Monday, July 13, 2015

Re: [Avid-L2] Closed Captioning Track in QT .mov Extracting and Reinserting? Out Come

 

So after testing today the Winner is this requires a "Save As" to make a self contained file.  I tried taking my existing self contained .mov and just adding the closed caption track using QT Pro.  The track appeared and worked fine.  I did a simple save and I saw the file info change the Mod time but no size change the file size remained at 76.13GB.  I took that file to a separate computer, my MBP laptop and it would not open sighting it need the caption file.  This was also reflected in the resources tab as was suggested in this thread.  The simple save yielded a file that listed the main file and the caption file as resources.  Without the caption file on my laptop the file was a no go.  From this I'm pretty convinced that a Save As is the only way to go.


---In avid-l2@yahoogroups.com, <bigfish@...> wrote :

So from all I'm hearing now when it comes to Text Tracks, which Closed Caption and the Time Code Burn In that QT Change creates are, they will be properly saved in a destructive manner to the original file and do not require a Save As. 

I know for a fact the time code track QT change adds is saved into the original file.  Does that mean that the time code track is considered as a "Text Track" in QT lingo or is it some category onto itself?


---In avid-l2@yahoogroups.com, <bogdan_grigorescu@...> wrote :

I checked my notes and re-tested the caption track insert procedure and Bouke is right: it can be done both as destructive(Save) or non-destructive(SaveAs).
I'm guessing my recollection of having to re-save the file is from the other type of tracks:video and/or audio.

BG


From: "bigfish@... [Avid-L2]" <Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com>
To: Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, July 13, 2015 10:01 AM
Subject: Re: [Avid-L2] Closed Captioning Track in QT .mov Extracting and Reinserting?

 
By "nope" I assume that means audio and video tracks are different because they are not "Text" tracks.  You have told me before that the time code burn in offered in QT Change is in reality at Text track.  So is the Closed Captioning Track a text track?  I'm  assuming it is because it behaves just like the time code burn in from QT change.  If this is the case then I followed your cmd J etc,,, steps exactly when I made my file and dis a simple save.  That should be good but this process wouldn't work for audio and video track insertion.


---In Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com, <bouke@...> wrote :


Nope, but do believe me,if you use QTchange, the file gets saved. The definition of saving is that you keep the changes.
(See the file mod time)
 
A QT text track is simply text. Try the following:
Open your captioned QT in QT pro.
Do an Export to Text.
Open the text with Notepad or alike, and you'll see what it is made of.
You can freely copy this around, and copy this into another QT movie.
(Use 'add to movie' )
 
Easier is to open your original, CMD J, select the text track and do an extract.
A new player opens with your captions.
Do a Select All, Copy, open your new QT, do an 'add to movie', then save.
(Or save As if you like, but that's not needed)
 
This is all there is to it.
 
Bouke
 
VideoToolShed
van Oldenbarneveltstraat 33
6512 AS  NIJMEGEN, the Netherlands
+31 24 3553311
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, July 13, 2015 10:19 AM
Subject: Re: [Avid-L2] Closed Captioning Track in QT .mov Extracting and Reinserting?

 
I use QT Change all the time to add a time code track and that doesn't require me to do a Save As to make it a self contained file so I get what you are saying.  Is adding a Closed Captioning Track by extracting it from one file and then adding it to the captionless  file and then just doing a save, not a Save As to a new file just as self contained as when I add Time Code in QT change?  If so then I think the file I made is self contained. 

A few weeks back when I was troubleshooting the file issues the network was having and I was taking the QT ref of audio into QT Pro with 12 tracks and doing a save as to get a self contained QT of the audio.  I then took a ProResHQ file of just the video and added that to the audio.  At that point I don't remember if I did a Save As or just a Save but I did end up with a single file with 12 mono audio stems that seemed to work as a self contained file.  I don't recall looking at the file sizes before and after this process.  I would think that would indicate that the data had been added into a single file but I don't know for sure.

So the bottom line is are there things about Closed Caption tracks and the time code tracks, like QT change adds, that allow immediately adding to the existing file in a destructive manner with just a save?  And do audio and video tracks act the same way when inserted into a file and just saved is that also a destructive save so the resulting file is self contained? 


---In Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com, <bouke@...> wrote :


I don't get it.
Altering a file and not saving is NOT altering the file.
There is however a difference between making a new copy and doing a destructive edit to a file.
So, it's a destructive operation, effectively altering the original file.
(Like QTchange does.)
 
There is no magic in QT caption files. You can copy/paste them from one file to another, and do a 'save' .
QT pro will do the destructive edit for you, and you can repeat that over and over again, without too much danger.
 
Bouke
 
VideoToolShed
van Oldenbarneveltstraat 33
6512 AS  NIJMEGEN, the Netherlands
+31 24 3553311
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, July 13, 2015 7:44 AM
Subject: Re: [Avid-L2] Closed Captioning Track in QT .mov Extracting and Reinserting?

 
'Perhaps that software has some magic code that doesn't require a resave?'

It does - that's why it costs 6K

BG


From: "bigfish@... [Avid-L2]" <Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com>
To: Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, July 12, 2015 10:38 PM
Subject: Re: [Avid-L2] Closed Captioning Track in QT .mov Extracting and Reinserting?

 
So it just so happened that the file I extracted the closed captioning from lives on the shuttle drive we tested on a different computer and I guess that's why it worked on another station.  Very subtle but I get it.  I think what I could have done was insert the captioning to my QT Ref file exported from Avid.  Then when I did that "Save As" everything including the Closed Captioning Track would be baked into the resulting self contained file.

I've been told they just insert the captioning to our existing file using mac caption.  Perhaps that software has some magic code that doesn't require a resave?


---In avid-l2@yahoogroups.com, <bogdan_grigorescu@...> wrote :

you definitely need to re-save as self contained movie. If you don't and the source is not available, no captions for you. Works exactly as QT Ref.
you can check quickly by removing the original, rejected file, from the shuttle.

BG


From: "bigfish@... [Avid-L2]" <Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com>
To: Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, July 12, 2015 9:49 PM
Subject: Re: [Avid-L2] Closed Captioning Track in QT .mov Extracting and Reinserting?

 
Very good point.  I hadn't thought of that.  The file did open on a completely different computer from the shuttle drive and displayed proper captioning data and this was a pc computer not a mac like I did the original inserting of the caption file.  From that I don't think it behaves like a QT Ref in this case.  I am however going to let the facility know to check the captioning before that upload the file.  I will defer to their engineers but I will be asking very specifically why this file is not okay if they reject it.  I don't want to paint a bad picture but quite often I have seen dub houses suggest and preform unnecessary work using expensive equipment etc...  I'm like to think there not just trying to make extra profit but having seen so much of this it would seem to imply sometimes their motives are questionable.  I do understand the need to stay in business but not the "Stick it to the client whenever possible approach."






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