This IS the Avid L2: Re: [Avid-L2] Nightmare Time Code coincidence point on network delivery?

Wednesday, May 11, 2016

Re: [Avid-L2] Nightmare Time Code coincidence point on network delivery?

I don't get it.

What start TC do you set, and how many frames are there before program start?

(or, what is your timeline start in 23.976?)

Bouke

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----- Original Message -----

From: bigfish@pacbell.net [Avid-L2]

To: Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2016 12:25 AM

Subject: Re: [Avid-L2] Nightmare Time Code coincidence point on network delivery?

The tripping point is that when you start the sequence before 59;00;00 24 frame code then when in the sequence when you display Avid's TC1 the 24 frame sequence code and also Avid's 29.97 DF code the program start will not be 1;00;00;00 on the 30 frame code but will display 1;00;00;02. So now when you try to zero out the act times everything is off by 2 frames. Sure we can work around that but it creates a myriad of gotchas along the way. I'm battling other issues where when using Adobe Media Encoder to add pulldown and then using QT Change to convert the NDF time code to drop frame the first frame of program shows a time code of 00;59;59;29 in QTPro7 while when I bring the same file into Avid ama, Premiere or Resolve the first frame of program is 1;00;00;00 like it should be. Now I know the QTPro7 is not the best place to check metadata but I'm also being told by the network that in their system the first frame also shows at 00;59;59;29. I have not had this issue before using AME to add pulldown but I'm wondering if this is a byproduct of the XDCam50 long gop files. Usually we deliver DNX-175X and or DNX 220X. All our 23.976 series so far have been delivered as 23.976 files and the network deals with the conversion.

So I'm battling to not have to jump through mixdown hoops and go into a 59.94I project etc... There is a lot of benefit to being able to outboard process in AME while I continue working in Avid.

To me the inconvenience of having to start at 58:30;00 is just plain stupid given nobody in the file based world needs a minute of bars to set up their tape machine. This is just a BS legacy spec. Now if someone can tell me that there is some reason in a network ingest system to have the file start at 58;30;00 over 58;59;28 which is what I normally do I'd like to know what the reason is. I understand their are preset profiles for audio track assignments but the actual start of the time code seems like it wouldn't be a parameter of an ingest profile that would matter. The only thing I can think of is if they are some how making proxies with TC burn in and they are manually setting the tc burn in time as opposed to slaving to the files time code. That seems far fetched to me but it's the only thing I can think of for mandating the file starting that early. I'd appreciate if anyone with knowledge of the ingest server world could enlighten me why I have to jump through hoops for this.

---In avid-l2@yahoogroups.com, <cutandcover@...> wrote :

What's wrong with 58;30;00? Start bars & tone there, come out at 59;30;00, and start your program at 1;00;00;00. You can see all that if you're looking at 30 DFTC in your time code display. Once you're cutting in 23.976p, you can have a separate TC display showing you what it would be at DFTC, so that's what you use to line up.

I feel like this *must* not be the tripping point for you here, so I'm likely misunderstanding the question, but putting a minute of bars at the head and still landing the program in the right place should work out OK.

On Tue, May 10, 2016 at 5:13 PM, John Moore bigfish@... [Avid-L2] <Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

At my main gig we have adopted the 23.976 workflow for all our series after all the complaints of random cadence when we work in 59.94i with our 23.976 material. For most of our work we are able to deliver a 23.976 file. Now a new series on a different network is requiring XDCam50 422 .mov with 16 channels of audio. Their specs request the file to start at 58;30;00 and have a minute of bars. This creates a problem of the program start at 1:00:00:00 no coinciding with the Avid 29.97DF TC display. Traditionally I start my sequences at 59:00:00 24F TC to avoid this issue but the wienies at this network are insisting on a minute of bars. Now if I was setting up a Quad or 1 inch machine a minute of bars is good to have but on a file that's just BS in my book.

We were thinking of just making a 23.976 file and sending it to our Dub house who can convert to 59.94i but then there is the potential of the 2 frame offset because the file starts at 58:30:00. We've been working successfully with 59:00:00 sequence starts for so long I just don't understand this networks insistence on a minute of bars which makes it virtually impossible to easily zero out act times. What are others doing in these situations. This is such a ridiculous time suck to deliver to people who clearly don't get what happens in a 23.976 project. I can't imagine any network ingest system profile for files that would absolutely require a start time of 58;30;00. Can someone enlighten me on why this would be so necessary.

John Moore Barking Trout Productions Studio City, CA bigfish@...

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