OK that's interesting, so what you're saying is that it's better to shoot 23.97 or 24p then pitch audio and image up 4%? I've heard plenty about it being problematic pitching down (does this take the sampling rate down too low?) but nothing against pitching up. Thinking about it, all Hollywood movies coming to the UK must have a good workflow for this, it's done so often.
I need to find out whether the US variant of the camera shoots true 24p or 23.97.
The trouble is, we don't know where the film will go yet - it'll be entered into festivals for sure, but not just in Europe. However, I have direct contacts with a lot of development execs as my main profession is now as a screenwriter, not so much in production. So although we'll have an invited screening through my agent, we'll also be just sending out bluray and DVD copies to execs I know. That's why I need the most flexible workflow and, annoyingly I know, I can't tell you which is the most likely release format at this stage. It could either get picked up for theatrical release or straight to broadcast/DVD.
If it's a question of speeding up or slowing down 4% I'd rather speed up and make the film more pacey than slow down!
I do apologise though - I had no idea this was going to cause so much problems - I assumed there would be a fairly standard workflow! My bad!
On 18 Aug 2011, at 12:14, "Christopher Lowden" <christopher@fearlesstv.com> wrote:
>
>
> Bourke
> 2 years ago I directed a 30 min short shot at 25p avc100 intra. My goal was festivals who take either tape at 25 or dcp at 24. I mixed the sound in 5.1 at 25 then pitched it for the 24 dcp. It was a distaster. I had orchestral music and all the strings broke up on the pitch. It was bad on the tv but in a cinema, it was pathetic. I have never met a cinema sound engineer who has found a foul proof way of digitally pitching sound, particularly long notes without breaking up.
> In the end, I recorded the 5.1 files onto 1/4 analog tape and then did the pitch in analog back digital. The result was inifinetly better. The moral of the story is that the sound is even less flexible than the image.
>
> --- In Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com, "bouke" <bouke@...> wrote:
> >
> > No, the answer is not that simple!
> > You forget one thing.
> > Almost all work is done in a video surrounding with video equipment. And
> > that does not play well with 24.
> > It does with 23.976.
> > (hence Lucas shoots 23.976, and he's not after the DVD market!)
> >
> > Speeding up from 23.976 to 24 is not that difficult and has an unnoticable
> > pitch shift.
> > Getting true 24 material in a video surrounding and handle all the madness
> > has caused terrabytes worth of mailing list questions.
> >
> > Bouke
> >
> > VideoToolShed
> > van Oldenbarneveltstraat 33
> > 6512 AS NIJMEGEN
> > The Netherlands
> > +31 24 3553311
> > www.videotoolshed.com
> > For large files:
> > http://dropbox.yousendit.com/BoukeVahl998172
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Christopher Lowden" <christopher@...>
> > To: <Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2011 10:07 PM
> > Subject: [Avid-L2] Re: 24p/25p?
> >
> >
> > Concerning 24 versus 25, the answer is simple. It the primary exploitation
> > is cinema film then go 24. 24 is the standard both for film and dcp. If you
> > have a project that might be shown on a couple of short film festivals,
> > choose 25 as the primary exploitation will be the video world. Often, the
> > film distributor will demand a certain frame rate depending on the
> > exploitation strategy and distribution costs. Be very careful on the sound.
> > People are often obsessed by the video, but it is the sound that has often
> > caused me the most problems. Pitching sound even from 24 to 25 can be very
> > problematic.
> > Hope this helps.
> >
> > --- In Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com, "johnrobmoore" <bigfish@> wrote:
> > >
> > > So 24frames/sec divided by 50 cycles/sec = 24frames/50 cycles
> > > 24frames/50 cycles multiplied by 360 degrees/frame=172.8degrees/cycle.
> > >
> > > Now a cycle is an AC sine wave. So this is saying that at a shutter of
> > > 172.8 degrees my exposure time will maintain a constant relationship to
> > > the AC sine wave powering the lights. The AC sine wave is the voltage
> > > feeding the lights so the lights will have a constant voltage relative to
> > > the shutter opening which should maintain a constant light level during
> > > the exposure window. I feel like I might be missing something here.
> > >
> > > --- In Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com, "bouke" <bouke@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > and a good opportunity for math class 101
> > > > (much more appreciated on the FCP-L, but that's another story...)
> > > >
> > > > For 24 with 50 Hz light:
> > > > 24 fps / 50 hz * 360 (degrees) = 172.8
> > > > That makes for 23.976: 172.6272 (no idea if that's an option...)
> > > >
> > > > For shooting 24 in the US:
> > > > 24 fps / 60 hz * 360 (degrees) = 144 degrees
> > > >
> > > > But the bottom line, set your exposure time to a multiple of the light
> > > > frequency and you should be safe...
> > > > (and there is logic in that...)
> > > >
> > > > (disclaimer, i'm not a DOP, but just love to understand the way things
> > > > work...)
> > > >
> > > > Bouke
> > > >
> > > > VideoToolShed
> > > > van Oldenbarneveltstraat 33
> > > > 6512 AS NIJMEGEN
> > > > The Netherlands
> > > > +31 24 3553311
> > > > www.videotoolshed.com
> > > > For large files:
> > > > http://dropbox.yousendit.com/BoukeVahl998172
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "David Dodson" <davidadodson@>
> > > > To: <Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com>
> > > > Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2011 11:04 AM
> > > > Subject: Re: [Avid-L2] Re: 24p/25p?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Ahhhhhh... That's hot information! Thanks, Job!
> > > > >
> > > > > David
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On Aug 17, 2011, at 12:53 PM, Job ter Burg (L2B) wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >> Just asked a DoP buddy. Cameras have a shutter setting for 172.8
> > > > >> degrees,
> > > > >> which is used on 24fps film shoots, to compensate for practicals and
> > > > >> non-flicker-free lights. Effectively, the shutter speed then becomes
> > > > >> 1/48th rather than 1/24th, he said.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> On 17 aug 2011, at 08:02, David Dodson wrote:
> > > > >>
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > And if you have practicals on set? For example, we start shooting a
> > > > >> > feature next week here in Moscow. We're shooting RED cameras,
> > > > >> > probably
> > > > >> > at 24fps, and will have plenty of practical lights on set. So are
> > > > >> > we
> > > > >> > better off going 24fps, 23.976fps, or 25fps? And this is for
> > > > >> > theatrical
> > > > >> > distribution, both in 35mm and DCP.
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > David
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >
> > > > > David Dodson
> > > > > davidadodson@
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > ------------------------------------
> > > > >
> > > > > Search the offical complete Avid-L archives at:
> > > > > http://archives.bengrosser.com/avid/
> > > > >
> > > > > If you want to donate to Red Cross quake relief, you can do so through
> > > > > your cell phone. Text redcross to 90999 to make a $10 donation. It
> > > > > will be
> > > > > on your next cell bill.Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
If you want to donate to Red Cross quake relief, you can do so through your cell phone. Text redcross to 90999 to make a $10 donation. It will be on your next cell bill.
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