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > Do you have any Filler in the sequence - specifically where the
> > green shows up?
> >
> > In the past, I've seen that sort of thing when there's a mismatch
> > between the QT versions that Avid requires vs what DVDSP (or other
> > such encoder) might be looking for.
> >
> > Some encoders don't process the Avid Filler very well. I'm assuming
> > you're using DVDSP to encode the file?
> >
> > FYI, a Video Mixdown should fix it - and you don't really need to
> > Mixdown anything better than DV25 as it's going to DVD.
> >
> > -kv
> >
> > --- In Avid-L2@yahoogroups .com, Lou Wirth <loutv@> wrote:
> > >
> > > I have an Avid QT reference I am using to make a DVD in SP. Done
> > > this a million times. This time, I get a few seconds of solid green
> > > before the movie starts. Tried several QT reference exports on two
> > > different systems and the results are the same. Timeline is DV
> > > material, fully rendered. MC 2.6.4, DVDSP v2. Has anyone encountered
> > > this? Doing a full QT export now but that will take a while.
> > >
> > > Lou
> > > Lou Wirth Productions
> > > 500Tamal Plaza, Suite 522
> > > Corte Madera, CA 94925
> > > www.louwirth. com
> > > 415-924-9411p
> > >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ------------ --------- --------- ------
>
> Search the offical complete Avid-L archives at: http://archives. bengrosser. com/avid/
>
> Everything you MUST know about Color Correction in one book: http://tinyurl. com/ColorCorecti onforvideo Get your copy todayYahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>



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Re: [Avid-L2] Re: Say goodbye to your plasmas

However there is a difference between backlit LED and Edge-Lit LED. You
have much better control over light, contrast & spill with back-lit.

I type this while watching Shrek3 on my big HDTV bottle (36XBR970), in
Indiana.

Quinton Lee, MIS
Q.A. Lee Consulting
Helping People and Technology Work Together


In a message dated 11/20/2009 1:25:07 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
steve4lists@veralith.com writes:

And I believe that the LED displays that people are talking about are
really just LCD displays, using LEDs as a backlight instead of the
flourescent or whatever is creating the backlight for the regular LCDs.

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Re: [Avid-L2] Re: Say goodbye to your plasmas

In a message dated 11/20/2009 12:35:20 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
tony@hdheaven.co.uk writes:

Awww.... I'm just imagining a tiny Korean chap pulling on hundreds of
little
strings to open and shut the shades...

That explains a lot. ;-)

Quinton Lee, MIS
Q.A. Lee Consulting
Helping People and Technology Work Together

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Re: [Avid-L2] Re: Mac Smoke Official

On 21/11/2009, at 12:06 PM, Philip Hodgetts wrote:

>
> On Nov 20, 2009, at 4:08 PM, IAN WILSON wrote:
>
>> Hi Oliver, my understanding of RR is just to display 2K-4K,
>> debayering
>> on the fly, it still sends RGB back to FCP for it's GUI and GPU
>> requirements. The challange is to have anything you do in FCP
>> represented in the RR stream, even a simple dissolve.
>>
>> You may be correct about history, but somebody needs to come up with
>> an NLE that will do this stuff, could it just be SMOKE?
>
> What's the projected sales of this new NLE? If it's relying on RED
> then we're looking at maybe 12K sales worldwide (more than double RED
> camera sales), which is simply not a viable number for companies to
> invest in and be able to keep the price "reasonable".
>
> For comparison, *edit was killed with about 5,000 total users.

So Philip, what's the end game here, is the RR cards doing a ProRez in
RT as good as it gets?


Ian


Colortape Productions
222a Bay Street
PORT MELBOURNE, VICTORIA 3207
AUSTRALIA
+61 3 9580 5098
m 0418 327 082
Skype idwctp

IAN WILSON


http://twitter.com/wilsonid

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[Avid-L2] Re: Mac Smoke Official

> You may be correct about history, but somebody needs to come up with
> an NLE that will do this stuff, could it just be SMOKE?
> Ian Wilson

Why? Where's the market?

- Oliver

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[Avid-L2] Re: macs on avid

> I don't remember. What's that mean for us lay-people?
> Wes Plate

Twice as many virtual cores compared with physical cores. Quad-cores would have 8 virtual cores and octo-cores would have 16 virtual cores. Not as much power as if it really had that many physical cores, but more power than older CPUs with the same number of cores in the past. So even though the speed is lower, you have more processing power.

- Oliver

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Re: [Avid-L2] Re: Mac Smoke Official

On Nov 20, 2009, at 4:08 PM, IAN WILSON wrote:

> Hi Oliver, my understanding of RR is just to display 2K-4K, debayering
> on the fly, it still sends RGB back to FCP for it's GUI and GPU
> requirements. The challange is to have anything you do in FCP
> represented in the RR stream, even a simple dissolve.
>
> You may be correct about history, but somebody needs to come up with
> an NLE that will do this stuff, could it just be SMOKE?

What's the projected sales of this new NLE? If it's relying on RED
then we're looking at maybe 12K sales worldwide (more than double RED
camera sales), which is simply not a viable number for companies to
invest in and be able to keep the price "reasonable".

For comparison, *edit was killed with about 5,000 total users.


Philip Hodgetts
President, Intelligent Assistance
AssistedEditing.com Fast First Cuts, Metadata Worfklows
Big Brains for Rent bigbrainsforrent.com
HD Survival Handbook 2009-2010
The New Now - Grow your business - ProAppsTips.com

Personal Blog http://philiphodgetts.com
Cell 818 335 3916

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Re: [Avid-L2] Re: Mac Smoke Official

Hi Oliver, my understanding of RR is just to display 2K-4K, debayering
on the fly, it still sends RGB back to FCP for it's GUI and GPU
requirements. The challange is to have anything you do in FCP
represented in the RR stream, even a simple dissolve.

You may be correct about history, but somebody needs to come up with
an NLE that will do this stuff, could it just be SMOKE?

Ian Wilson
Colortape Productions
Ian@colortape.tv
0418 327 082
Via iPhone

On 21/11/2009, at 10:16 AM, "oliverpetersvidy" <oliverpeters@oliverpeters.com
> wrote:

>> IAN WILSON wrote:
>> If I was AJA and BMD I would be looking for a new business model and
>> there is one staring them in the face and it's called REDRocket and
>> the RAW format that ARRI and Cannon will most likely adopt.
>
> Interesting thought, except that neither company has ever made a
> board that has any computation ability to accelerate video effects
> or conversions in any significant way. This is much more likely to
> be the realm of NVIDIA.
>
> And while you're at it, did you notice Deanan's RedUser post
> essentially saying that CPU processing gave them more flexible
> control over debaying and enhancement? Seems like the current
> software for RR is coded for optimum hardware acceleration.
>
> http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=37934&highlight=detail
>
> - Oliver


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Re: [Avid-L2] Re: macs on avid

For one thing, when you set up a QMaster cluster on an 8-core machine,
instead of a maximum of 8 instances, you could set one up with as many
as 16 instances. But don't do that many. Limit it to 12 at most, I
think. Or maybe just 8.

I'm not sure a 12 instance cluster would be speedier than an 8.


Brian


Wes Plate wrote:
> On 11/20/09 3:17 PM, "oliverpetersvidy" <oliverpeters@oliverpeters.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Remember the Nehalem chips are also multi-threaded.
>
> I don't remember. What's that mean for us lay-people?
>
>


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