Saturday, June 25, 2011

Re: [Avid-L2] For those that doubted that FCP X is just iMovie...

I'm not sure the underlying framework is the big issue. It's more about the
ideology and paradigms, and FCP X clearly inherits more of that from iMovie
than from FCP.

All this controversy is a shame, because it sounds like FCP X has some
really good stuff in it. If it had been launched as an iMovie we'd all be
very impressed. And then, ideally if they had taken the best ideas from that
and merged them with some of the foundations of FCP to make the new Final
Cut that would have been best for Apple in all worlds.

Nothing about the FCP X launch, despite what they've said (only indirectly
through unoffical intermediaries), suggests to me that Apple really is
committed to the broadcast and film market that is feeling so foresaken at
the moment. It's $300, has nothing in common with it's namesake, is designed
to appeal to inexperienced users and despite years in developments shipped
with almost exactly zero of the features that are needed in those markets.

It really does seem like Apple sees FCP X as a mass market product and has
little concern for that professional userbase. And why would they, it's
probably barely 1% of the potential market fo a product like FCP X and is
the most demanding in terms of complex features. It's just a shame they
won't say as much.

/rant

Dylan Reeve
http://dylanreeve.com/


On Sun, Jun 26, 2011 at 6:31 PM, Philip Hodgetts <
philip@intelligentassistance.com> wrote:

> **
>
>
>
> On Jun 25, 2011, at 11:25 PM, Dylan Reeve wrote:
>
> > Yes but the same is true of FCP. FCP X is as much (or more) a descendant
> of
> > iMovie as it is of FCP.
>
> Well if you want to be precise, iMovie on iPhone and iPad would be the more
> logical parent. At least they ran on AV foundation.
>
>
> Philip Hodgetts
> President, Intelligent Assistance
> Conquering the metadata foundations of Final Cut Pro X
> http://bit.ly/mBDqIY
>
> Personal Blog http://philiphodgetts.com
> Cell 818 335 3916
>
>
>


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Re: [Avid-L2] For those that doubted that FCP X is just iMovie...

 


On Jun 25, 2011, at 11:25 PM, Dylan Reeve wrote:

> Yes but the same is true of FCP. FCP X is as much (or more) a descendant of
> iMovie as it is of FCP.

Well if you want to be precise, iMovie on iPhone and iPad would be the more logical parent. At least they ran on AV foundation.

Philip Hodgetts
President, Intelligent Assistance
Conquering the metadata foundations of Final Cut Pro X http://bit.ly/mBDqIY

Personal Blog http://philiphodgetts.com
Cell 818 335 3916

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Re: [Avid-L2] For those that doubted that FCP X is just iMovie...

Yes but the same is true of FCP. FCP X is as much (or more) a descendant of
iMovie as it is of FCP.

So while FCP X shares no code with either of them, it also shares almost no
operational conventions with Final Cut Pro, but it does share a lot of ideas
with iMovie. I really am starting to think, from a software evolution point
of view, that FCP X really is iMovie 10...

Dylan Reeve
http://dylanreeve.com/


On Sun, Jun 26, 2011 at 2:25 PM, Philip Hodgetts <
philip@intelligentassistance.com> wrote:

> **
>
>
>
> On Jun 25, 2011, at 5:44 PM, Steve Hullfish wrote:
>
> >
> http://provideocoalition.com/index.php/shullfish/story/proof_that_fcp_x_is_really_just_imovie_-_directly_from_apple/
>
> Yep, built on that same foundation and code. Oh, wait no. iMovie is built
> on QT, while FCP X is AV Foundation. So no common code then. Ok.
>
> Nothing of iMovie that we have now (and many see elements of in FCP X)
> existed in 2001. That was another code base for iMovie all together.
>
> Philip
>
> Philip Hodgetts
> President, Intelligent Assistance
> Conquering the metadata foundations of Final Cut Pro X
> http://bit.ly/mBDqIY
>
> Personal Blog http://philiphodgetts.com
> Cell 818 335 3916
>
>
>


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[Avid-L2] Avid Mentors

 

So already I've heard from a couple of experienced FCP editors who have
downloaded the MC Trial and are going "WTF?" - I've offered to let them come
spend a few hours with mein the suite to go over some of the basics...
There's plenty of training material and tutorials available, but sometimes
the easiest thing is just to go and sit with someone who knows what they are
doing for a while.

I was then wondering if it's perhaps it would be a good idea to try and
scale this idea - get together a list of people who'd be happy to spend a
few hours helping a disaffected FCP editor understand how to properly
evaluate Media Composer...

Thoughts?

Dylan Reeve
http://dylanreeve.com/

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Re: [Avid-L2] Why fcpx is bad for avid

 


I didn't get that comment either. There's no FCP finishing in my market, unless the alternative is not finishing at all.

Shirley

-----Original Message-----
From: Steve Hullfish <steve4lists@veralith.com>
To: Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sat, Jun 25, 2011 4:49 pm
Subject: Re: [Avid-L2] Why fcpx is bad for avid

FCP SUCKS to finish on. Practically every professional I know, who's willing to
CUT on FCP, moves to some other finishing solution, whether it's Symphony or
Quantel or Smoke - especially SMOKE.

I can see the value in sliding stuff around in FCP's timeline if you want to do
an off-line and you love timeline editing, but finishing? That has to be a joke.

Steve Hullfish
contributor: www.provideocoalition.com
author: "The Art and Technique of Digital Color Correction"

> "Fcp is by far the most flexible and fast system compared to MC to complete
> finishing tasks."

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[Avid-L2] Adobe, "The Other White Meat"?

 

So with all the talk about FCPX not a fit for broadcast pros right now both Avid and Adobe seem to be the front runners to replace FCP for those that need to expand etc....  I've never heard glowing remarks about Premier Pro when it comes to long form or collaborative workflows with lots of editors working on the same project.  I've heard that Adobe's interaction between the suite is impressive and the meta data holds a lot of promise.  The weak link is Premier Pro from all I've heard.  It's the conduit through which a lot of projects get passed around the suite but when it comes to down right editing long form documentary etc.... projects I've heard it becomes unstable and I don't know if there is any real project sharing over a san network available.  This makes me feel like in my world of shared storage and project sharing that Avid seems the only choice aside from the various news room systems from GVG/Edius.  Curious what others' experiences
with Premier Pro and full tilt reality with some form of project sharing if it exists.

John Moore

Barking Trout Productions

Studio City, CA

bigfish@pacbell.net

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Re: [Avid-L2] For those that doubted that FCP X is just iMovie...

 


On Jun 25, 2011, at 5:44 PM, Steve Hullfish wrote:

> http://provideocoalition.com/index.php/shullfish/story/proof_that_fcp_x_is_really_just_imovie_-_directly_from_apple/

Yep, built on that same foundation and code. Oh, wait no. iMovie is built on QT, while FCP X is AV Foundation. So no common code then. Ok.

Nothing of iMovie that we have now (and many see elements of in FCP X) existed in 2001. That was another code base for iMovie all together.

Philip

Philip Hodgetts
President, Intelligent Assistance
Conquering the metadata foundations of Final Cut Pro X http://bit.ly/mBDqIY

Personal Blog http://philiphodgetts.com
Cell 818 335 3916

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Re: [Avid-L2] For those that doubted that FCP X is just iMovie...

 



On Jun 25, 2011, at 5:44 PM, Steve Hullfish wrote:

> http://provideocoalition.com/index.php/shullfish/story/proof_that_fcp_x_is_really_just_imovie_-_directly_from_apple/
>

Ouch. ;)

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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[Avid-L2] Re: Mac Update Install Notes

 

For macs it's always a complete install whether it's a patch release or no so they have always included the companion apps on the mac side in my experience. Are you talking about the PC patches, which are added on top of the main install, when you say the companion apps aren't included?

--- In Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com, Ross Flint <rossf@...> wrote:
>
> When going from 5.5.1 to 5.5.2 you do indeed need to reinstall the
> companion apps. However, that is not a patch release. The quote is
> from the readme for a patch (such as 5.5.2.1) and those releases don't
> normally include new versions of the companion apps.
>
> Ross
>
> On 24/06/2011 21:13, johnrobmoore wrote:
> >
> > You really should reinstall the companion apps. It's just a click on
> > the installer and all the extras will be installed. At least this is
> > true on Macs, pc's need the patches installed on top of the existing
> > install. I always uninstall everything then click the extras on the
> > new install and voila all is there except the ama plugins. I haven't
> > noticed but when I went from 5.5.1 to 5.5.2 I think I didn't have to
> > reinstall the ama plugins from scratch.
> >
> > --- In Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Avid-L2%40yahoogroups.com>,
> > Ross Flint <rossf@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Translation:
> > > The new installer for the Mac version will install the full updated
> > > Media Composer application (but not the companion apps). You have to
> > > uninstall the previous version of Media Composer for the new installer
> > > to work, but you should leave the companion apps in place,
> > >
> > > I hope that is clearer,
> > > Ross
> > >
> > >
> > > On 24/06/2011 08:09, Jeff Cook wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Oh god, back into Avid blurry speak. Anybody know whether I have to
> > > > uninstall the entire boxed program I just crossgraded to, in order to
> > > > upload the specific Mac update patch the install instructions say
> > > > doesn't exist? Seriously, read this mush...
> > > >
> > > > -----------
> > > > Installation Note
> > > > On a Windows® system, if you have already installed a patch on your
> > > > system, you must first uninstall the previous patch before installing
> > > > a new patch. This does not apply to the editor on Macintosh systems.
> > > > The Macintosh® version is a full installation, not just a patch. You
> > > > must completely uninstall the Macintosh version.
> > > > -----------
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Jeff Cook
> > > > jeff@ <mailto:jeff%40cookstudios.com>
> > > > 703-980-1104 (cell)
> > > >
> > > > Cook Studios, Inc
> > > > Freelance Video Editing
> > > > Washington DC & Portable
> > > > http://CookStudios.com
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > --
> > >
> > > Ross Flint
> > >
> > > Senior Non-Linear Engineer
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ONSIGHT Ltd
> > >
> > > Shepperton Studios, Middlesex, TW17 0QD
> > >
> > > M. 07779 169 788
> > >
> > > T. 020 7637 0888
> > >
> > > E. rossf@ <mailto:rossf@>
> > >
> > > http://www.onsight.co.uk <http://www.onsight.co.uk/>
> > >
> > > This e-mail and any attachments is confidential. If you have
> > received it
> > > in error, please notify me immediately. Delete it from your system, do
> > > not use or disclose the information in any way. The contents of this
> > > message may contain personal views which are not the views of On Sight
> > > Ltd, unless specifically stated. Please consider the environment before
> > > printing this e-mail.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> >
> >
>
> --
>
> Ross Flint
>
> Senior Non-Linear Engineer
>
>
>
> ONSIGHT Ltd
>
> Shepperton Studios, Middlesex, TW17 0QD
>
> M. 07779 169 788
>
> T. 020 7637 0888
>
> E. rossf@... <mailto:rossf@...>
>
> http://www.onsight.co.uk <http://www.onsight.co.uk/>
>
> This e-mail and any attachments is confidential. If you have received it
> in error, please notify me immediately. Delete it from your system, do
> not use or disclose the information in any way. The contents of this
> message may contain personal views which are not the views of On Sight
> Ltd, unless specifically stated. Please consider the environment before
> printing this e-mail.
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

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[Avid-L2] For those that doubted that FCP X is just iMovie...

 

http://provideocoalition.com/index.php/shullfish/story/proof_that_fcp_x_is_really_just_imovie_-_directly_from_apple/

Steve Hullfish
contributor: www.provideocoalition.com
author: "The Art and Technique of Digital Color Correction"

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Re: [Avid-L2] Why fcpx is bad for avid

 

FCP SUCKS to finish on. Practically every professional I know, who's willing to CUT on FCP, moves to some other finishing solution, whether it's Symphony or Quantel or Smoke - especially SMOKE.

I can see the value in sliding stuff around in FCP's timeline if you want to do an off-line and you love timeline editing, but finishing? That has to be a joke.

Steve Hullfish
contributor: www.provideocoalition.com
author: "The Art and Technique of Digital Color Correction"

> "Fcp is by far the most flexible and fast system compared to MC to complete
> finishing tasks."

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Re: [Avid-L2] Why fcpx is bad for avid

 

I think that as dysfunctional as FCP X is right now, it will still keep Avid VERY, VERY much on its toes. Also, as more people move to PremierePro and start really trying to push that app, Adobe will start becoming more "pro-friendly" which will push Avid EVEN MORE.

So I don't think Avid is going to sit back and accept all these new users and then give us all the cold shoulder because "there's no competition." I think Avid feels the heat in a very real way and will continue to be responsive if they value what little market share they have left.

Steve Hullfish
contributor: www.provideocoalition.com
On Jun 25, 2011, at 3:44 PM, Bart wrote:

>
> Avid was slowly changing to a company that is listening to it 's customers. It also changed his way of developing new tools without strange 'options' that you had to buy to make it work.
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Re: [Avid-L2] Why fcpx is bad for avid

 



"Fcp is by far the most flexible and fast system compared to MC to complete
finishing tasks."

What was your work flow for finishing on FCP? Color? If so, what was flexible or fast about it? My perception of it was that it was a great tool, but it had a crippled workflow that made it absolutely impossible for the pressured, limited budget PBS finishing I had to do.

Shirley

-----Original Message-----
From: Bart <bart@filmdoc.nl>
To: Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sat, Jun 25, 2011 1:44 pm
Subject: [Avid-L2] Why fcpx is bad for avid

First I want to say welcome to all fcp editors switching to Avid. My thoughts
are with you and please share your knowledge with us. It's very sad apple turned
there back to you professional users. It's also bad for Avid.

Avid was slowly changing to a company that is listening to it 's customers. It
also changed his way of developing new tools without strange 'options' that you
had to buy to make it work.

The most important reason they changed is because of FCP. It's very good for a
company to have something to fight against. That' s over now so I cross my
fingers they keep doing the right thing.

We have 7 suites of avid mc's and a few fcp suites we mostly use for finishing.
Fcp is by far the most flexible and fast system compared to MC to complete
finishing tasks.
Though I just can't edit a feature with it.

In my dreams I saw a fcp update like this;
-rebuild the trimming tool and some other editing tools
-rebuild the media managment
-rebuild the project /bins structure
- make it 64 bit
- add some I/o and import export options

Those improvments were very, very close and they could have killed avid and made
me switch....

But they didn't....

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__,_._,___

Re: [Avid-L2] Re: Why fcpx is bad for avid

Oh, I agree with you Bart.
The danger is that Adobe doesn't fill vacuum in the FCP market-space and Avid returns to their earlier corporate philosophy, which is referenced here:

Quote from the end of http://www.onerivermedia.com/blog/?p=294:
"I admittedly had strong animosity towards Avid back in those days. I still think they're a bit of a pompous company, if ya ask me, but at this point, I feel joining the dark side of Media Composer may end up being the best thing for us at this juncture. I know at the very least it wont hurt us in trying, and if it meets or exceeds our expectations, then all the better."

Cheers,

B

Benjamin Hershleder
http://ContactBen.com
http://Hershleder.com

Wear It In Post!
Fun T-shirts, mousepads, mugs & more
for Post Production Professionals
http://www.WearItInPost.com

On Jun 25, 2011, at 2:43 PM, Bart wrote:

>
> True about adobe benjamin,
>
> But if "we are to believe Apple, they are going to expand the functionality in
> FCPX in the future." why don't they sell fcp 6 anymore? If the pro market is serious for them they would have given the pros a way to use version 6 or a good upgrade path to the future. These pro users don't want a solution they can use in a year, they make a living out of fcp TODAY and hopefully tomorrow. I think apple really changed there minds and want to be in another segment of the business. If some third party developers find a way to optimize it they are fine with it but that's it.
> If you run a business you want to feel confident the investments you do will be in products of companies that are serious about your type of work in the long run. That's maybey the worst thing abou fcpx . You can't trust apple anymore.
> --
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > I think (IMHO) Adobe provides a good counterweight to Avid in the absence of FCP and, if we are to believe Apple, they are going to expand the functionality in FCPX in the future. Honestly, I think some of the cool things that FCPX has will only inspire Avid and Adobe to continue to innovate.
> >
> > But, hey Avid, don't go crazy with those interface changes. Simple and utilitarian is a good thing.
> >
> > And, to the good folks at Avid, I'll gripe once again:
> > Can we please have the interface customizability we had in v4 and earlier?
> > I'd like to point out that one of the gripes I've seen mentioned about FCPX is the lack of interface customizability... so you see that editors in several camps feel the same way.
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> > B
> >
> >
> > Benjamin Hershleder
> > http://ContactBen.com
> > http://Hershleder.com
> >
> > Wear It In Post!
> > Fun T-shirts, mousepads, mugs & more
> > for Post Production Professionals
> > http://www.WearItInPost.com
> >
> > On Jun 25, 2011, at 1:44 PM, Bart wrote:
> >
> > > First I want to say welcome to all fcp editors switching to Avid. My thoughts are with you and please share your knowledge with us. It's very sad apple turned there back to you professional users. It's also bad for Avid.
> > >
> > > Avid was slowly changing to a company that is listening to it 's customers. It also changed his way of developing new tools without strange 'options' that you had to buy to make it work.
> > >
> > > The most important reason they changed is because of FCP. It's very good for a company to have something to fight against. That' s over now so I cross my fingers they keep doing the right thing.
> > >
> > > We have 7 suites of avid mc's and a few fcp suites we mostly use for finishing. Fcp is by far the most flexible and fast system compared to MC to complete finishing tasks.
> > > Though I just can't edit a feature with it.
> > >
> > > In my dreams I saw a fcp update like this;
> > > -rebuild the trimming tool and some other editing tools
> > > -rebuild the media managment
> > > -rebuild the project /bins structure
> > > - make it 64 bit
> > > - add some I/o and import export options
> > >
> > > Those improvments were very, very close and they could have killed avid and made me switch....
> > >
> > > But they didn't....
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
>

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[Avid-L2] Re: Why fcpx is bad for avid

 

Here's the thing- you never could. They aren't a video editing software company, this is NOT what they do.

I somehow remember saying this years ago. Deja Vu, man!

JDS

--- In Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com, "Bart" <bart@...> wrote:
You can't trust apple anymore.
> --
>

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[Avid-L2] Re: What will Avid do? [plug ins]

 


Oh my god; that's true ! Please don't tell more, it's too painfull...

Btw i also remember we bought it a few months before adrenaline came out, grumbbble....
--- In Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com, "jeffsengpiehl" <jeffsengpiehl@...> wrote:
>
> the "Fix" for that was to use Composer edit settings, not "new" Xpress ones.
>
> JDS
>
> --- In Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com, "Rupert Watson" <rupert@> wrote:
> >
> > Yeah it did. It was a shit idea then, too ;-)
> >
> > Rupert Watson
> > +44 7787 554 801
> > www.root6.com
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
> > Of Benjamin Hershleder
> > Sent: 25 June 2011 00:27
> > To: Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: Re: [Avid-L2] What will Avid do? [plug ins]
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Jun 24, 2011, at 3:01 PM, Philip Hodgetts wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > On Jun 24, 2011, at 2:45 PM, Rupert Watson wrote:
> > >
> > > > I notice you didn't include Media100, Philip :-)
> > >
> > > Single window display borrowed from Vegas *and* the original Media
> > 100!
> > >
> >
> > And, as far as I can remember, didn't the Avid "Express" (the one before
> > Xpress Pro existed) also start out with just one "record" window, and
> > when you opened a clip it was in a "pop-up" monitor?
> >
> >
> > Benjamin Hershleder
> > http://ContactBen.com
> > http://Hershleder.com
> >
> > Wear It In Post!
> > Fun T-shirts, mousepads, mugs & more
> > for Post Production Professionals
> > http://www.WearItInPost.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > >
> > > :)
> > >
> > > Philip
> > >
> > > Philip Hodgetts
> > > President, Intelligent Assistance
> > > Conquering the metadata foundations of Final Cut Pro X
> > > http://bit.ly/mBDqIY
> > >
> > > Personal Blog http://philiphodgetts.com Cell 818 335 3916
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > Search the offical complete Avid-L archives at:
> > http://archives.bengrosser.com/avid/
> >
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> >
> >
> >
> >
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> >
>

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Recent Activity:
Search the offical complete Avid-L archives at:   http://archives.bengrosser.com/avid/

If you want to donate to Red Cross quake relief, you can do so through your cell phone. Text redcross to 90999 to make a $10 donation. It will be on your next cell bill.
.

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