RE: Dual Monitoring - The only solution I can think of for your PVM is to put a LUT box in front of it for the purpose of scaling from Full > Legal. It should give you an accurate display that you can run next to the big boy since Data Level scaling should not be destructive and the blacks should match.
RE: My mismatch - Indeed, highlight/shadows blown with a little too much saturation in the mids. I also purposely worked the shadows and the crushing of the shadows took what was already dark and turned it into an inkblot. Grrr...
RE: File Metadata - On the Mac, Screen is pretty good but I use MediaInfo to see how my renders are getting tagged since it's so hard to trust anything anymore. Here's a screenshot:
You can find it here: https://mediaarea.net/en/MediaInfo
- pi
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Patrick inhofer
Patrick inhofer
On Tue, Oct 5, 2021 at 4:51 PM John Moore <bigfish@pacbell.net> wrote:
[Edited Message Follows]
In rereading your post I'm curious when you had the mismatch on your streamer delivery was it blown out or washed out. In my case it was washed out because clipster or resolve interpreted the DPX with an assumption of Full Range when it was not. I'd bet that in your case the encoders assumed that your ProRes444XQ was legal range and scaled it improperly to Full Range when it already was. That's been what I've been thinking about what ProRes files are supposed to be over the years. I haven't found a "Swiss Army Knife" program that will parse out a files metadata to tell me these sorts of things about what metadata flags are set to. I have media info and that's good for some basic things. Do know of a good program that will display all the metadata for a file?
Be sides all the potential mismatches it's also hard to look at PQ video essence and see if its full range or legal. Recently I got a ProResHQ HDR file from a friend and the video essence seemed to be Full Range when I played it out through BM Express through my DNxIO to my Tek scope it was well below 0mV. That indicated to me it was Full Range.
On Tue, Oct 5, 2021 at 11:05 AM, Patrick Inhofer wrote:
John,In Resolve, external monitor settings need to *always* match your Project Settings > Video Monitoring > Data Levels.This may be set irrespective of how you've set up your Color Managed pipeline. It's always a simple non-destructive linear scale between Video <> Full so whatever you've set your color management to for the project, you can send it to your external display however you want as long as the setting in Resolve matches your external display. I've seen some Best Practices that insist you need to monitor at Full in PQ workflows - but I have serious doubts about that advice so long as Resolve and the display are handling the image in the same manner. But if you want a standard practice, that's it.I myself got slammed by a Data Levels problem on a DoVi deliverable to a major streamer 10 days ago. I explicitly set FULL on the deliver page for a ProRes444XQ render, as specified in the documentation provided by the streamer.When the show was released I was horrified to see that there was clearly a Data Levels mismatch problem. After working with Dolby we surmised that setting Resolve to 'Auto' generated a container that survived the post-delivery encoders when the streamer was packaging for delivery.The thinking is this: The various encoders are expecting a deliverable that conforms to the published 'default' of the PreRes444XQ container - even if the container properly specifies whatever explicit setting you apply. So the fix for me was: Rerender using 'Auto' for Data Levels, and the program looks correct at the end of the pipeline. Problem solved (for me).Now: Is this the 'proper' workflow? Who knows? But it's the workflow I had to follow to get a proper deliverable streaming into the home. YMMV.RE: 100 nit monitoring - The 100 nit target should be monitored EXACTLY as the HDR master. You should NOT switch Resolve's Data Levels or the external display. Resolve's internal color management will handle all this for you. You just need to make sure the Gamut/Gamma settings match your 100 nit target on the external display.I hope this all makes sense? I can't speak to how this lines up with Avid exports...- -
Patrick inhoferPhoton Wrangler, Colorist, CoachTaoOfColor.com / MixingLight.comSubscribe to my free weekly Color Grading Newsletter!
On Sat, Sep 25, 2021 at 9:34 PM John Moore <bigfish@pacbell.net> wrote:I am running Avid/Resolve on a mid 2012 12 Core 3.46 GHz, 128 GB ram, Radeon RX-580 Saphire Pulse 8GB GPU. I have the Avid branded DNxIO which feeds an Aja Hi 5 SDI to HDMI converter to trigger the HDR mode on my LG OLED C9. I've had the LG OLED and my PVM-2541 professionally calibrated with the LG having separate calibrations for SDR and HDR. I have confirmed with the calibration technician that the calibrations were done feeding legal level to the LG OLED. They said that's how they always do it unless someone requests Full Range. I realize in the higher end monitors like the Sony X310 you can set that the SDI input for legal (or they might call it limited) or Full Range but the LG to my knowledge has no such toggle.Here are some of the behaviors I'm seeing:In Resolve V16 and probably V17 as far as I know I can adjust the Data Level in the master settings to video or full for legal or full range to feed out of the DNxIO. In order to do the trim SDR pass for Dolby Vision using the Target Display Output there is only one choice for 100 Nits and that is "100-nit, BT.709, BT.1886, Full". Using this setting the Target Display Output follows the master settings Video Monitor Data Levels setting. So setting Data Levels to Full yields a blown out SDR SDI signal with the level way below 0mV and way above 700mV. Switching to Video Data Levels and the Target Display output is correct on an SDR Scope and monitor.The Aja Hi 5 has a configuration Control Panel that has input and output level adjustments which they call SMPTE for Legal and Full for Full Range. If feed a YCbCr SDI signal these controls are not functional. I assume this is because in Googling I found that YCbCr is always Legal Range. If I feed it 4:4:4 SDI then the input and output level controls function as expected.In Resolve V16 and probably V17 when running in YCbCr mode, no check on 444 SDI in the master settings, I can still toggle the the Data Levels between Video and Full and I see corresponding jump in the SDI output of the DNxIO. This seems to contradict what I found Googling regarding YCbCr always being legal or limit range. Given the Aja Hi 5 has no level controls when feed YCbCr I assume I should choose Video level so that the Hi 5 YCbCr going in is legal.The ultimate question is when outputting a file for Dolby Vision, targa or tiff sequence etc..., what should the video essence of the PQ material be Video or Full? I'm told HDR is Full Range so I would guess that but then when doing the Dolby Vision Trim pass if I monitor while in Full range I get a very blown out Target Display Output which effects the trim pass and if I switch to Video Range output the Target Display for 100 nit looks more normal to start with. I would think I should be in video mode to do the 100 nit Trim Pass using Target Display Mode but I am not certain of this.So I am trying to find out what the video essence of the PQ ST 2084 level should be legal or full and if full then what is the 100 nit trim pass supposed to be done in Full or Legal Mode?John Moore Barking Trout Productions Studio City, CA bigfish@pacbell.net
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