Saturday, September 22, 2012

Re: [Avid-L2] Re: Crap the docs say

 


Could it be that when you choose a custom heading that does not list certain headings that are specific to the media type, you risk losing that data when transcoding?

__._,_.___
Recent Activity:
Search the official Complete Avid-L archives at:   http://archives.bengrosser.com/avid/
.

__,_._,___

Re: [Avid-L2] ProRes export weirdness, with same-as-source export (LONG)

 

, ProRes exports always behave as though they were exported
> as RGB, regardless of whether RGB or 601 was chosen in the export dialogue.
>
> This is consistent with the results you just reported, as well as the
> odd results I reported earlier in this thread.

Michael,

That doesn't make sense to me. If the APR export would behave like it was exported as RGB (which would crush 0-15 and clip 236-255), a re-import into Avid would show different levels, and it does not. All levels below 16 and over 235 are maintained.

It's hard to follow your test results as they show up mangled up here.

How and where are you determining that the APR export "behaves like RGB"?

J

__._,_.___
Recent Activity:
Search the official Complete Avid-L archives at:   http://archives.bengrosser.com/avid/
.

__,_._,___

Re: [Avid-L2] ProRes export weirdness, with same-as-source export (LONG)

 

As feared, my table of results got mangled. Let's see if this work any
better in plain text:

CodecExport Quicktime displayRe-import ­ compare Levels

DnxHD 220xRGBClipped and stretched *601Unchanged

601Full range (unchanged) 601Unchanged

RGBClipped and stretchedRGBGamma correct, clipped **

601Full range (unchanged)RGBNothing clipped, range squeezed ***

ProRes HQRGBClipped and stretched601Unchanged

601*/Clipped and stretched/*601Unchanged

**

RGBClipped and stretched**RGBGamma correct, clipped

601*/Clipped and stretched/*RGB*/Gamma correct, clipped/*

On 12-09-22 9:28 PM, Michael Brockington wrote:
>
> Hi Job:
>
> Thanks for doing some testing. I've reproduced your results.I've done
> more tests as well, and can conclude that ProRes files exported
> Same-as-source from Avid do behave differently than DNxHD exports in a
> couple of cases.
>
> In a nutshell, ProRes exports always behave as though they were exported
> as RGB, regardless of whether RGB or 601 was chosen in the export
> dialogue.
>
> This is consistent with the results you just reported, as well as the
> odd results I reported earlier in this thread.
>
> Here's a table of my results that lead me to this conclusion.I limited
> my testing to DNxHD220x and ProRes HQ, but imagine the results would
> hold for other codecs in the same family.
>
> The DNxHD results are as expected.I have highlighted the 2 cases in this
> table where the ProRes results differ from the DNxHD.In both cases, it
> appears the ProRes results ignore the export flag being set to 601, and
> are always treated as though the Avid export flag was set to RGB.
>
>

>
>
> *Clipped and stretched -- indicates values have been truncted below 16
> and above 235, then stretched to the range 0-255.
>
> ** Gamma correct, clipped -- no values exist above 235 or below 16, but
> everything in between is unchanged.
>
> *** Nothing clipped, range squeezed -- the full range of values 0-255
> have been scaled into the range 16-235.So no values exist above 235 or
> below 16, but nothing has been truncated.
>
> It seems likely the RGB/601 setting for Avid quicktime exports just sets
> a flag in the quicktime file -- no pixel values are actually changed in
> the file during output.If this were not the case, then it would take
> longer to output an RGB file as 601, or vice-versa, when in practice,
> quicktime output seems to take the same length of time regardless of the
> RGB/601 output setting.
>
> When 601 is set on import, it overrides any RGB flag setting in the
> quicktime file, allowing access to the original pixel values.
>
> When RGB is set on import Avid actually changes the pixel values of the
> imported file, mapping 16 to 0 and 235 to 255, crushing all values below
> 16 and all values above 235.The pixel values are permanently truncated.
>
> Avid may never read the RGB/601 flag from the quicktime file on import
> since the user always specifies one or the other on import.
>
> In these tests, After Effects shows the same results as desktop preview
> in the finder.So it is honouring the 601/RGB flag correctly when
> importing DNxHD quicktimes, and it is also treating ProRes quicktimes as
> always having the RGB flag set.Unlike Avid, it has no way to override
> the 601/RGB flag on import.
>
> On 12-09-22 2:16 AM, Job ter Burg (L2B) wrote:
> >
> > Michael,
> >
> > I re-tested this, albeit in 6.0, on Mac.
> >
> > - Traditional Import the Belle Nuit Test Chart at 709 setting to Apple
> > ProRes MXF
> > - Splice into sequence
> > - Export Same As Source with 709 levels
> > - Re-Import (a Fast Import) that exported file at 709 setting
> > - Second import matches the first one 100%, also when watched on the
> WFM.
> >
> > My guess is that you are determining the color levels some other way,
> > and perhaps the application you are using for that is using Quicktime
> > to feed the signal. The way that I describe above makes no use of the
> > Quicktime software at all. It just rewraps from MXF to QT (Same As
> > Source export), then from QT to MXF (Fast Import).
> >
> > Job.
> >
> >
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

__._,_.___
Recent Activity:
Search the official Complete Avid-L archives at:   http://archives.bengrosser.com/avid/
.

__,_._,___

Re: [Avid-L2] ProRes export weirdness, with same-as-source export (LONG)

 

Hi Job:

Thanks for doing some testing. I've reproduced your results.I've done
more tests as well, and can conclude that ProRes files exported
Same-as-source from Avid do behave differently than DNxHD exports in a
couple of cases.

In a nutshell, ProRes exports always behave as though they were exported
as RGB, regardless of whether RGB or 601 was chosen in the export dialogue.

This is consistent with the results you just reported, as well as the
odd results I reported earlier in this thread.

Here's a table of my results that lead me to this conclusion.I limited
my testing to DNxHD220x and ProRes HQ, but imagine the results would
hold for other codecs in the same family.

The DNxHD results are as expected.I have highlighted the 2 cases in this
table where the ProRes results differ from the DNxHD.In both cases, it
appears the ProRes results ignore the export flag being set to 601, and
are always treated as though the Avid export flag was set to RGB.

Codec



Export from Avid



Quicktime display (finder preview, After Effects)



Re-import to Avid



Levels in Avid -- compare re-import to original









DnxHD 220x



RGB



Clipped and stretched *



601



Unchanged



601



Full range (unchanged)



601



Unchanged











RGB



Clipped and stretched



RGB



Gamma correct, clipped **



601



Full range (unchanged)



RGB



Nothing clipped, range squeezed ***









ProRes HQ



RGB



Clipped and stretched



601



Unchanged



601



*/Clipped and stretched/*



601



Unchanged





**







RGB



Clipped and stretched**



RGB



Gamma correct, clipped



601



*/Clipped and stretched/***



RGB



*/Gamma correct, clipped/*

*Clipped and stretched -- indicates values have been truncted below 16
and above 235, then stretched to the range 0-255.

** Gamma correct, clipped -- no values exist above 235 or below 16, but
everything in between is unchanged.

*** Nothing clipped, range squeezed -- the full range of values 0-255
have been scaled into the range 16-235.So no values exist above 235 or
below 16, but nothing has been truncated.

It seems likely the RGB/601 setting for Avid quicktime exports just sets
a flag in the quicktime file -- no pixel values are actually changed in
the file during output.If this were not the case, then it would take
longer to output an RGB file as 601, or vice-versa, when in practice,
quicktime output seems to take the same length of time regardless of the
RGB/601 output setting.

When 601 is set on import, it overrides any RGB flag setting in the
quicktime file, allowing access to the original pixel values.

When RGB is set on import Avid actually changes the pixel values of the
imported file, mapping 16 to 0 and 235 to 255, crushing all values below
16 and all values above 235.The pixel values are permanently truncated.

Avid may never read the RGB/601 flag from the quicktime file on import
since the user always specifies one or the other on import.

In these tests, After Effects shows the same results as desktop preview
in the finder.So it is honouring the 601/RGB flag correctly when
importing DNxHD quicktimes, and it is also treating ProRes quicktimes as
always having the RGB flag set.Unlike Avid, it has no way to override
the 601/RGB flag on import.

On 12-09-22 2:16 AM, Job ter Burg (L2B) wrote:
>
> Michael,
>
> I re-tested this, albeit in 6.0, on Mac.
>
> - Traditional Import the Belle Nuit Test Chart at 709 setting to Apple
> ProRes MXF
> - Splice into sequence
> - Export Same As Source with 709 levels
> - Re-Import (a Fast Import) that exported file at 709 setting
> - Second import matches the first one 100%, also when watched on the WFM.
>
> My guess is that you are determining the color levels some other way,
> and perhaps the application you are using for that is using Quicktime
> to feed the signal. The way that I describe above makes no use of the
> Quicktime software at all. It just rewraps from MXF to QT (Same As
> Source export), then from QT to MXF (Fast Import).
>
> Job.
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

__._,_.___
Recent Activity:
Search the official Complete Avid-L archives at:   http://archives.bengrosser.com/avid/
.

__,_._,___

[Avid-L2] Re: Crap the docs say

 

Perhaps there are so many additional types of meta data a custom bin view might not see some additional meta data field. I don't know why that would be a problem just guess. Could or is there some provision for Avid to automatically create headings based on the meta data an ama linked file has? Kinda like a CSV file properly formated will display in Excel the ALE files work IIRC. Just asking to learn I don't know if this is how it work or if it is even possible.
--- In Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com, Steve Hullfish <steve4lists@...> wrote:
>
> I don't know and the docs don't specify why. My guess is that since AMA is basically just pointing at the media file with no additional media management layered on top, as with OMF files, that trying to assign custom data to what is essentially just an unmanaged pointer file is too tough for the system to handle. I don't know anything about how custom data is handled for OMF or AMA, so I'm just taking a stab in the dark.
>
> More good reasons to TRANSCODE YOUR MEDIA, FOLKS.
>
> Steve Hullfish
> contributor: www.provideocoalition.com
> author: "The Art and Technique of Digital Color Correction"
>
> On Sep 22, 2012, at 12:14 PM, Greg Huson <Greg@...> wrote:
>
> > Is there any explanation why you wouldn't use custom bin settings? That's pretty frightening.
>

__._,_.___
Recent Activity:
Search the official Complete Avid-L archives at:   http://archives.bengrosser.com/avid/
.

__,_._,___

Re: [Avid-L2] Crap the docs say

I don't know and the docs don't specify why. My guess is that since AMA is basically just pointing at the media file with no additional media management layered on top, as with OMF files, that trying to assign custom data to what is essentially just an unmanaged pointer file is too tough for the system to handle. I don't know anything about how custom data is handled for OMF or AMA, so I'm just taking a stab in the dark.

More good reasons to TRANSCODE YOUR MEDIA, FOLKS.

Steve Hullfish
contributor: www.provideocoalition.com
author: "The Art and Technique of Digital Color Correction"

On Sep 22, 2012, at 12:14 PM, Greg Huson <Greg@SecretHQ.com> wrote:

> Is there any explanation why you wouldn't use custom bin settings? That's pretty frightening.



------------------------------------

Search the official Complete Avid-L archives at: http://archives.bengrosser.com/avid/
Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Avid-L2/

<*> Your email settings:
Individual Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Avid-L2/join
(Yahoo! ID required)

<*> To change settings via email:
Avid-L2-digest@yahoogroups.com
Avid-L2-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Avid-L2-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

[Avid-L2] Re: OT: Macbook Pro Ethernet check? Solution?

 

Well back at home and it is working on my home ethernet with no adjustment and the 10.0.1.1 DNS server is light grey. I'm going to say the problem is solved, at least with my computer, but the problem that caused the problem is me. Oh well progress not perfection some days I'm just a headphone separator, IDtenT or PICNIC moment.

--- In Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com, Jay Mahavier <jay_mahavier@...> wrote:
>
> yes, the light grey are the addresses that are picked up from a DHCP server. The black numbers are manual entries. So things are working properly for your laptop at work. The question is if your laptop will automatically pick up the DNS address from the DHCP server at home, or if you are going to have to manually enter those (for whatever mysterious reason). If that becomes the new reality for that laptop, that DHCP works fine everywhere but at home, then that's when you may want to try the Locations thing. Make a location called normal, where all the settings are for DHCP like the are now while you are at work, and then make one called Home, that has the manually entered DNS addresses. Then each day (night) when you get home you will have to go into your control panel and switch it to Home. Then when you leave you have to go in a switch it back. PITA.
>
> If that is the case then my suggestion is that you try a new router for your home.
>
> Jay
>
> On Sep 21, 2012, at 11:58 AM, johnrobmoore wrote:
>
> > Okay when I got to work with my dns server set to 10.0.1.1 I could not log on over ethernet. When I checked the network ethernet advanced tab DNS I saw the numbers for 2 dns servers that one of which was the server number I removed last night. I went back and deleted the 10.0.1.1 address which was dark black text and after tabbing around the field was filled with the 2 dns server numbers from the advanced tab DNS only now the text was light grey. So I'm pretty sure a few weeks back I inadvertently manually entered one of the dns server numbers for our new microwave internet at work and that has over ridden the automatic discovery of dns servers ever since then. Now that I have erased the manually entered number it seems to automatically find the dns servers for work. I assume when I get home the same will happen and the dns server will revert to 10.0.1.1 only I expect it to be in light grey text. It seems the convention is light grey is automatic and dark black is manually entered addresses.
> >
> > --- In Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com, Jay Mahavier <jay_mahavier@> wrote:
> >>
> >> The DNS entry is the address for the computer to find the DNS server. The DNS server is where the name/address translation takes place for the WWW. So when you type in avid.com that request is sent to the DNS server that looks up the public IP address of the Avid website and then directs your web browser there. So if you have the wrong IP address entry for the DNS server then you get no name to address translation and no connection to locations on the internet. And that's the basic form.
> >>
> >> Jay
> >>
> >> On Sep 21, 2012, at 1:16 AM, johnrobmoore wrote:
> >>
> >>> Well everything is talking now even my Tek Scope. I know when I checked in the locations the only thing there is automatic. I was also informed that the reason I was still able to access the network printer is that it doesn't use the same protocol and it was suggested it was probably connecting through bonjour. I guess that would also suggest that my ability to log into other computers at home is that doesn't work on the DNS protocol or would that be TCP/IP? I don't know I think I remember the mac just finding the printer or I might have run a driver cd that came with it. It's curious that I have never had the problem before this week. But as I mentioned perhaps I inadvertently entered a dns server when I was trouble shooting the network at work a few weeks back but I think I would have noticed this issue sooner. Maybe I haven't logged in at home until this weeks since my network trouble shooting at work. I'm sure it will boil down to a problem with the Head Phone Separator. ;-) I'll post what happens when I'm back at work tomorrow. I was already to just buy a new MBP with this as an excuse. Oh well at least I know how to fake a break down to convince my wife when I need a new computer.
> >>>
> >>> --- In Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com, Jay Mahavier <jay_mahavier@> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> the DNS should get set by the DHCP server. But if you aren't getting the correct DNS that's the problem. Manually add the entry for home and see if when you go to work if the work ones get picked up also. It should run through the IPs until it finds a good one. But it may slow things a bit. Or you can try the Locations thing. I've never done it myself, but you should be able to set presets for different locations. One for home that has manual entry and one for work that is DHCP. But I think that when you change locations you have to manually change it in that pull down menu in the control panel.
> >>>>
> >>>> jay
> >>>>
> >>>> On Sep 21, 2012, at 12:38 AM, johnrobmoore wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> So it turned out the DNS Server was wrong although it worked at work. I looked at the functioning MacBook and the DNS Server was 10.0.1.1 which is the same as the Router 10.0.1.1. On my MacBook Pro it was set to som 6.xxx.xxx.xx type of number. When does the DNS Server get set and how does it get changed. I don't recall doing anything with it but I did do some network trouble shooting with my MBP a few weeks back when they switched over the ISP service to a microwave setup. I didn't get logged into that correctly but maybe I entered some data manually that stuck. Well It's working now but how have I been successfully bouncing between work network and home network without ever setting these things up?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> --- In Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com, "johnrobmoore" <bigfish@> wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Thanks I just found it at the top pull down menu. Mine just has automatic. Perhaps adding a new untitled location will help and I'll check the dns server.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> --- In Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com, Jay Mahavier <jay_mahavier@> wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Locations is located in System Perfs / Network in a dropdown at the center top (I think).
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Also, Bogdan has a good idea. When at home go see what the DNS server settings are for one of the other laptops. And then on your laptop select the service for you ethernet port and go to Advanced and then DNS and manually enter those addresses and see what happens.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Jay
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> On Sep 20, 2012, at 12:33 PM, johnrobmoore wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> I'm on a Mac and I looked in the system prefs for network but don't see anything that relates to location. Where might I find that control on mbp os 10.6.8? I tried spotlight with network location but nothing came up.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> --- In Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com, Tim Selander <selander@> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Hi John,
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> haven't read the whole thread, so you may have found the answer.
> >>>>>>>>> But a few months ago I had the same trouble as you. Turned out I
> >>>>>>>>> could fix it by changing the Network Location (where you set up
> >>>>>>>>> network configurations for home, work, public wifi, etc). Just a
> >>>>>>>>> guess, but I figure some file that held the settings got
> >>>>>>>>> corrupted. Made a new Location, and all was well.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Tim Selander
> >>>>>>>>> Tokyo, Japan
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> On 9/20/12 2:39 PM, John Moore wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>> f the cable is good why would my MBP work on the ethernet connection at work but not at home. Nothing has changed on my Airport base station at home. At least I've done nothing to change it. Any suggestions?
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> ------------------------------------
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Search the official Complete Avid-L archives at: http://archives.bengrosser.com/avid/
> >>>>>>>> Yahoo! Groups Links
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> ------------------------------------
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Search the official Complete Avid-L archives at: http://archives.bengrosser.com/avid/
> >>>>> Yahoo! Groups Links
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> ------------------------------------
> >>>
> >>> Search the official Complete Avid-L archives at: http://archives.bengrosser.com/avid/
> >>> Yahoo! Groups Links
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > Search the official Complete Avid-L archives at: http://archives.bengrosser.com/avid/
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
>

__._,_.___
Recent Activity:
Search the official Complete Avid-L archives at:   http://archives.bengrosser.com/avid/
.

__,_._,___

Re: [Avid-L2] Crap the docs say

Is there any explanation why you wouldn't use custom bin settings? That's pretty frightening.

gh
----------------------------------------------------
Greg Huson
Secret Headquarters, Inc
Post Production / Production
Culver City, CA
323 677 2092
www.DigitalServiceStation.com
greg (at) SecretHQ.com
www.SecretHQ.com




On Sep 22, 2012, at 10:09 AM, Steve Hullfish <steve4lists@veralith.com> wrote:

> In the grand tradition of the best-selling book "S&^%T my dad says" I thought I would provide a post "Crap the Docs Say"
>
> It's fascinating what you learn when you read the documentation. Today's nugget was:
>
> When you use AMA and metadata column headings, Avid recommends that you do not create
> custom bin views. Use the default preset bin views.
>
> Steve Hullfish
> contributor: www.provideocoalition.com
> author: "The Art and Technique of Digital Color Correction"
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>



------------------------------------

Search the official Complete Avid-L archives at: http://archives.bengrosser.com/avid/
Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Avid-L2/

<*> Your email settings:
Individual Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Avid-L2/join
(Yahoo! ID required)

<*> To change settings via email:
Avid-L2-digest@yahoogroups.com
Avid-L2-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Avid-L2-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

[Avid-L2] Crap the docs say

 

In the grand tradition of the best-selling book "S&^%T my dad says" I thought I would provide a post "Crap the Docs Say"

It's fascinating what you learn when you read the documentation. Today's nugget was:

When you use AMA and metadata column headings, Avid recommends that you do not create
custom bin views. Use the default preset bin views.

Steve Hullfish
contributor: www.provideocoalition.com
author: "The Art and Technique of Digital Color Correction"

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

__._,_.___
Recent Activity:
Search the official Complete Avid-L archives at:   http://archives.bengrosser.com/avid/
.

__,_._,___

Re: [Avid-L2] Double System sound

 

Great to know... Thanks

Steve Hullfish
contributor: www.provideocoalition.com
author: "The Art and Technique of Digital Color Correction"

On Sep 22, 2012, at 11:48 AM, Michael Brockington <brocking@sfu.ca> wrote:
>
>
> If you select a sequence (synced presumably, whether by hand or via
> PluralEyes) and invoke autosync, it will turn that sequence into a
> subclip. You can select a bin full of sunk-up sequences and turn them
> into subclips with a single command. So it doesn't need to be quite as
> painful as you describe below.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

__._,_.___
Recent Activity:
Search the official Complete Avid-L archives at:   http://archives.bengrosser.com/avid/
.

__,_._,___

Re: [Avid-L2] Double System sound

 

Hi Steve:

I basically agree with everything you've written. However there is an
additional way to use autosync that does away with the pain of creating
clips from sequences.

If you select a sequence (synced presumably, whether by hand or via
PluralEyes) and invoke autosync, it will turn that sequence into a
subclip. You can select a bin full of sunk-up sequences and turn them
into subclips with a single command. So it doesn't need to be quite as
painful as you describe below.

Cheers,
--Michael

On 12-09-22 7:27 AM, Steve Hullfish wrote:
> I thought the PluralEyes workflow was a little weird (and time intensive) because it basically syncs stuff up in an Avid timeline, not really creating an actual synced CLIP. You have to subclip the synced clips, creating subsequences, that you then edit with. Of course, if you leave them as subsequences, most likely if you double click on them, they don't go to the Source window like a typical clip would, they go to the SEQUENCE window... Annoying. So you then either have to generate a clip from the subsequence or always remember to drag the subsequence to the source monitor... That's a LOT of steps just to have synced audio.
>
>

__._,_.___
Recent Activity:
Search the official Complete Avid-L archives at:   http://archives.bengrosser.com/avid/
.

__,_._,___

Re: [Avid-L2] Double System sound

 

The one time I used Puraleyes I hated it for just that reason.  Felt Like I was cutting at 1/4 speed!!

--- On Sat, 9/22/12, Steve Hullfish <steve4lists@veralith.com> wrote:

From: Steve Hullfish <steve4lists@veralith.com>
Subject: Re: [Avid-L2] Double System sound
To: Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com
Date: Saturday, September 22, 2012, 10:27 AM

I'm with Bouke... If there's matching timecode, what the heck is the problem?

You can create an autosync'd clip, matching the video and audio files together into a single file. No need for PluralEyes. This is a function inside of Avid. All you have to do is select the audio file and the video file that are supposed to match (via timecode) select one of them, comd/control-click the other file and choose AutoSync from the Bin menu and Bob's your Uncle. The two clips are magically joined as if you'd recorded them together. WAY easier than PluralEyes... but PluralEyes is NOT for when you have matching timecode anyway. Use AutoSync. This is how features do dailies. Even if you don't have matching timecode, you can still use AutoSync... you just have to find some other way to match (which is what PluralEyes helps with)... But if you slate your takes so that there's a visual cue in the video and an audio cue in the audio, then you can match the two together by placing an inpoint on the cue in both the audio and video file and using the
InPoint option in AutoSync. You can do this without a slate if you can find a matching sound in each clip and placing inpoints there.... That's kind of what PluralEyes is doing for you automatically... It all depends on how many of these clips you have to sync... PluralEyes will definitely help if there are a lot of them... Otherwise, you're almost better off doing it manually for just a few clips.

I thought the PluralEyes workflow was a little weird (and time intensive) because it basically syncs stuff up in an Avid timeline, not really creating an actual synced CLIP. You have to subclip the synced clips, creating subsequences, that you then edit with. Of course, if you leave them as subsequences, most likely if you double click on them, they don't go to the Source window like a typical clip would, they go to the SEQUENCE window... Annoying. So you then either have to generate a clip from the subsequence or always remember to drag the subsequence to the source monitor... That's a LOT of steps just to have synced audio.

Also, if you do this with a 5D, the 5Ds internal audio is off by enough that the PluralEyes matches the "good" audio with the un-sync'd BAD audio, so it really doesn't do you any good... you need to match the VIDEO in the video to the AUDIO in the audio... PluralEyes matches audio to audio... so if the original audio is slightly out of sync (on the 5D this is regularly), then you haven't helped yourself at all.

Steve Hullfish
contributor: www.provideocoalition.com

On Sep 22, 2012, at 5:15 AM, bouke <bouke@editb.nl> wrote:

> Jeez, i cannot imagine why NOT to import sound.
> And i'm truely amazed people recommend PluralEyes when there is common
> timecode!
>
> personally i'm not a big fan of Pluraleyes. Great under lab conditions, but
> in (my) real life, it's dog slow and makes a lot of mistakes.
> (or fails alltogether)
>
> So, my way of dealing with a mess of non-common TC (after kicking the
> client...)
> Even if there isn't a lock, there is always free run TC, or even file
> creation time / date.
>
> Autosequence sound and video based on that, put them into one timeline,
> shift the entire audio shebang to match one clip and the rest will match as
> well.
> (not exactly, but you're very close.)
>
> Faster than Pluraleyes, not a lot of room for error.
>
> Bouke
>
> VideoToolShed
> van Oldenbarneveltstraat 33
> 6512 AS NIJMEGEN
> The Netherlands
> +31 24 3553311
> www.videotoolshed.com
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "ksirul" <kenavid2@glueedit.com>
> To: <Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 11:01 PM
> Subject: [Avid-L2] Re: Double System sound
>
> Thanks. I imported the audio files and not AMA.
>
> KEN
>
> --- In Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com, "Job ter Burg (L2B)" <Job_L2@...> wrote:
> >
> > Ken,
> >
> > Not sure if you're doing that or not, but make sure you don't use AMA for
> > bringing in the sound files. Traditional import takes TC and other
> > metadata from the BWAV's BEXT chunk, but if you AMA BWAV files, you are
> > relying on whatever timecode QuickTime player decides to supply you with.
> > And we all know what a great piece of software QuickTime is. Or, to
> > paraphrase Terry, friends don't let friends rely on QuickTime for
> > anything.
> >
> > J
> >
> > Sent from my iPad
> >
> > On Sep 21, 2012, at 22:08, "ksirul" <kenavid2@...> wrote:
> >
> > > Just checked. TC matches both cam and audio and there is in fact ref
> > > audio on F3 footage. Thanks
> > >
> > > --- In Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com, Jim Feeley <jfeeley@> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> How did they send TC to the F3? In my experience, the F3's clock isn't
> > >> so stable. I'll assume the source TC from audio is stable. If they
> > >> stuck a lockit or similar tc generator on the camera and left it there,
> > >> then you're probably in good shape. If they just jammed directly to the
> > >> camera in the morning and then after lunch, then camera TC might wander
> > >> a bit after a while. If they were relying on the F3's clock, you may
> > >> need to do some visual syncing with later takes. Or not...kind of a
> > >> crap shoot, ime.
> > >>
> > >> Good luck,
> > >>
> > >> Jim Feeley
> > >> jfeeley@
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> On Sep 21, 2012, at 11:48 AM, ksirul wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> No audio on F3. I'm hoping TC matches!
> > >>>
> > >>> --- In Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com, "Tony Breuer" <tonybreuer@> wrote:
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Hopefully the cameraman left the camera mic on. I recently had a
> > >>>> whole scene in a movie to cut where the cameraman didn't record any
> > >>>> audio on the F3. His response was, "Why should I. The sound guy
> > >>>> recorded it. Use Plural Eyes".
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Now as editors we are expected to be able to read lips.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Tony
> > >>>>
> > >>>> --- In Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com, "ksirul" <kenavid2@> wrote:
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Hmm, these are both good ideas, especially since I can download a 30
> > >>>>> day trial of Plural Eyes and be done with it. Any benefit over one
> > >>>>> or the other?
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> KEN
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> --- In Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com, Marcus <gen@> wrote:
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> Group clips by time code.
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> Marcus
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> -----Original Message-----
> > >>>>>> From: ksirul
> > >>>>>> Sent: 21/09/2012 19:02
> > >>>>>> To: Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com
> > >>>>>> Subject: [Avid-L2] Double System sound
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> I have not needed to do this before but here we go. I got some F3
> > >>>>>> interviews with sound recorded on an external sound device. I
> > >>>>>> planned on AMAing the footage into MC6.0.1 for editing. What is the
> > >>>>>> best way to marry the sound and pix? I believe it has matching time
> > >>>>>> code. I may also need to be able to link back to the original F3
> > >>>>>> material. What can I do? Metafuze? Something else?
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> Thanks,
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> KEN
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> ------------------------------------
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> Search the official Complete Avid-L archives at:
> > >>>>>> http://archives.bengrosser.com/avid/
> > >>>>>> Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ------------------------------------
> > >
> > > Search the official Complete Avid-L archives at:
> > > http://archives.bengrosser.com/avid/
> > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

------------------------------------

Search the official Complete Avid-L archives at:   http://archives.bengrosser.com/avid/
Yahoo! Groups Links

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

__._,_.___
Recent Activity:
Search the official Complete Avid-L archives at:   http://archives.bengrosser.com/avid/
.

__,_._,___

[Avid-L2] 6.5 project and bin naming

I searched the ENTIRE What's New document to find the specs on the new naming conventions for bins and projects with no success.

Can someone point me to them? I looked on the web page. I looked in the PDF. Granted it's not some big "feature" that's marketable, but I was able to find NOTHING except a mention that there has BEEN a change, with no specifics on what the change IS exactly.

The old limit was 27 characters I believe and a small series of disallowed characters / \ : * ? " < > | as well as opening and trailing spaces and periods. I'm assuming the character limitations are still in place, we can just have longer bin names and project names? Or do Project names stay the same?

Steve Hullfish
contributor: www.provideocoalition.com
author: "The Art and Technique of Digital Color Correction"

------------------------------------

Search the official Complete Avid-L archives at: http://archives.bengrosser.com/avid/
Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Avid-L2/

<*> Your email settings:
Individual Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Avid-L2/join
(Yahoo! ID required)

<*> To change settings via email:
Avid-L2-digest@yahoogroups.com
Avid-L2-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Avid-L2-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Re: [Avid-L2] Double System sound

I'm with Bouke... If there's matching timecode, what the heck is the problem?

You can create an autosync'd clip, matching the video and audio files together into a single file. No need for PluralEyes. This is a function inside of Avid. All you have to do is select the audio file and the video file that are supposed to match (via timecode) select one of them, comd/control-click the other file and choose AutoSync from the Bin menu and Bob's your Uncle. The two clips are magically joined as if you'd recorded them together. WAY easier than PluralEyes... but PluralEyes is NOT for when you have matching timecode anyway. Use AutoSync. This is how features do dailies. Even if you don't have matching timecode, you can still use AutoSync... you just have to find some other way to match (which is what PluralEyes helps with)... But if you slate your takes so that there's a visual cue in the video and an audio cue in the audio, then you can match the two together by placing an inpoint on the cue in both the audio and video file and using the InPoint option in AutoSync. You can do this without a slate if you can find a matching sound in each clip and placing inpoints there.... That's kind of what PluralEyes is doing for you automatically... It all depends on how many of these clips you have to sync... PluralEyes will definitely help if there are a lot of them... Otherwise, you're almost better off doing it manually for just a few clips.

I thought the PluralEyes workflow was a little weird (and time intensive) because it basically syncs stuff up in an Avid timeline, not really creating an actual synced CLIP. You have to subclip the synced clips, creating subsequences, that you then edit with. Of course, if you leave them as subsequences, most likely if you double click on them, they don't go to the Source window like a typical clip would, they go to the SEQUENCE window... Annoying. So you then either have to generate a clip from the subsequence or always remember to drag the subsequence to the source monitor... That's a LOT of steps just to have synced audio.

Also, if you do this with a 5D, the 5Ds internal audio is off by enough that the PluralEyes matches the "good" audio with the un-sync'd BAD audio, so it really doesn't do you any good... you need to match the VIDEO in the video to the AUDIO in the audio... PluralEyes matches audio to audio... so if the original audio is slightly out of sync (on the 5D this is regularly), then you haven't helped yourself at all.


Steve Hullfish
contributor: www.provideocoalition.com

On Sep 22, 2012, at 5:15 AM, bouke <bouke@editb.nl> wrote:

> Jeez, i cannot imagine why NOT to import sound.
> And i'm truely amazed people recommend PluralEyes when there is common
> timecode!
>
> personally i'm not a big fan of Pluraleyes. Great under lab conditions, but
> in (my) real life, it's dog slow and makes a lot of mistakes.
> (or fails alltogether)
>
> So, my way of dealing with a mess of non-common TC (after kicking the
> client...)
> Even if there isn't a lock, there is always free run TC, or even file
> creation time / date.
>
> Autosequence sound and video based on that, put them into one timeline,
> shift the entire audio shebang to match one clip and the rest will match as
> well.
> (not exactly, but you're very close.)
>
> Faster than Pluraleyes, not a lot of room for error.
>
> Bouke
>
> VideoToolShed
> van Oldenbarneveltstraat 33
> 6512 AS NIJMEGEN
> The Netherlands
> +31 24 3553311
> www.videotoolshed.com
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "ksirul" <kenavid2@glueedit.com>
> To: <Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 11:01 PM
> Subject: [Avid-L2] Re: Double System sound
>
> Thanks. I imported the audio files and not AMA.
>
> KEN
>
> --- In Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com, "Job ter Burg (L2B)" <Job_L2@...> wrote:
> >
> > Ken,
> >
> > Not sure if you're doing that or not, but make sure you don't use AMA for
> > bringing in the sound files. Traditional import takes TC and other
> > metadata from the BWAV's BEXT chunk, but if you AMA BWAV files, you are
> > relying on whatever timecode QuickTime player decides to supply you with.
> > And we all know what a great piece of software QuickTime is. Or, to
> > paraphrase Terry, friends don't let friends rely on QuickTime for
> > anything.
> >
> > J
> >
> > Sent from my iPad
> >
> > On Sep 21, 2012, at 22:08, "ksirul" <kenavid2@...> wrote:
> >
> > > Just checked. TC matches both cam and audio and there is in fact ref
> > > audio on F3 footage. Thanks
> > >
> > > --- In Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com, Jim Feeley <jfeeley@> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> How did they send TC to the F3? In my experience, the F3's clock isn't
> > >> so stable. I'll assume the source TC from audio is stable. If they
> > >> stuck a lockit or similar tc generator on the camera and left it there,
> > >> then you're probably in good shape. If they just jammed directly to the
> > >> camera in the morning and then after lunch, then camera TC might wander
> > >> a bit after a while. If they were relying on the F3's clock, you may
> > >> need to do some visual syncing with later takes. Or not...kind of a
> > >> crap shoot, ime.
> > >>
> > >> Good luck,
> > >>
> > >> Jim Feeley
> > >> jfeeley@
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> On Sep 21, 2012, at 11:48 AM, ksirul wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> No audio on F3. I'm hoping TC matches!
> > >>>
> > >>> --- In Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com, "Tony Breuer" <tonybreuer@> wrote:
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Hopefully the cameraman left the camera mic on. I recently had a
> > >>>> whole scene in a movie to cut where the cameraman didn't record any
> > >>>> audio on the F3. His response was, "Why should I. The sound guy
> > >>>> recorded it. Use Plural Eyes".
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Now as editors we are expected to be able to read lips.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Tony
> > >>>>
> > >>>> --- In Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com, "ksirul" <kenavid2@> wrote:
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Hmm, these are both good ideas, especially since I can download a 30
> > >>>>> day trial of Plural Eyes and be done with it. Any benefit over one
> > >>>>> or the other?
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> KEN
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> --- In Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com, Marcus <gen@> wrote:
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> Group clips by time code.
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> Marcus
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> -----Original Message-----
> > >>>>>> From: ksirul
> > >>>>>> Sent: 21/09/2012 19:02
> > >>>>>> To: Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com
> > >>>>>> Subject: [Avid-L2] Double System sound
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> I have not needed to do this before but here we go. I got some F3
> > >>>>>> interviews with sound recorded on an external sound device. I
> > >>>>>> planned on AMAing the footage into MC6.0.1 for editing. What is the
> > >>>>>> best way to marry the sound and pix? I believe it has matching time
> > >>>>>> code. I may also need to be able to link back to the original F3
> > >>>>>> material. What can I do? Metafuze? Something else?
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> Thanks,
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> KEN
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> ------------------------------------
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> Search the official Complete Avid-L archives at:
> > >>>>>> http://archives.bengrosser.com/avid/
> > >>>>>> Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ------------------------------------
> > >
> > > Search the official Complete Avid-L archives at:
> > > http://archives.bengrosser.com/avid/
> > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



------------------------------------

Search the official Complete Avid-L archives at: http://archives.bengrosser.com/avid/
Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Avid-L2/

<*> Your email settings:
Individual Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Avid-L2/join
(Yahoo! ID required)

<*> To change settings via email:
Avid-L2-digest@yahoogroups.com
Avid-L2-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Avid-L2-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
There was an error in this gadget