Saturday, July 16, 2016

[Avid-L2] Re: Resolve 12.5

 

"I get most of my audio work done there before jumping into Avid."


So why go back to Avid at all?  If/when Resolve gets close, is there a need for Media Composer?

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Posted by: switthaus@mac.com
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[Avid-L2] Re: Resolve 12.5

 

BTW - if you are trying to fix mixed cadence (mixed shots all with 3:2 in a 59.94i timeline) in order to reconstruct a perfect 23.976p timeline, then the only flawless method I've found is Media Composer. You have to go shot-by-shot and yes it is painstaking, but it works.


Oliver



24p HD Restoration

 



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Posted by: oliverpeters@oliverpeters.com
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[Avid-L2] Re: Resolve 12.5

 

First of all, these are the units I'm referring to: Teranex 2D, Processor, 3D Processor and Teranex Express.


These are designed to handle 2:3:2:3 cadence ("3:2 pulldown"), but not 2:3:3:2 nor 2:2:2:4 cadence. They are supposed to correct and/or remove mixed cadence, however I had less that perfect results with the material I threw at it. I suspect that's because I was working with a DV-sized timeline, which had gone through a few passes and was very inconsistent. I suspect if I'd have had better D1-sized media, the results would have been better. This was media being upscaled to 1080p and the results were better than other software methods.

Wait. You are basing your opinion on what sales people told you at NAB? Come on. :) I haven't tested the current Snell products, but I don't doubt that they might do a better job. However, mixed cadence removal/restoration is never an ideal situation and not really what either of these products were primarily designed to do.

I presume this would be the Snell offering:
Alchemist XF – Highest quality file based format and framerate conversion software - Snell Advanced Media

 




- Oliver


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Posted by: oliverpeters@oliverpeters.com
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Re: [Avid-L2] AAF export fails with OSErr:-5000

 

I see the media creations setting change seemingly on their own all the time.  For a long time I think many considered it a bug of some sort, and perhaps there is some truth to that, but a while ago I realized what was happening in my case.  I mount and unmount volumes as needed several times during the day.  My approach is to only mount the minimum volumes or workspaces needed for a given project.  That just seems to lighten the computers load and helps to reduce crashes in my experience.  This may all be in my head but in my gut the less volumes to scan and keep track of feels like it improves stability and performance.  What I finally discovered is quite often I would open up an Avid project before I had mounted the volume/workspace I had been using as the render drive.  After opening the project Avid would automatically pick a new render drive in the absence of the previously assigned one.  Sometimes it would do exactly what your's did and assign the startup drive as the render drive even though I had filtered that out and also done the locked Avidmediafiles folder on it.  The result was errors like you experienced although I can't remember the exact syntax they may have been exactly what you experienced.

P.S.  For the second time in two days I received responses from Terry and another from Dave Hogan directly into my email but I don't see it on the list.  For a while the list behavior I've been seeing is that once I contribute to an existing thread on the L2 then any further response to the thread shows up on the L2 web page and I get a direct email.  I realize there are choices when replying to go to the group or individual or both.  So I'm wondering given I've received these email thread responses directly and they haven't appeared on the group page is that a bug or is it that the posters have been receiving a direct email with my initial response to the thread and just replying to that?  I'm trying to post these helpful responses back to the group to share the knowledge and I'm sure in many cases show what a bone head I can be.  I've been taught the only stupid question is the one I don't ask and I do everything in my power to follow that advice.  ;-)
 
John Moore Barking Trout Productions Studio City, CA bigfish@pacbell.net



From: Terry Barnum <terrydop@gmail.com>
To: bigfish@pacbell.net
Sent: Friday, July 15, 2016 8:56 PM
Subject: Re: [Avid-L2] AAF export fails with OSErr:-5000

The Media Creation location setting had somehow changed itself from using a fibre volume to using the second internal drive in the MacPro. In 20 years I've never had this setting change out from under me. My editor swears he didn't change anything. The second drive is a scratch disk for AE/PS and various stuff that we don't want crufting up the boot SSD. I have the boot and launch drives filtered out, but a long time ago I created a locked OMFI MediaFiles folder on the second drive to keep editors from accidentally putting media there. Totally messed with me last night!

-Terry

> On Jul 15, 2016, at 5:34 PM, bigfish@pacbell.net [Avid-L2] <Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
>
> What exactly was off in the media creations settings.  Was the destination drive being blocked or filtered out by media creations check boxes.  What settings did you change to get it to work.
>
>
> ---In Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com, <terrydop@...> wrote :
>
> That was it! Thanks Mark!
>
> > On Jul 14, 2016, at 9:00 PM, Terry Barnum terrydop@... [Avid-L2] <Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
> >
> > Thanks for the quick response Mark! I already left the office but will check first thing in the morning.
> >
> > -Terry
> >
> > > On Jul 14, 2016, at 8:39 PM, Mark Spano <cutandcover@...> wrote:
> > >
> > > What's your Media Creation settings set to for drive destination? When you make an AAF with embedded media, MC needs to first create OMFI MediaFiles in the Media Creation drive setting. Then it embeds that data into the AAF for your destination. -5000 is a permissions issue for the Media Creation drive.
> > >
> > >> On Thu, Jul 14, 2016 at 11:35 PM, Terry Barnum terrydop@... [Avid-L2] <Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> So a weird thing started happening this afternoon. When trying to export an AAF for ProTools it almost immediately fails with an OSErr:-5000. For an instant before the error it says Converting.
> > >>
> > >> I've tried unchecking anything in the export dialog to do with converting, different editor settings, trashing the MCState, Site_Settings.avs, Site_Settings.xml and Site_Attributes, but no change. The destination drive is definitely writeable—I can export a ProRes Proxy QT of the sequence there without problem. But if I try to export an AAF with embedded files of the sequence it fails.
> > >>
> > >> If the only thing I change in the export dialog is from 'embedded files' to 'output to folder,' the export works fine to the destination drive. Something about embedded is now breaking it.
> > >>
> > >> I've shutdown and restarted, run Disk Utility to repair permissions on the boot SSD, tried another project that exported an AAF earlier in the day but now fails, tried a new, simple sequence with 2 audio tracks, and tried exporting to the desktop, all without any luck.
> > >>
> > >> I've never seen this before. Any ideas on how to fix?
> > >>
> > >> MC8.4.4, MacOS 10.9.5, IO Express, FibreJet
> > >>
> > >> Of course we're under deadline so thanks for any suggestions!
> > >>
> > >> -Terry
> > >>
> > >> Terry Barnum
> > >> digital OutPost
> > >> Carlsbad, CA
> > >>
> > >> http://www.dop.com
> > >> 800/464-6434
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> > Terry Barnum
> > digital OutPost
> > Carlsbad, CA
> >
> > http://www.dop.com
> > 800/464-6434
> >
> >
> >
>
> Terry Barnum
> digital OutPost
> Carlsbad, CA
>
> http://www.dop.com
> 800/464-6434

Terry Barnum
digital OutPost
Carlsbad, CA

http://www.dop.com
800/464-6434


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Posted by: John Moore <bigfish@pacbell.net>
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[Avid-L2] Re: Resolve 12.5

 

Thanks for the clarification.  This explains my confusion/misunderstanding.  I think my discussions were centered around the Teranex Mini units as that's what many bought soon after BM acquired Teranex and they have been a subject on many L2 threads.  With all the talk about about certain limitations and or shortcomings with the mini units I hadn't realized there was still a higher end product available.  It didn't help that when I was talking to folks at Snell and Wilcox IIRC at a previous NAB a few years back discussing real time random cadence removal, which I'd been told couldn't be done with the BM Teranex units Snell and Wilcox people didn't point out I might be talking about the mini units and that there was higher end models still available.

So does anybody have experience with these more robust BM higher end Teranex units?  Can they do real time cadence removal and are they more hardware based like the units of old or are they more software based  units.  My understanding of the BM Teranex line was it was a lot cheaper due in large part to the products no longer being based on big iron hardware.



---In Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com, <oliverpeters@...> wrote :

I think it's important to think about which Teranex boxes we are talking about. BMD offers both the small mini-converters and the larger rack-mount models. The mini-converters have no relationship to what was marketed as the Teranex Mini before BMD. These small units are designed to fix single problems and may use some of the Teranex algorithms. Basically they carry the Teranex name. When you want to compare old versus new, compare the rack-mount models.

These units are designed for audio/video/TC in and out and handle a variety of functions. The largest model - the 3D processor - can also be used as a Thunderbolt i/o device. The three units don't all have exactly the same functions and of the functions they offer, these may or may not be identical to the previous Teranex models.

I have used both versions, before and after BMD; however, not side-by-side. To the best of my recollection what I'm seeing in the BMD version is the same as the older units, given the same features. For example, DV to HD with de-interlacing and mild NR, which will never look great, seems to look about as well on the BMD model as the older systems.

Remember that not all of the Teranex products were not reintroduced as BMD versions. Teranex used to offer an image restoration unit, which I used to remove dirt and hair from film transfers. That's no longer offered by BMD.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters - editor | colorist

I'm curious about Teranex in particular.  I don't run those boxes but in what I've heard from users of the current products and those of the pre Black Magic products it seemed like the cheaper Teranexs offered by Black Magic didn't perform as well as the older hardware units.  I'm not versed in their operation but it sure felt like yes they dropped the price but the features and quality dropped too for the users use to the older teranex product.  This is the impression I got in random conversations but do the Black Magic Teranex boxes off all the features of their predecessors.  Again I'm not a user of the products so I may be completely off the mark with what I have inferred over the past few years.  Please edjamacate me on this.

__._,_.___

Posted by: bigfish@pacbell.net
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[Avid-L2] Re: Resolve 12.5

 

I think it's important to think about which Teranex boxes we are talking about. BMD offers both the small mini-converters and the larger rack-mount models. The mini-converters have no relationship to what was marketed as the Teranex Mini before BMD. These small units are designed to fix single problems and may use some of the Teranex algorithms. Basically they carry the Teranex name. When you want to compare old versus new, compare the rack-mount models.


These units are designed for audio/video/TC in and out and handle a variety of functions. The largest model - the 3D processor - can also be used as a Thunderbolt i/o device. The three units don't all have exactly the same functions and of the functions they offer, these may or may not be identical to the previous Teranex models.

I have used both versions, before and after BMD; however, not side-by-side. To the best of my recollection what I'm seeing in the BMD version is the same as the older units, given the same features. For example, DV to HD with de-interlacing and mild NR, which will never look great, seems to look about as well on the BMD model as the older systems.

Remember that not all of the Teranex products were not reintroduced as BMD versions. Teranex used to offer an image restoration unit, which I used to remove dirt and hair from film transfers. That's no longer offered by BMD.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters - editor | colorist

I'm curious about Teranex in particular.  I don't run those boxes but in what I've heard from users of the current products and those of the pre Black Magic products it seemed like the cheaper Teranexs offered by Black Magic didn't perform as well as the older hardware units.  I'm not versed in their operation but it sure felt like yes they dropped the price but the features and quality dropped too for the users use to the older teranex product.  This is the impression I got in random conversations but do the Black Magic Teranex boxes off all the features of their predecessors.  Again I'm not a user of the products so I may be completely off the mark with what I have inferred over the past few years.  Please edjamacate me on this.

__._,_.___

Posted by: Oliver Peters <oliverpeters@oliverpeters.com>
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Friday, July 15, 2016

Re: [Avid-L2] Re: Resolve 12.5

 

I have to disagree that you need something more than basic media composer color correction for broadcast television.  Think of all the years we had just 4 TBC knobs and that went straight to the big 3 networks.  I personally wouldn't want to color correct in a basic media composer because I have become accustomed to the relational symphony style color correction the boost speed.  The extra features help too but in a pinch a Media Composer can do a reasonable job on a basic color grade.

Sure there a plenty of more powerful color correction applications that have their place when more color refinement is needed but in the documentary reality world I have no problem satisfying clients with a decent color grade.  The added benefit of seeing everything in context is also an important reason for my series work.  Perhaps in the Promo arena there is more budget and scrutiny so having a more advanced color system helps.  I worked at one place that used Resolve while they did Avid offline for EPK and trailer work.  After I showed them how much more efficient staying in Avid symphony for the finishing was they quickly switched from doing everything color wise in Resolve to doing most everything in symphony and bringing in Resolve when they felt something needed that added touch on certain shots or footage.  

Baselight is a great addition to work side by side with symphony color correction to avoid the round trip gotchas.



---In Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com, <mactvman@...> wrote :

To answer your question is simple, based on your target audience.

If you are finishing for web, probably you don't need more than the Avid color corrector.

If you are finishing for Broadcast Televison, Blu-ray or Feature Film release, you need a bigger toolbox than a stock Media Composer provides. Not just in tool sets including power windows, noise reduction, grain adjustments and the like, but in the bit depth and how color is processed. Avid does not do well in that arena.  Footage gets posterized and noisy when you have to push colors too far.

The facility I work at primarily uses dedicated color systems (Nucoda).  However in our promo work for film and television we use the color correction available in Flame, and Baselight inside AVID to get this done.

The only reason we aren't using resolve yet, is we don't have blackmagic hardware.  We primarily use Nitris DX and AJA i/o hardware.

You can bet, however, that the moment we go to Blackmagic hardware, we will be using resolve for our promo work, it's free!

Dave Hogan
Burbank, CA


On Friday, July 15, 2016 2:05 PM, "switthaus@... [Avid-L2]" <Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


 
I guess my question is, how many of us (editors) really needs a color corrector of Resolves strength?  If not, why settle (at this point) for an NLE that is lagging behind all the others?


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Posted by: bigfish@pacbell.net
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Re: [Avid-L2] AAF export fails with OSErr:-5000

 

What exactly was off in the media creations settings.  Was the destination drive being blocked or filtered out by media creations check boxes.  What settings did you change to get it to work.



---In Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com, <terrydop@...> wrote :

That was it! Thanks Mark!

> On Jul 14, 2016, at 9:00 PM, Terry Barnum terrydop@... [Avid-L2] <Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
>
> Thanks for the quick response Mark! I already left the office but will check first thing in the morning.
>
> -Terry
>
> > On Jul 14, 2016, at 8:39 PM, Mark Spano <cutandcover@...> wrote:
> >
> > What's your Media Creation settings set to for drive destination? When you make an AAF with embedded media, MC needs to first create OMFI MediaFiles in the Media Creation drive setting. Then it embeds that data into the AAF for your destination. -5000 is a permissions issue for the Media Creation drive.
> >
> >> On Thu, Jul 14, 2016 at 11:35 PM, Terry Barnum terrydop@... [Avid-L2] <Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> So a weird thing started happening this afternoon. When trying to export an AAF for ProTools it almost immediately fails with an OSErr:-5000. For an instant before the error it says Converting.
> >>
> >> I've tried unchecking anything in the export dialog to do with converting, different editor settings, trashing the MCState, Site_Settings.avs, Site_Settings.xml and Site_Attributes, but no change. The destination drive is definitely writeable—I can export a ProRes Proxy QT of the sequence there without problem. But if I try to export an AAF with embedded files of the sequence it fails.
> >>
> >> If the only thing I change in the export dialog is from 'embedded files' to 'output to folder,' the export works fine to the destination drive. Something about embedded is now breaking it.
> >>
> >> I've shutdown and restarted, run Disk Utility to repair permissions on the boot SSD, tried another project that exported an AAF earlier in the day but now fails, tried a new, simple sequence with 2 audio tracks, and tried exporting to the desktop, all without any luck.
> >>
> >> I've never seen this before. Any ideas on how to fix?
> >>
> >> MC8.4.4, MacOS 10.9.5, IO Express, FibreJet
> >>
> >> Of course we're under deadline so thanks for any suggestions!
> >>
> >> -Terry
> >>
> >> Terry Barnum
> >> digital OutPost
> >> Carlsbad, CA
> >>
> >> http://www.dop.com
> >> 800/464-6434
> >
> >
> >
>
> Terry Barnum
> digital OutPost
> Carlsbad, CA
>
> http://www.dop.com
> 800/464-6434
>
>
>

Terry Barnum
digital OutPost
Carlsbad, CA

http://www.dop.com
800/464-6434

__._,_.___

Posted by: bigfish@pacbell.net
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