Actually, it has absolutely nothing to do with CRTs -- or "CRT days".
It has everything to do with the bandwidth necessary to incorporate color information into the subcarrier during the transition from B&W -- to Color in the US.
More importantly, the decisions surrounding the transition to 29.97 Color -- are still very much with us in the form of 23.976 and 59.94.
It's really a shame that the transition to HD is causing us to still deal with archaic backwards compatibility issues. And, for that matter -- progressive segmented frame.
--- In Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com, David Dodson <davidadodson@...> wrote:
>
>
> Does this apply to post work in video environments ON FLAT PANEL DISPLAYS? Or is this a remnant from CRT days?
>
> In other words, does 23.976/23.98 have any real benefit in a post environment that lives almost entirely on LCDs (and then 2K and 4K projectors during grading)?
>
> Because my DP is lobbying for 24fps on the grounds that 23.98 is really a holdover consideration related mostly to CRTs.
>
> (This project is going to be first and foremost 35mm and DCP theatrical release. Then after that all regular ancillary, including home video on DVD and Blu ray and of course TV broadcast and streaming services)
>
> David
>
>
> On Aug 18, 2011, at 12:13 AM, bouke wrote:
>
> > No, the answer is not that simple!
> > You forget one thing.
> > Almost all work is done in a video surrounding with video equipment. And
> > that does not play well with 24.
> > It does with 23.976.
> > (hence Lucas shoots 23.976, and he's not after the DVD market!)
> >
> > Speeding up from 23.976 to 24 is not that difficult and has an unnoticable
> > pitch shift.
> > Getting true 24 material in a video surrounding and handle all the madness
> > has caused terrabytes worth of mailing list questions.
> >
> > Bouke
> >
> > VideoToolShed
> > van Oldenbarneveltstraat 33
> > 6512 AS NIJMEGEN
> > The Netherlands
> > +31 24 3553311
> > www.videotoolshed.com
> > For large files:
> > http://dropbox.yousendit.com/BoukeVahl998172
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Christopher Lowden" <christopher@...>
> > To: <Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2011 10:07 PM
> > Subject: [Avid-L2] Re: 24p/25p?
> >
> > Concerning 24 versus 25, the answer is simple. It the primary exploitation
> > is cinema film then go 24. 24 is the standard both for film and dcp. If you
> > have a project that might be shown on a couple of short film festivals,
> > choose 25 as the primary exploitation will be the video world. Often, the
> > film distributor will demand a certain frame rate depending on the
> > exploitation strategy and distribution costs. Be very careful on the sound.
> > People are often obsessed by the video, but it is the sound that has often
> > caused me the most problems. Pitching sound even from 24 to 25 can be very
> > problematic.
> > Hope this helps.
> >
> > --- In Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com, "johnrobmoore" <bigfish@> wrote:
> > >
> > > So 24frames/sec divided by 50 cycles/sec = 24frames/50 cycles
> > > 24frames/50 cycles multiplied by 360 degrees/frame=172.8degrees/cycle.
> > >
> > > Now a cycle is an AC sine wave. So this is saying that at a shutter of
> > > 172.8 degrees my exposure time will maintain a constant relationship to
> > > the AC sine wave powering the lights. The AC sine wave is the voltage
> > > feeding the lights so the lights will have a constant voltage relative to
> > > the shutter opening which should maintain a constant light level during
> > > the exposure window. I feel like I might be missing something here.
> > >
> > > --- In Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com, "bouke" <bouke@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > and a good opportunity for math class 101
> > > > (much more appreciated on the FCP-L, but that's another story...)
> > > >
> > > > For 24 with 50 Hz light:
> > > > 24 fps / 50 hz * 360 (degrees) = 172.8
> > > > That makes for 23.976: 172.6272 (no idea if that's an option...)
> > > >
> > > > For shooting 24 in the US:
> > > > 24 fps / 60 hz * 360 (degrees) = 144 degrees
> > > >
> > > > But the bottom line, set your exposure time to a multiple of the light
> > > > frequency and you should be safe...
> > > > (and there is logic in that...)
> > > >
> > > > (disclaimer, i'm not a DOP, but just love to understand the way things
> > > > work...)
> > > >
> > > > Bouke
> > > >
> > > > VideoToolShed
> > > > van Oldenbarneveltstraat 33
> > > > 6512 AS NIJMEGEN
> > > > The Netherlands
> > > > +31 24 3553311
> > > > www.videotoolshed.com
> > > > For large files:
> > > > http://dropbox.yousendit.com/BoukeVahl998172
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "David Dodson" <davidadodson@>
> > > > To: <Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com>
> > > > Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2011 11:04 AM
> > > > Subject: Re: [Avid-L2] Re: 24p/25p?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Ahhhhhh... That's hot information! Thanks, Job!
> > > > >
> > > > > David
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On Aug 17, 2011, at 12:53 PM, Job ter Burg (L2B) wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >> Just asked a DoP buddy. Cameras have a shutter setting for 172.8
> > > > >> degrees,
> > > > >> which is used on 24fps film shoots, to compensate for practicals and
> > > > >> non-flicker-free lights. Effectively, the shutter speed then becomes
> > > > >> 1/48th rather than 1/24th, he said.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> On 17 aug 2011, at 08:02, David Dodson wrote:
> > > > >>
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > And if you have practicals on set? For example, we start shooting a
> > > > >> > feature next week here in Moscow. We're shooting RED cameras,
> > > > >> > probably
> > > > >> > at 24fps, and will have plenty of practical lights on set. So are
> > > > >> > we
> > > > >> > better off going 24fps, 23.976fps, or 25fps? And this is for
> > > > >> > theatrical
> > > > >> > distribution, both in 35mm and DCP.
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > David
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >
> > > > > David Dodson
> > > > > davidadodson@
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > ------------------------------------
> > > > >
> > > > > Search the offical complete Avid-L archives at:
> > > > > http://archives.bengrosser.com/avid/
> > > > >
> > > > > If you want to donate to Red Cross quake relief, you can do so through
> > > > > your cell phone. Text redcross to 90999 to make a $10 donation. It
> > > > > will be
> > > > > on your next cell bill.Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
> David Dodson
> davidadodson@...
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
If you want to donate to Red Cross quake relief, you can do so through your cell phone. Text redcross to 90999 to make a $10 donation. It will be on your next cell bill.
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