Tuesday, January 26, 2010

Re: [Avid-L2] Re: A plea for Rec run TC on file based shoots, and to introduce 23.976

In my experience (receiving dailies, not shooting), Lockits are OK,
but not the magic bullet... Although that link says "Typically, the
drift will be less than 1 frame per day", that has not been my
experience, even when crew is supposedly re-jaming at lunch.

I suppose the word "typically" should be taken with a grain of salt
when it appears in marketing materials :)

The problem is that if you have to check sync on all shots, and
frequently adjust by a frame or two, then you are spending almost as
much time as simply syncing by hand.

Time for Lockit 2.0 (WI-FI enabled to sync with other lockits or
master clock, and optional GPS capability to sync with UTC via GPS)!

best-
-N

On Jan 26, 2010, at 9:06 AM, Mark wrote:

> Wireless? Not quite, but don't leave home without them.
>
> http://www.coffeysound.com/Ambient-ACL202CT-Lockit-Box.html
>
> mark
>
> --- In Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com, "ponglest" <tim.harris@...> wrote:
> >
> > I have to agree, DF is such a nasty thing that introducing a new
> one brings shivers to my spine. Hopefully SMPTE's new working group
> on timecode & synchronisation will help to solve these problems.
> >
> > In the mean time, file based media and software workflows mean
> that we can do things like: pull the camera's serial number out of
> the file, group all of the files from one camera, apply a
> synchronising offset to each group of files to align them.
> >
> > Has someone done a TC generator with wireless repeaters? Similar
> idea to wireless speakers where the clock is kept in synch over a
> non-synchronous channel.
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Tim
> >
> > --- In Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com, nat jencks <natjencks.lists@> wrote:
> > > Re the introduction of 23.976 DF timecode, I have to say I
> wouldn't be
> > > a supporter.
> > >
> > > DF is such a horrendous pain. Yes, its easier for broadcasters to
> > > calculate the actual running time of a show, and certainly would
> make
> > > it easier to program the syncing of TC with clock-on-the-wall
> TC, but
> > > DF is so naaasty.
> > >
> > > long term (maybe not that long term), I like the idea of having
> small
> > > GPS units receiving UTC (over the GPS signal), which can
> apparently
> > > realistically be accurate within 1msec. This little "GPS-SYNC" box
> > > receives UTC time in the format YYYY:MM:DD:HH:MM:SS:uuuuuu where
> u is
> > > microseconds, and then converts to what ever format you want
> (audio
> > > samples after midnight, 23.976 NDF, 30fps DF, 30fps NDF, etc)
> and can
> > > output TC over a bnc and be attached to a camera... Having the
> "GPS-
> > > SYNC" unit seperate from the camera / audio device / etc. seems
> > > preferable since for the forseable future such a device would be
> > > fairly expensive ($500-$1000), and be an additional kit/rental or
> > > purchase.
> > >
> > > -N
> > >
> > > On Jan 25, 2010, at 7:22 AM, phillipsm wrote:
> > >
> > > > Semantics aside, my point was to illustrate that both TOD and
> REC
> > > > RUN are still used in today's workflows and that both source
> ID's
> > > > can be used in an EDL. While I agree that terms like Labroll and
> > > > Camroll aren't the greatest, I still use Camroll to represent
> the
> > > > media that came off a single card from my XDCAM... it's as
> good as
> > > > any I guess. Even the RED file name has a section called REEL.
> There
> > > > are plenty of custom columns one can create for more comfortable
> > > > terms, but they could only be used as a source ID via XML at
> this
> > > > time.
> > > >
> > > > Back to Bouke's original point about a drop frame 24TC. I
> think that
> > > > is a good idea and has been discussed internally before to
> reflect
> > > > wall time when working at 23.976 for the production master
> used in
> > > > NTSC based television countries. It can be "manufactured" as a
> > > > display pretty easily. Much like the other manufactured timecode
> > > > that are in MC and not part of SMPTE standards such as:
> > > >
> > > > 25PD: PAL 24fps played out with pulldown (12 frames + 1 field)
> > > > 30NP: 23.976 or 24 played out as 29.97 with 2:2:2:2 pulldown
> > > > 60P: 60fps timecode. While the format exists, there is no SMPTE
> > > > standard for it - all driven by 30fps standards.
> > > >
> > > > And while we're at it, why only have 24 hours in a
> postproduction
> > > > process? I am not talking about acquisition for REC RUN - but in
> > > > post for transfers and selects reels - why not have up to
> 99:59:59:xx?
> > > >
> > > > Michael
> > > >
> > > > --- In Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com, "Mark" <markraudonis@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > "Labroll", "onelight"... seems like the terminology needs to
> > > > update along with the technology.
> > > > >
> > > > > Makr
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com, "phillipsm"
> <michael_phillips@>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I am not at all referring to film. I am referring to tape
> based
> > > > and file based acquired shows and how they are being handled in
> > > > Amercan primetine television. I did not mention the word film
> omce.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Michzel
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- In Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com, "Mark" <markraudonis@>
> wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > You're assuming that people are still shooting film... I
> think
> > > > the discussion started with the assumption that acquisition is
> FILE
> > > > BASED.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Mark
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --- In Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com, "phillipsm"
> > > > <michael_phillips@> wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > In the higher end television workflows you will see a
> blend
> > > > of REC RUN and TOD in the workflow. When dailies go through a
> > > > facility for a basic one light and selects "reel" the START now
> > > > reflects the selects and the "Tape" - this is the REC RUN
> version.
> > > > But each of those clips maintain the original source and TOD
> > > > timecode from the originals - be it file based or tape. These
> values
> > > > get tracked in a variety of columns - TC24, AUXTC24, AuxTC
> 1-5, etc.
> > > > Alternate sources are tracked in Camroll or Labroll depending
> on how
> > > > may generations need to be tracked. EDL Manager can then
> output any
> > > > source TC and Reel combo for online needs downstream. Avid
> tracks it
> > > > all. SO it is about getting the best workflow for the
> production at
> > > > hand - and while 80% are the same, it can be the 20% differences
> > > > that kill you! ;)
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Michael
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > --- In Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com, Pierre H <ph@> wrote:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Bouke said:
> > > > > > > > > > I am thinking that there is no need to shoot Rec
> Run tc
> > > > anymore on
> > > > > > > > > > file
> > > > > > > > > > based shoots / workflows.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Definitely. Luckily, I was involved at the early
> stages of
> > > > 2 films -
> > > > > > > > > before shooting - and that's exactly what I asked for:
> > > > Free run TC
> > > > > > > > > based on Time of day. One of them being XDCam, I
> asked my
> > > > assistant to
> > > > > > > > > add a 4 digits tape number for each day MMDD (Month/
> Day)
> > > > on ingest.
> > > > > > > > > That way, there is no confusion possible as a same
> "tape"
> > > > can't have
> > > > > > > > > the same TC twice.
> > > > > > > > > RecRun is very much a tape workflow, but the habit is
> > > > deeply rooted in
> > > > > > > > > most departments.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Pierre
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> >
>
>
>

------------------------------------

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