Here is the old thread about audio summing which I believe is the behavior being experienced in the current thread.
---In avid-l2@yahoogroups.com, <bigfish@...> wrote :
Having some issues with audio mixdowns today I sat down with our protools mixer and I tried to demonstrate what I had mentioned in my previous thread. Today I tried my tone test making audio mixdowns of two tracks of -20 tone in both mono and stereo. Todays test yielded both mixdowns at -14 so something seems to have changed back to the way things use to work.
From my previous thread I found another difference on my SNDX 5.5.4 mc system. From the original thread I was able to do an audio mixdown when in direct mode, but today I got an error message trying to do an audio mixdown when in direct. I was prompted I needed to be in stereo to do an audio mixdown. Kinda like when exporting QT's from Avid. That seems like different behavior and may be tied to the different summing matrix I experienced today. I don't recall what Avid version I was on for the original thread but I bet it was an earlier 5.5.x version or maybe 5.0.x. Oh well just another change back to the way it was before as far as I can tell. I'll have to double check the summing behavior of Ver. 6, 6.5 and 7 to see what's up there.
---In Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com, <bigfish@...> wrote :
From my previous thread I found another difference on my SNDX 5.5.4 mc system. From the original thread I was able to do an audio mixdown when in direct mode, but today I got an error message trying to do an audio mixdown when in direct. I was prompted I needed to be in stereo to do an audio mixdown. Kinda like when exporting QT's from Avid. That seems like different behavior and may be tied to the different summing matrix I experienced today. I don't recall what Avid version I was on for the original thread but I bet it was an earlier 5.5.x version or maybe 5.0.x. Oh well just another change back to the way it was before as far as I can tell. I'll have to double check the summing behavior of Ver. 6, 6.5 and 7 to see what's up there.
---In Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com, <bigfish@...> wrote :
I and others have posted about the change in audio mixdown summing behavior that happened sometime around V5 or 5.5. If I have tone at -20 db on the avid audio meter and I'm in mono output mode and I mixdown a single track of tone to another track the resulting track playback at +20db like it always had. If I do the same with the output set to stereo or direct the resulting track plays back at -23db. Now if I take two mono tone tracks and mix them down to a single track in mono I get -14db like I have always experience. Again in stereo or direct I get -17db. This is all very symmetrical behavior.
Now if I take a single track of -20db tone and export I have two things effecting the summing. The output setting as previously mentioned talking about mixdowns and the audio tab in the options for the QT export. The permutations of interaction are very confusing to keep track of. It the QT export option is set to direct things play nicely and maintain the -20db level on the exports. With the QT export option tab set to stereo or mono then the same kind of summing behavior happens. For example a single track of -20db tone with the output set to mono and the QT export option tab set to stereo results in a QT audio .mov that has two tracks of audio at -23db. Again this is similar to the other summing results but I am confused. If I take the resulting audio QT and import it back into Avid I get the two tracks of -23db. If I mono those tracks the resulting output is -17db not -20db. That seems to me to be 3db hotter than it should be if the
idea behind the summing is to maintain the same level. On my behringer mixer if I send it tone and pan to left channel and adjust for 0db for the left output. If I then pan to the right I get 0db Right. If I pan in the middle both tracks are -6db. -6db seem to be the correct attenuation to maintain the same volume whether the signal is coming our of just left, just right or in the middle. Why has Avid chosen an attenuation on the sum of -3db in the various modes. It seems to defeat the purpose. What am I missing here. It becomes incredibly confusing when I try to mult various tracks for premixed stems like they do in Protools. If I'm not looking at tone I don't see how I can catch these potential summing issues. Protools bussing is how the mixers create the stems right? As I try to mimic that with audio mixdowns I find myself not being able to trust what I use to have no issue with. Is this new audio behavior somehow beneficial
in a way I'm just not grasping? Jimmy D I'm clicking my audio heals together but I just can't get home. ;-(
John Moore
Barking Trout Productions
Studio City, CA
bigfish@...
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Now if I take a single track of -20db tone and export I have two things effecting the summing. The output setting as previously mentioned talking about mixdowns and the audio tab in the options for the QT export. The permutations of interaction are very confusing to keep track of. It the QT export option is set to direct things play nicely and maintain the -20db level on the exports. With the QT export option tab set to stereo or mono then the same kind of summing behavior happens. For example a single track of -20db tone with the output set to mono and the QT export option tab set to stereo results in a QT audio .mov that has two tracks of audio at -23db. Again this is similar to the other summing results but I am confused. If I take the resulting audio QT and import it back into Avid I get the two tracks of -23db. If I mono those tracks the resulting output is -17db not -20db. That seems to me to be 3db hotter than it should be if the
idea behind the summing is to maintain the same level. On my behringer mixer if I send it tone and pan to left channel and adjust for 0db for the left output. If I then pan to the right I get 0db Right. If I pan in the middle both tracks are -6db. -6db seem to be the correct attenuation to maintain the same volume whether the signal is coming our of just left, just right or in the middle. Why has Avid chosen an attenuation on the sum of -3db in the various modes. It seems to defeat the purpose. What am I missing here. It becomes incredibly confusing when I try to mult various tracks for premixed stems like they do in Protools. If I'm not looking at tone I don't see how I can catch these potential summing issues. Protools bussing is how the mixers create the stems right? As I try to mimic that with audio mixdowns I find myself not being able to trust what I use to have no issue with. Is this new audio behavior somehow beneficial
in a way I'm just not grasping? Jimmy D I'm clicking my audio heals together but I just can't get home. ;-(
John Moore
Barking Trout Productions
Studio City, CA
bigfish@...
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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