Saturday, March 11, 2017

[Avid-L2] File - FAQ AVID-L2.txt

 


Welcome to the Avid-L2
FAQ!
AVID-L II Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ)

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Background

Avid-L was established in 1994 at Calvin College by Steven Koster.
It was created to be a forum for Avid users to meet, discuss, and share
information.

Avid-L quickly grew into the premiere on-line users group for
professional film and video editors. It was one of the earliest examples

of an Internet community, allowing hundreds of editors worldwide to
share their experiences and expertise with their peers. There was no
better place for a professional Avid editor to get such wealth of
informed professional advice.

At various times, individual subscribers volunteered services to the
group. Searchable archives were maintained by Germany's Berlin Users
Group as well as the UIUC. A tips & tricks list was posted by Andy
Birkhead of Innovative Edit. Wes Plate, a longtime contributor, not only

shared key techniques on his Web site, he also created a photo gallery
for members' portraits.

In 1997, several subscribers began a tradition of meeting in person at
the NAB trade show in Las Vegas. The first gatherings were organized by Jaime Fowler. In 1999,
Avid Technology itself began sponsoring these gatherings as an exclusive reception and seminar for Avid-L members only. In 2002, this changed to the "Avid Users Group" meeting.

By 1999, Avid-L boasted over 1600 subscribers, exhibiting a true
international scope with over 300 international members. The community
included participants from a wide variety of well-known corporate
organizations in broadcasting, technical, and content creation fields,
as well as and multiple local TV stations, colleges, and universities.

In 2000, Avid-L joined AvidProNet.com, and then, in 2002, was integrated
Into Avid.com.

In 2005 Due to problems with signal to noise ratio and abusive posters, the Avid-L2 was formed. A year later the Avid-L was discontinued by Avid.

At the middle of 2006, the L2 has around 1100 members, with plenty of "lurker only" members who simply use the web version of the list. The L2 is spam-free, by moderation and with Yahoo's tools and will remain that way. The integrated archives with both old L and L2 posts came on line recently as well at the University of Illinois. That can be found at http://archives.itg.uiuc.edu/avid/.

Cross-posting to the FCP-L is welcome, tho reply's will not flow back to either list necessarily- check your own email reply preferences. The Final Cut list is found at: http://movies.groups.yahoo.com/group/FinalCutPro-L

Welcome, and Enjoy!

Extras!
With a Yahoo account tied to your subscription to the Avid-L2, you can use the web features of the Group.

Calendar Various Avid events are in the Calender. If you have an event you'd like posted, pull down and fill out the Calendar event request and send it to any Moderator

Database - The database area contains Avid Feature requests, Help Wanted, Freelance Listings and For Sale sections. Feel free to add your listings to any of these areas. Job Postings will remain up for 1 month. Please date all postings to the database areas, being pertinent is a good way to be.

Files- The files section contains various sundry files, including the latest Avid release notes. Check back often for changes.

Photos - Pictures of your Avid setup are welcome, or pictures relating to a post you need a photo to explain. Photos will be posted after moderator approval. Who knows, your picture might grace the front page for a while.

Links- Various helpful links, including direct links to Avid CPR releases can be found here, also the link to the archives.

JDS

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Re: [Avid-L2] Conforming back to camera original files

 

So say I take footage from an Arri Alexa, Panasonic Varicam 35 and or Sony F55 or any of the Sony Family and I ama link in Avid and transcode to DNxHRHQX.  I know I can send an aaf to Resolve and it will work without need to assist using reel numbers.  I know it works in the times I've done this but it is still a bit of magic to me as I haven't spent the years I have in Avid which is magic of it's own but it's the Devil I know.  With the Avid AMA transcoded media to DNxHRHQX is the UMID maintained in the meta data in Avid and will the AAF sent to Resolve from Avid have that UMID available so that when I import the camera raw into my Resolve project and click use camera originals then Resolve will base it's relink on the UMID to get to the camera originals?

I realize if I've transcoded to DNxHRHQX that could certainly used for grading and would be my typical path but for the purist the camera originals are what they seek.  Also relinking to the camera originals would allow a simple link between the clips from a single camera file that would automatically apply a color grade to all shots from that camera file/clip.  In my recent Resolve class I confirmed with the instructor that if I send my Avid AAF with transcoded clips with handles I would lose the color grade link unless I manually group all the clips from a particular camera file together.

I know Scott F has posted several tutorials about round tripping and now that I have a better basic understanding of Resolve I'm trying to wrap my head around how not assiting with reel numbers works under the hood.  It seems most of the things I had read in the past were tied to using assist using reel numbers.



---In Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com, <bouke@...> wrote :

My bad, typo, it should say UMID
Unique Media IdeNtifier.
A number that is unique for each file, and is preserved in the proxies.
This beats Reel / TC, as that could be double in theory.
UMID sorta kinda works by creating a number composed of  location, time and a large random number.
Chances that two cams (or other devices are at the same location and start at the same time and create the same random number are very close to zero.

So, Resolve scans all media and keeps track of the numbers. Makes perfect sense and works swell.
Bouke

Edit 'B / VideoToolShed.com
van Oldenbarneveltstraat 33
6512 AS  Nijmegen
+31 6 21817248

On 10 Mar 2017, at 19:09, bigfish@... [Avid-L2] <Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Can you elaborate a bit on the UUID linking? 

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Posted by: bigfish@pacbell.net
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[Avid-L2] Hijacked thread, now, audio timecode / time stamp rant

 

On 10 Mar 2017, at 22:56, John Heiser jpheiser@gmail.com [Avid-L2] <Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

some audio guy with good ears but so-so system skills can record good sound with crappy or mismatched or different frame rate or no time code.


For all:
BWF (Wave) files DO NOT have TIMECODE, but a TIME STAMP.
Audio DOES NOT have a 'framerate' identical to video / film.

To clarify:
Audio has a sample rate. In our world, most of the time 48000.
So, if audio has a framerate, it would be 48000, NOT 23.976 / 24 / 25 nor 29.97!
And that makes sense. Like film (or progressive video) is shot at X frames per second, audio is recorded at X samples per second.

Now, the 'timecode' for audio is based on an 'audio frame', and it's not written as hours/minutes/seconds/samples (audio frames), but as a simple counter.
Now since there are 48000 'audio frames' per second, the 'audio TC' in a BWF file that corresponds TC 00:00:02:00 is written as 96000
(Sample 96000 for 2 seconds.)

Again, this is exactly the same as a frame number in video, except the audio frame rate is kinda high.

No matter how an audio recorder is set-up, this number will always be as described.

BUT:
A decent audio recorder has LTC in / out, and that can be configured to output at a film or video framerate.
And, that setting will also be included in the BWF metadata.

Now, to get from the BWF timestamp to TC (that is way easier for humans to read / understand) is simple math.
And there problems might occur if you don't understand the math.
NTSC (29.97) and 23.976 are bastard formats. The frame counter in TC counts up to 30 / 24, while the speed is not 30 or 24, but 0.1% less.
That means that the BWF timestamp converted to TC gives a different number depending on what you tell the application to interpret the files.

But, no matter what it displays, with a bit of math you should ALWAYS be able to do some math and get problems fixed.

This is not always simple (Unless your name is Bouke and you love math like this.)

Since this is an Avid list:
On importing BWF files, Avid often asks you how to interpret the files. But not always. A BWF file 'might' have a flag inside telling MC NOT to ask this question, but to interpret the timestamp in a  pre-defined  way, that might be wrong. 

Luckily there are a lot of tools out there that can alter this kind of metadata. 
WaveAgent (Free from Sound Devices) is a must have for any editor who works with BWF files.

Bouke

Edit 'B / VideoToolShed.com
van Oldenbarneveltstraat 33
6512 AS  Nijmegen
+31 6 21817248

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Posted by: Bouke <bouke@editb.nl>
Reply via web post Reply to sender Reply to group Start a New Topic Messages in this topic (13)

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this is the Avid-L2

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Re: [Avid-L2] Conforming back to camera original files

 

My bad, typo, it should say UMID

Unique Media IdeNtifier.
A number that is unique for each file, and is preserved in the proxies.
This beats Reel / TC, as that could be double in theory.
UMID sorta kinda works by creating a number composed of  location, time and a large random number.
Chances that two cams (or other devices are at the same location and start at the same time and create the same random number are very close to zero.

So, Resolve scans all media and keeps track of the numbers. Makes perfect sense and works swell.
Bouke

Edit 'B / VideoToolShed.com
van Oldenbarneveltstraat 33
6512 AS  Nijmegen
+31 6 21817248

On 10 Mar 2017, at 19:09, bigfish@pacbell.net [Avid-L2] <Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Can you elaborate a bit on the UUID linking? 

__._,_.___

Posted by: Bouke <bouke@editb.nl>
Reply via web post Reply to sender Reply to group Start a New Topic Messages in this topic (5)

Have you tried the highest rated email app?
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this is the Avid-L2

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[Avid-L2] Re: Conforming back to camera original files

 

I'd agree with Bourke. Use resolve.
You have used Resolve already and now on Avid. To Add Premiere into the mix is asking for trouble.
If VFX elememts need After effects then conform those elements in premiere or conform in resolve and send those to premiere. The elements sent for VFX will need to be graded first anyway won't they?


Pat from his mobile.

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Posted by: <pat@horridge.org.uk>
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Friday, March 10, 2017

Re: [Avid-L2] Semi-OT: Double-system or Sound on Camera?

 


On Fri, Mar 10, 2017 at 3:35 PM, bigfish@pacbell.net [Avid-L2] <Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
Time Code

The day I get matching time code on all cameras AND second system sound is a real rarity. All the systems in the world work great when they're used, but (to get back to a point someone else made) some audio guy with good ears but so-so system skills can record good sound with crappy or mismatched or different frame rate or no time code. This happens a lot to me with photographers who've decided to become videographers and have little experience with time code. (they'll even mismatch frame rates on multiple-camera event shoots) At that point, I'm sync-ing in Premiere or PluralEyes using audio as the sync source and crossing my fingers.


----

john heiser | senior video editor


p: 205.949.9513

o: 205.949.9494

o2ideas.com

 

505 20th Street North, Suite 1500

birmingham, alabama 35203

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Posted by: John Heiser <jpheiser@gmail.com>
Reply via web post Reply to sender Reply to group Start a New Topic Messages in this topic (12)

Have you tried the highest rated email app?
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this is the Avid-L2

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Re: [Avid-L2] Semi-OT: Double-system or Sound on Camera?

 

Do you use any of the fancy Sync + Time Code systems that carry both sync and time code over RF to cameras etc...?  Are there systems like that that would also carry audio along with sync and time code.  I have seen sync and time code units at NAB a few years back but haven't kept up on the latest gear out there. 

Nobody bothers to gen lock the cameras on my 4K shoots as far as I know but the audio stems are recorded on a DAW which is the audio bed of the multigroups created so that must avoid phase issues.



---In Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com, <wilsonchao@...> wrote :

Yes, I mean that if you're recording multiple audio tracks across multiple video recorders you must genlock the cameras if you want your audio tracks to be in phase.  If you're on a budget so you're shooting w. cameras that aren't genlockable then you should put all the audio on a single recorder so the multiple audio tracks are all in phase even though the multiple video tracks are not.  [This will likely require an audio embedder.]

On Fri, Mar 10, 2017 at 1:54 PM, bigfish@... [Avid-L2] <Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 

When you say "phase-locked w. timecode" does that mean you feed tri-level or bi-level sync to cameras and  feed everything from a master timecode generator locked to the same sync source?

In my limited experience time code alone doesn't gen lock camera sources.  I've seen some RF systems that carry sync and time code information to cameras and I would assume any other equipment like the pro tools rig and the cinedeck etc....



---In Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com, <wilsonchao@...> wrote :

For documentary shoots I always make 2 redundant recordings, in-camera & external recorder  The mixer feeds audio to both, and timecode is embedded in the HDSDI feed to the recorder.  So - not "double system" but "double single-system" if you will, and no syncing.  As far as audio quality goes, we're avoiding the camera's preamps which are the weakest link in the chain, so even in the (very very rare) case where our primary (external) recording is bad & we have to fall back on the backup (internal) recording, it's perfectly usable.

[Slightly off-topic]  For live-performance event shoots I record maybe 2 dozen Iso'd audio tracks on a dedicated ProTools system, purely as backup.  Primary audio is distributed across multiple video channels, e.g. a pair of CineDeck 4-channel video recorders gives 8 video channels w. 4 audio tracks each = 32 tracks, of course phase-locked w. timecode.  Never had to use the ProTools backups yet, but some day it'll save my butt...






On Thu, Mar 9, 2017 at 2:15 PM, Jim Feeley jfeeley@... [Avid-L2] <Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 

Hey Everyone,

I'd love to hear your perspective as editors/post on this.

I do a fair amount of work as a location sound mixer. I'm thinking of buying a new hop to send audio from my bag to camera. But the thing is, I'm doing fewer jobs where we send high-quality audio to the camera. A lot more scratch track and/or timecode (or timecode & sync). I don't do much narrative and advertising work where I expect double-system. More news mag, documentary, and mid/high-level corporate (and I don't do much reality/unscripted, either). I wonder if my experience is anomalous, or if it matches what you all see. And what do you prefer?

Are you seeing more of some sort of double-system audio in the doc/public-affairs/corporate work you do?

How do you prefer to get and match audio? Sound on Tape (card/camera/whatever)? Scratch track on camera & separate audio files? TC or TC+Sync & separate audio files? Scratch & TC on camera & separate audio? Other?

Let's assume (since I own) Sound Devices audio recorders. I.e, top quality...not little Zooms or something.

And what do you expect sound on camera to increase or decrease in the coming years?

Thanks!

jim feeley
pov media
word image sound



__._,_.___

Posted by: bigfish@pacbell.net
Reply via web post Reply to sender Reply to group Start a New Topic Messages in this topic (11)

Have you tried the highest rated email app?
With 4.5 stars in iTunes, the Yahoo Mail app is the highest rated email app on the market. What are you waiting for? Now you can access all your inboxes (Gmail, Outlook, AOL and more) in one place. Never delete an email again with 1000GB of free cloud storage.

this is the Avid-L2

.

__,_._,___

Re: [Avid-L2] Semi-OT: Double-system or Sound on Camera?

 

Yes, I mean that if you're recording multiple audio tracks across multiple video recorders you must genlock the cameras if you want your audio tracks to be in phase.  If you're on a budget so you're shooting w. cameras that aren't genlockable then you should put all the audio on a single recorder so the multiple audio tracks are all in phase even though the multiple video tracks are not.  [This will likely require an audio embedder.]

On Fri, Mar 10, 2017 at 1:54 PM, bigfish@pacbell.net [Avid-L2] <Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 

When you say "phase-locked w. timecode" does that mean you feed tri-level or bi-level sync to cameras and  feed everything from a master timecode generator locked to the same sync source?

In my limited experience time code alone doesn't gen lock camera sources.  I've seen some RF systems that carry sync and time code information to cameras and I would assume any other equipment like the pro tools rig and the cinedeck etc....



---In Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com, <wilsonchao@...> wrote :

For documentary shoots I always make 2 redundant recordings, in-camera & external recorder  The mixer feeds audio to both, and timecode is embedded in the HDSDI feed to the recorder.  So - not "double system" but "double single-system" if you will, and no syncing.  As far as audio quality goes, we're avoiding the camera's preamps which are the weakest link in the chain, so even in the (very very rare) case where our primary (external) recording is bad & we have to fall back on the backup (internal) recording, it's perfectly usable.

[Slightly off-topic]  For live-performance event shoots I record maybe 2 dozen Iso'd audio tracks on a dedicated ProTools system, purely as backup.  Primary audio is distributed across multiple video channels, e.g. a pair of CineDeck 4-channel video recorders gives 8 video channels w. 4 audio tracks each = 32 tracks, of course phase-locked w. timecode.  Never had to use the ProTools backups yet, but some day it'll save my butt...






On Thu, Mar 9, 2017 at 2:15 PM, Jim Feeley jfeeley@... [Avid-L2] <Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 

Hey Everyone,

I'd love to hear your perspective as editors/post on this.

I do a fair amount of work as a location sound mixer. I'm thinking of buying a new hop to send audio from my bag to camera. But the thing is, I'm doing fewer jobs where we send high-quality audio to the camera. A lot more scratch track and/or timecode (or timecode & sync). I don't do much narrative and advertising work where I expect double-system. More news mag, documentary, and mid/high-level corporate (and I don't do much reality/unscripted, either). I wonder if my experience is anomalous, or if it matches what you all see. And what do you prefer?

Are you seeing more of some sort of double-system audio in the doc/public-affairs/corporate work you do?

How do you prefer to get and match audio? Sound on Tape (card/camera/whatever)? Scratch track on camera & separate audio files? TC or TC+Sync & separate audio files? Scratch & TC on camera & separate audio? Other?

Let's assume (since I own) Sound Devices audio recorders. I.e, top quality...not little Zooms or something.

And what do you expect sound on camera to increase or decrease in the coming years?

Thanks!

jim feeley
pov media
word image sound



__._,_.___

Posted by: Wilson Chao <wilsonchao@gmail.com>
Reply via web post Reply to sender Reply to group Start a New Topic Messages in this topic (10)

Have you tried the highest rated email app?
With 4.5 stars in iTunes, the Yahoo Mail app is the highest rated email app on the market. What are you waiting for? Now you can access all your inboxes (Gmail, Outlook, AOL and more) in one place. Never delete an email again with 1000GB of free cloud storage.

this is the Avid-L2

.

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Re: [Avid-L2] Conforming back to camera original files

 

Can you elaborate a bit on the UUID linking?  In my very basic transcoding use of Resolve I found that assist using reel numbers based on the file name was the easiest way to pre bake in standard LUTs to then use in Avid for online.

I know there is a setting in Resolve to use camera originals.  I was told by a more experienced Resolve user that given he had already imported the camera originals into the Resolve Media Pool with the "use camera originals" setting checked I could export an AAF from avid linked to existing media and Resolve would know to use the camera originals.  I believe the Resolve could still see the actual Avid media but it had never been imported into the Resolve project.  It all worked but I never got to analyze the system closely.

Is Resolve's ability to link based on UUID adversely effected if the media used in Avid was created using Resolve and Assist using reel names was used in the media preparation? When I have done this my Avid media ends up with the conventional tape name and it has all worked but I was never trying to go back to camera originals.  Given the camera originals don't necessarily have the same tape name, if any, is this UUID always coming along in the background metadata?



---In Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com, <bouke@...> wrote :

Why not conform in Resolve?
Resolve will link to the UUID's.
Just make sure Resolve can only see the originals, import an AAF and the sequence will relink like magic.
From there, go any route you prefer.

Bouke

Edit 'B / VideoToolShed.com
van Oldenbarneveltstraat 33
6512 AS  Nijmegen
+31 6 21817248

On 10 Mar 2017, at 11:17, ph@... [Avid-L2] <Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


I'm working on a low budget fiction film. The film was shot 2:39:1 using Arri Pro Res4444 XQ (at 3.2k Arri Log C) and occasional insert / fx shots using UHD 4K Pro Res HQ (on a GH4 V-Log). Everything was down-converted to 1080@24p DNxHD36 for editing, using Resolve. Editing was (is) done on Media Composer 8.5.3.


Editing is soon to be over, but the VFX guy who was going to also take care of conforming back to the original footage had to cancel. The new guy we got is less familiar with the conform side of things (but he's better at VFX, just can't have it all!), so I'm taking over that job. Originally, the VFX guy was going to use Premiere to conform. In his view, it made more sense since there'll be quite a bit of back and forth with After Effects. Also, Premiere takes a lot of format and keeps them in their original format. And from what he said, it's happy with taking AAF, XMF and lots more.


I haven't done a conform in a while, and never with those formats, so I would love some feedback as yesterday's methods might have been replaced with better ones. The lab doing the color-grading wants us to provide them with DPX files. The film will be graded for 2K, with the possibility of going to 4K later, once sold. As said above, it was shot at 3.2K.


Would it make sense to use Avid? I've read a lot of stuff here with gamma issues and weird exports problems, so I don't want to run into trouble for sticking to a software I know - though I don't know how you conform at 3.2K? Or should we go indeed for Premiere? I'm not super familiar with it, only used it a few times, but I'm relatively technical when necessary. I guess the other option would be to use Resolve, but would it help or not? I know Resolve even less than Premiere...


Thanks for some feedback/shared experience about the quirks and icebergs awaiting for us.

Pierre



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Posted by: bigfish@pacbell.net
Reply via web post Reply to sender Reply to group Start a New Topic Messages in this topic (3)

Have you tried the highest rated email app?
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this is the Avid-L2

.

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