I can't for sure say the network uses the Closed Caption Track. What I know is the facility that does QC and uploads the file to the network uses MacCaption to insert Closed Captioning into the file. I know for a fact that they are "inserting the CC into the file because in our initial testing if the mad a new file with captioning there were issues at the network during the XCode proxy creation in their Amberfin system.
I don't know MacCaption but what I've learned from this is it can "insert" captioning or bake out a new file with captioning. I do not know the specifics of the facility workflow for this and if is completely done in MacCaption or if that is just one of the tools they use.
As stated I just know they "insert" CC so I figured I was doing the same thing on my end with QT Pro 7. Given it's an insert I don't think there is any part of the video that gets embedded CC. I don't know if a QT file supports the Hanc anc Vanc metadata that I typically associate with 708 HD captions on tape.
I don't know what the mechanism at the network is for integrating the CC data. I suppose it is possible the Closed Captioning track in the QT file is just for reference and that they also get he separate caption files that we got from the captioning service and use those for the final broadcast transmission.
Does anybody know what hardware/software would take the Closed Caption Track in a QT .mov and turn it into a transmitable CC signal. That would have to take the QT metadata and insert it into the Hanc/Vanc 708 caption format for broadcast.
I usually do as you say and send a tape or file and the Post Super sends the network a corresponding caption file. The network of late usually integrates that themselves but not this time and not this network.
The network said they would take a new test file to check.
---In avid-l2@yahoogroups.com, <bouke@...> wrote :
Bouke
Op 14 jul. 2015 om 19:57 heeft bigfish@... [Avid-L2] <Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com> het volgende geschreven:
Now after all the hoops the facility that did the original caption is not comfortable with what I've done because they can't test it on their end to assure it will pass Network QC. I do understand that they figured out the recipe after a couple failed attempts, which is surprising given it's a service they have provided to this network before so I don't see why they failed in the first place, but that's a different issue. Here was the facility response:
We will proceed with the encode and upload today. Unfortunately, our machine room is advising against using the file that has been captioned (moving captions to new file) on your end as we cannot verify if this will cause any errors or fails with CC upon QC at A&E. Since everything has worked well with the encoding on our end we will go with what's worked, hope you understand.
Thank you!
Now I do understand not wanting to deviate from what has worked but to state we can't verify if the file will work seems like a cop out. If your job is to insert the captioning properly you should know how it will be received on the other end. I know there a factors beyond the facilities control but I don't like that because they don't have the expertise to QC their own work in house or my work they have to go with what worked for them in the past. That's not the way to run things IMHO. Perhaps if they had said something like, "Hey we really aren't comfortable with not doing it the same we have been so let's do it the regular way this time but we will upload your file to the network for evaluation on their end so in the future we will know if this is an acceptable workflow. That's being part of the solution in my opinion.
---In avid-l2@yahoogroups.com, <bigfish@...> wrote :So from all I'm hearing now when it comes to Text Tracks, which Closed Caption and the Time Code Burn In that QT Change creates are, they will be properly saved in a destructive manner to the original file and do not require a Save As.
I know for a fact the time code track QT change adds is saved into the original file. Does that mean that the time code track is considered as a "Text Track" in QT lingo or is it some category onto itself?
---In avid-l2@yahoogroups.com, <bogdan_grigorescu@...> wrote :I checked my notes and re-tested the caption track insert procedure and Bouke is right: it can be done both as destructive(Save) or non-destructive(SaveAs).I'm guessing my recollection of having to re-save the file is from the other type of tracks:video and/or audio.BG
From: "bigfish@... [Avid-L2]" <Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com>
To: Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, July 13, 2015 10:01 AM
Subject: Re: [Avid-L2] Closed Captioning Track in QT .mov Extracting and Reinserting?
By "nope" I assume that means audio and video tracks are different because they are not "Text" tracks. You have told me before that the time code burn in offered in QT Change is in reality at Text track. So is the Closed Captioning Track a text track? I'm assuming it is because it behaves just like the time code burn in from QT change. If this is the case then I followed your cmd J etc,,, steps exactly when I made my file and dis a simple save. That should be good but this process wouldn't work for audio and video track insertion.
---In Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com, <bouke@...> wrote :Nope, but do believe me,if you use QTchange, the file gets saved. The definition of saving is that you keep the changes.(See the file mod time)A QT text track is simply text. Try the following:Open your captioned QT in QT pro.Do an Export to Text.Open the text with Notepad or alike, and you'll see what it is made of.You can freely copy this around, and copy this into another QT movie.(Use 'add to movie' )Easier is to open your original, CMD J, select the text track and do an extract.A new player opens with your captions.Do a Select All, Copy, open your new QT, do an 'add to movie', then save.(Or save As if you like, but that's not needed)This is all there is to it.BoukeVideoToolShed
van Oldenbarneveltstraat 33
6512 AS NIJMEGEN, the Netherlands
+31 24 3553311----- Original Message -----From: bigfish@... [Avid-L2]Sent: Monday, July 13, 2015 10:19 AMSubject: Re: [Avid-L2] Closed Captioning Track in QT .mov Extracting and Reinserting?I use QT Change all the time to add a time code track and that doesn't require me to do a Save As to make it a self contained file so I get what you are saying. Is adding a Closed Captioning Track by extracting it from one file and then adding it to the captionless file and then just doing a save, not a Save As to a new file just as self contained as when I add Time Code in QT change? If so then I think the file I made is self contained.
A few weeks back when I was troubleshooting the file issues the network was having and I was taking the QT ref of audio into QT Pro with 12 tracks and doing a save as to get a self contained QT of the audio. I then took a ProResHQ file of just the video and added that to the audio. At that point I don't remember if I did a Save As or just a Save but I did end up with a single file with 12 mono audio stems that seemed to work as a self contained file. I don't recall looking at the file sizes before and after this process. I would think that would indicate that the data had been added into a single file but I don't know for sure.
So the bottom line is are there things about Closed Caption tracks and the time code tracks, like QT change adds, that allow immediately adding to the existing file in a destructive manner with just a save? And do audio and video tracks act the same way when inserted into a file and just saved is that also a destructive save so the resulting file is self contained?
---In Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com, <bouke@...> wrote :I don't get it.Altering a file and not saving is NOT altering the file.There is however a difference between making a new copy and doing a destructive edit to a file.So, it's a destructive operation, effectively altering the original file.(Like QTchange does.)There is no magic in QT caption files. You can copy/paste them from one file to another, and do a 'save' .QT pro will do the destructive edit for you, and you can repeat that over and over again, without too much danger.BoukeVideoToolShed
van Oldenbarneveltstraat 33
6512 AS NIJMEGEN, the Netherlands
+31 24 3553311----- Original Message -----Sent: Monday, July 13, 2015 7:44 AMSubject: Re: [Avid-L2] Closed Captioning Track in QT .mov Extracting and Reinserting?'Perhaps that software has some magic code that doesn't require a resave?'It does - that's why it costs 6KBG
From: "bigfish@... [Avid-L2]" <Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com>
To: Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, July 12, 2015 10:38 PM
Subject: Re: [Avid-L2] Closed Captioning Track in QT .mov Extracting and Reinserting?So it just so happened that the file I extracted the closed captioning from lives on the shuttle drive we tested on a different computer and I guess that's why it worked on another station. Very subtle but I get it. I think what I could have done was insert the captioning to my QT Ref file exported from Avid. Then when I did that "Save As" everything including the Closed Captioning Track would be baked into the resulting self contained file.
I've been told they just insert the captioning to our existing file using mac caption. Perhaps that software has some magic code that doesn't require a resave?
---In avid-l2@yahoogroups.com, <bogdan_grigorescu@...> wrote :you definitely need to re-save as self contained movie. If you don't and the source is not available, no captions for you. Works exactly as QT Ref.you can check quickly by removing the original, rejected file, from the shuttle.BG
Posted by: bigfish@pacbell.net
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