Hooray Shirley.
Why the invectives? I don't see anything political about the topic. From what I can tell it's a very pertinent topic. A lot of the work available out there is offered by digital sweatshops. The working conditions can be abusive. I'm lucky not to be working for one of them, but I hear about them from my friends who are. Anna was simply asking some questions about issues that will eventually affect all of us.
Now all of a sudden this has turned into group therapy and none of us are qualified therapists.
Except maybe Terry Curren. Job, Oliver and Steve Hullfish. ;-) (
And thanks Jeff, you absolutely right. It's perfectly possible to discuss this in a civil way and it's VERY relevant to how we make a living. Anybody who doesn't like the topic, please read the other posts. I added OT to this one.
Tony
--- In Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com, Shirley Gutierrez <guanacaa@...> wrote:
>
> Whoa! Did that simple post really merit all this? Why?
>
>
> Dude, I respectfully suggest that you go out and have a little weekend and forget all about this. At this point we can be guaranteed that nothing useful can happen with this thread anyway. And I don't think the problem is politics - it's personalities.
>
>
> I'm out.
>
>
> Shirley
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jay Mahavier <jay_mahavier@...>
> To: Avid-L2 <Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Sun, Aug 26, 2012 11:10 am
> Subject: Re: [Avid-L2] Editors, AE's picket, win union contract, benefits
>
>
> No, you didn't ask an innocent question, and saying you did doesn't make it one.
> I'm just saying. You were laying bait for an argument. Hey, I'm just saying.
> And I took the effort to do research for you and gave you leads on dozens of
> more appropriate venues to discuss political and union issues. Lists that are
> dedicated to those topics.
>
> You reply by making passive accusations that I'm somehow personally attacking
> you. Accusing me of "venting" and not providing "constructive criticism". And
> telling me to slow my roll. It's obvious that you are talented at being passive
> aggressive and at portraying yourself as a victim instead of making sound
> arguments to support your position. I'm just saying.
>
> Of course I'm sure I could never do enough to satisfy your innocent inquiry.
> I'm just saying. Even if I were to go through the extra effort of finding a
> single totally awesome extra special best list for discussing politics. I'm
> guessing that you would dismiss it by saying that you think the Avid-L is
> better. And then you would probably accuse me of being totally irate because I
> actually did make the effort to find you a better place to discuss politics.
> I'm just saying.
>
> And the article that was linked to that started this thread is total crap. It's
> one-sided and just poor journalism. They apparently didn't even try to contact
> Blueprint to get a statement from them. And I can easily see how it would be
> offensive to the many members on this list who are facility owners and managers.
> And who probably often hire non-union workers. It wasn't posted as humor, or as
> an example of poor writing. It was posted to be biased. As soon as I noticed
> the post it seemed like a dickish thing to post to this list. And if you
> haven't noticed I'm somewhat of a dick too. So I should know dickish when I see
> it. I'm just saying.
>
> But hey, maybe instead of making veiled accusation of others you could provide
> some constructive criticism. I'm just saying. Maybe you could actually define
> why the Avid-L is a better place to talk about union shop stuff than any other
> list. Maybe you could define what would satisfy your need to be a better and
> more robust venue for discussing political and labor issues. I'm just saying.
>
> But now for MY innocent question. If you didn't want me to answer you then why
> did you ask me the question in the first place? Especially if you already knew
> that you would not be satisfied with any response I gave you? I'm just saying.
>
> Thank you, (I'm just saying)
> Jay (I'm just saying) Mahavier
>
> P.S. - Now THAT was a bit of Sunday afternoon venting. And while you, and
> probably many others, don't see any humor in this, my wife certainly does. I"M
> JUST SAYING!!!!!!
>
> On Aug 26, 2012, at 3:00 AM, Anna Hovhannessian wrote:
>
> > Jay, slow your roll.
> >
> > I was just asking an innocent question. You suggested this topic be brought to
> another forum, I thought you would know of one specifically where it would be
> more appropriate.
> >
> > And though there are hundreds, I was hoping your direction would help weed out
> the good ones from the ok ones.
> >
> > Constructive criticism is always better than just plain venting.
> >
> > But if you don't have any, I guess I'll just have to take your venting, or
> ignore it.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Aug 25, 2012, at 11:50 PM, Jay Mahavier <jay_mahavier@...> wrote:
> >
> >> really, you can't find any other place to talk about politics or the union?
> Then you didn't even try.
> >>
> >> Since you are a member of this list you probably have access to all of the
> Yahoo Groups. I found a whole section on there devoted to the subject of
> Government and Politics. Under the Politics section there are 27647 groups. Try
> some of those.
> >>
> >> If you want to focus on union and labor issues a search for IATSE brings back
> 23 groups.
> >>
> >> A search for Labor Union brings back 454 groups.
> >>
> >> That was with a very minimal effort.
> >>
> >> Jay
> >>
> >> On Aug 25, 2012, at 4:48 PM, Anna Hovhannessian wrote:
> >>
> >>> Where else would you suggest?
> >>>
> >>> I don't know of any venue as robust and rich.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Aug 25, 2012, at 4:47 PM, Jay Mahavier <jay_mahavier@...>
> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Personally I'm not interested in getting into politics and union issues on
> this list. And I am a member of and support the 700. It's all worth talking
> about and discussing, but I believe it's best left somewhere else.
> >>>>
> >>>> Jay Mahavier
> >>>>
> >>>> On Aug 25, 2012, at 2:31 PM, Mark wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> "how pathetic is our aversion to the political sphere that our illustrious
> group can't politely
> >>>>> engage these issues without the threat of it descending into acrimony and
> >>>>> invective?"
> >>>>>
> >>>>> ... and away we go! Told ya!
> >>>>>
> >>>>> mark
> >>>>>
> >>>>> --- In Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com, David Dodson <davidadodson@> wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I agree with Anna. I come to the L-2 for the tech, but I stay for the
> community. And I like reading about the political wrangling that impacts our
> professional lives. And anyway, union issues don't seem like so much political
> issues as just a very real part of working the industry at this level. AND...
> how pathetic is our aversion to the political sphere that our illustrious group
> can't politely engage these issues without the threat of it descending into
> acrimony and invective?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> David
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> On Aug 25, 2012, at 12:11 PM, Anna Hovhannessian wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> I like it. And honestly we don't always stick to tech. It's part of
> being a community of editors.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> On Aug 25, 2012, at 2:56 PM, "Mark" <markraudonis@> wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Can we stick to the tech stuff and not go all political on this board?
> There's plenty of other
> >>>>>>>> venues for this discussion... don't need it here. Thanks.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> --- In Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com, "paul.hartel" <phartel@> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> http://www.deadline.com/2012/08/editors-settle-with-syfy-show-hot-set-after-walkout-halted-production-for-3-days/#more-324780
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> David Dodson
> >>>>>> davidadodson@
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> ------------------------------------
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Search the official Complete Avid-L archives at: http://archives.bengrosser.com/avid/
> >>>>> Yahoo! Groups Links
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> ------------------------------------
> >>>
> >>> Search the official Complete Avid-L archives at: http://archives.bengrosser.com/avid/
> >>> Yahoo! Groups Links
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > Search the official Complete Avid-L archives at: http://archives.bengrosser.com/avid/
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Search the official Complete Avid-L archives at: http://archives.bengrosser.com/avid/
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
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