This IS the Avid L2: Re: [Avid-L2] DVC Pro HD Tape vs. Sony F-3 tapeless Quality/Workflow?

Wednesday, April 16, 2014

Re: [Avid-L2] DVC Pro HD Tape vs. Sony F-3 tapeless Quality/Workflow?

Don't forget that DVCProHD is 1280x1080. In my experience, XDCAM 1920x1080 at 35 Mbps is better quality than DVCProHD, not by a lot, but still. Lower bit rate but superior compression, as you guessed. MC plays with both formats fairly easily, and the added benefit is that the XDCAM will be less heavy storage-wise.

With outboard recorders, the whole thing jumps exponentially in potential pitfalls and aggravation. IMHO, the sacrifice of bit depth or apparent quality is an easy one to make, in favor of a dead easy workflow and lightweight storage requirements. I'd only really consider outboard if there's a lot of compositing work or heavy color grading to be done, as that's where you'll reap the benefits of having shot I-frame at 4:2:2 or better.

The F3 can shoot XDCAM EX 35 Mbps to SxS cards. These are as good or better than XDCAM discs. Might be a bit more expensive though. Helps to have a robust multiple copy backup system for the archive, so you don't have to burn through hundreds of cards. I don't know the equivalent XDCAM disc camera - maybe the PMW/PDW series?

Reading what you wrote about what you already have, it barely makes sense to move to a new workflow with new equipment for a modest improvement in quality. However, an hour of XDCAM 35Mbps probably only takes ~20 minutes to AMA link/consolidate, faster if you have USB3. That could be a huge time saver compared to tape. That's not counting the time you *should* take to do your multiple destination card copy first, but those tasks can be done on different systems with different cards, so they could easily be done concurrently.

On Wed, Apr 16, 2014 at 10:39 PM, John Moore <bigfish@pacbell.net> wrote:

So it's time for the semi annual discussion about going completely tapeless at a place I work. I've heard they are considering Sony F-3's. These are reality shows with a ton of 24/7 footage for 3 weeks on 9 plus cameras. I see in the manual that the Sony shooting to cards is 4:2:0 and the Panny DVC ProHD is 4:2:2. With outboard recorders the Sony's can be 4:2:2 or even 4:4:4 over dual link. I see the F-3 data rate is 25mbs or 35 mbs while DVC Pro tape can go up to 100mbs. I've read here that these data rates aren't always a proper comparison based on more sophisticated compression schemes etc... Can anybody give me some workflow comparisons and quality comparisons. It always seems to come down to the savings in production they believe will happen but the back end of post has more hours and costs associated with the tapeless approach. Given we already own the tape decks I always disagree with a jump to completely tapeless, but perhaps I'm just an F'ing idiot about this. Please set me straight.

On our last production the cost to archive to LTO just 3 surveillance cameras shot to file was in th $8,000 range and we own an LTO drive/recorder already. Now that's just 3 feeds so I don't see how if all the cameras were files we'd be saving money in the long run given the need to send the source material to the network when all is said and done. I personally like the built in archive media that XDCam disks provide. Forgive my ignorance but doesn't Sony offer cameras with the sensor/look of the F3 that record to XDCam disks? Any suggestions and insights would be appreciated.

John Moore
Barking Trout Productions
Studio City, CA
bigfish@pacbell.net