This IS the Avid L2: Re: [Avid-L2] Re: Wow Size does matter in offline even at DNX 45

Tuesday, May 7, 2013

Re: [Avid-L2] Re: Wow Size does matter in offline even at DNX 45

And I complain about phantom footage on tvcs!

But then I keep getting shots at 1000fps, I keep telling them to shout action then roll but I still get 11 minute clips... Roll camera - speed- action - at 1000fps is a lot of wasted disks... Can't wait till I start getting 4k at 2000fps. In stereo.

But same workflow. Prores proxies for offline, conform raw files in davinci grade and send Dpx to smoke.

Best regards

Mike

On 8 May, 2013, at 4:21 AM, namyrb <namyrb@gmail.com> wrote:

> I've collaborated on about 20 reality shows in the last year and a half and
> everything has been SD 15:1, 10:1, etc. in both tape based and tapeless
> workflows. Red usually gets transcoded to DNxHD 36 so that producers don't
> ask where their money went. Besides pilots, I don't see why any reality
> show would even consider cutting in HD proxies. It's even a battle working
> in SD proxies on 2 Isis' and a Unity with over 200TB of combined storage.
>
>
> On Tue, May 7, 2013 at 2:08 PM, johnrobmoore <bigfish@pacbell.net> wrote:
>
>> **
>>
>>
>> You seem to have hit the nail on the head with my initial concern when I
>> saw just how big the offline media was. For the 9 plus cam multicamera
>> reality shows I do storage on the unity would be taken up very quickly.
>> While NAS may be relatively cheap the need to have the offline media on the
>> unity/isis seems to really point to the more traditional SD resolutions
>> like 10:1 which I see used a lot.
>>
>>
>> --- In Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com, "Dom Q. Silverio" <domqsilverio@...>
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> AMA relink is usually a pain only for the assistant offline and online
>>> editors. Often, it is something you can resolve with an extra day or two
>> of
>>> conform. Properly planned, it is of minimal cost.
>>>
>>> Long term shared storage is much more expensive.
>>>
>>> 15:1s starts around 2 GB per hour. XDCAM EX is 20 GB per hour. We are not
>>> even discussing XDCAM HD, AVC-I, DNXHD or any of the common larger HD
>>> formats.
>>>
>>>
>>> That is 10 times more storage for the entire life of the show. Not to
>>> mention render and overall performance is worse with these heavily
>>> compressed HD codecs.
>>>
>>> Multicam is also an issue. Not only with storage and performance, but the
>>> bandwidth you require from your server and infrastructure.
>>>
>>>
>>> No matter what shared storage you buy like ISIS, EditShare, or
>> Terrablock,
>>> expanding these storages are expensive. Even with renting, where you
>>> mitigate a lot of the long-term risks, it is still quite a burden on the
>>> show's budget.
>>>
>>> It really depends on so many factors if you are going native/hi-res or
>>> offline/online workflow. But for long form collaborative environment
>>> offline/online is generally a better workflow IMHO.
>>>
>>>
>>> Dom Q. Silverio
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, May 7, 2013 at 12:49 PM, Rupert Watson <rupert@...> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Andi
>>>>
>>>> I recognize the workflow but I personally think that more time and
>> money
>>>> has been lost pursuing this sort of cockamamie workflow, and all the
>>>> relinking that goes with it, than has been saved by not buying big
>>>> enough work-in-progress storage to allow editing with the native media
>>>> files...
>>>>
>>>> Rupert Watson
>>>> +44 7787 554 801
>>>> www.root6.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com] On
>> Behalf
>>>> Of Andi Meek
>>>> Sent: 07 May 2013 11:43
>>>> To: Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com
>>>> Subject: RE: [Avid-L2] Re: Wow Size does matter in offline even at DNX
>>>> 45
>>>>
>>>> The large productions I work on all transcode down to 15:1s, 20:1 or
>>>> 10:1 (PAL resolutions). A lot of the rushes are shot on XDCAM or other
>>>> native formats so that's always kept native for online, anything else
>>>> gets DNxHD185. The rushes are copied to a NAS, copied to an archive,
>>>> AMA linked from the NAS in Avid and then transcoded down on to ISIS
>>>> storage for offline editing. None of the shows I work on (a lot of
>>>> reality tv like The Apprentice etc.) use DNX resolutions for offline,
>>>> it's all SD still. Finally for conforming, the ISIS is unmounted, the
>>>> AMA bins are reopened from the NAS and the sequence is relinked to the
>>>> high res media and consolidated on to a new online ISIS workspace. Job
>>>> done! (Although it's never that easy...)
>>>>
>>>> Andi
>>>>
>>>> To: Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com
>>>> From: yardley.david@...
>>
>>>> Date: Tue, 7 May 2013 10:30:42 +0000
>>>> Subject: [Avid-L2] Re: Wow Size does matter in offline even at DNX 45
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>>
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> John,
>>>>
>>>> At $75/Tb surely it is a no-brainer.
>>>>
>>>> Avoid all that relinking mucking about.
>>>>
>>>> I cannot resist saying that my first Avid storage was $4,000,000/Tb
>>>>
>>>> Yay I had 1.5Gb!
>>>>
>>>> David
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --- In Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com, John Moore <bigfish@> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> This is just an observation I had tonight on a project we've been
>>>> working on at home. This was the test run on ama in house for me. I
>>>> did the initial transcode to DNX 220 then transcoded that to DNX 45 for
>>>> offline. I was surprised to see that the offline media for this half
>>>> hour show was 341 GB and the online res was about 1.4TB. I know there
>>>> are size calculators out there but I hadn't realize how much space an
>>>> entire project takes at DNX 45. My work is mainly online so I've
>>>> forgotten just how fast things add up in the offline world. It makes me
>>>> rethink how I would manage a large reality production. Trying to keep
>>>> all the original DNX 220 transcodes seems a lot less viable on a large
>>>> scale than I had thought. I know storage is relatively cheap but even
>>>> so it would get burned up pretty quickly the way I was approaching the
>>>> in house show.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> I'm curious how others working on larger scale projects are going
>>>> about the ama workflows. What I was hoping to avoid by initially
>>>> transcoding to the online resolution seems like it wouldn't be
>>>> sustainable on the typical Reality shows I work on.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> John Moore
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Barking Trout Productions
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Studio City, CA
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> bigfish@
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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>>>>
>>>>
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>
>
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