Okay I have even tried launching my 8.5.2 so I could access source settings and still everything comes in as if it's really 601/709 levels. Sure in 8.5.2 I now know I can access source settings but all indications are still that the video essence is still 709 levels.
I went back to my 6.5.4.7 symphony and tried a traditional import of the Adobe Media Encoder baked supposedly RGB file and also the Avid exported supposedly RGB file. No matter how I set the import to 709 or RGB the files playback at perfect levels. Choosing 709 leads to a fast import and RGB takes longer like I would expect when Avid is scaling levels on import but still the files all playback color bars at perfect level. WTF? I repeat WTF? I can only conclude from this that when a file is in an Avid DNX codec Avid has some special handshake that supersedes the settings in the import dialogue box. Yes in 8.52 I could alter the level in source settings but only to scale it down below normal color bar levels. Everything points to a video essence that is 16-235 no matter if I've set the export to RGB on both the Avid export box and the custom format export box. And also using Adobe Media Encoder set to RGB everything still act like 709 levels in Avid land.
This seems so basic what the hell am I missing?
---In avid-l2@yahoogroups.com, <pale.edit@...> wrote :
On Fri, May 6, 2016 at 11:05 AM, bigfish@... [Avid-L2] <Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com> wrote:I did check those boxes on my Avid Export directly to QT movie. For the QT Ref export to take to Adobe Media Encoder I also check the first box to RGB then when in AME I set that to RGB. According to you post I've done those steps. I'm still waiting to hear back from the truck engineer to see it the file is correct for his needs. If the files I have made truly have 0 to 255 levels I'm surprised that when I ama link they don't come back in with low blacks and high whites like when I import an RGB graphic but tell Avid it's 601/709. Because there is no access to source settings on clips that are already in an Avid DNX codec I can't toggle to check. Perhaps I should do a standard import of the test files and toggle RGB vs 601/709 there. If those act like typical RGB imports then I will feel more secure that the actual video essence of the files I'm making are 0 to 255. If they work for the truck engineer then I'm fine. I might reach out to Tektronix to see if there file based QC tools can properly access the actual video essence of the file. I will also use MediaInfo when I get back to work to see what the file's meta data thinks it is.
Besides all this under the hood stuff I am really confused as to why a Truck playback system would require RGB levels on files when everything in the world of Broadcast is 601/709 in my world. Why would a playback system not work in 601/709 like the network the show will air on wants when I deliver files to them? They also specify non drop time code which again is not what the network would want if I delivered the files to them. I just can't imagine a system that can't accommodate a 601/709 file or am I dealing with a truck workflow that is unwilling to create the necessary profile to ingest what is clearly a very standard file type for broadcast TV?
---In Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com, <jb30343@...> wrote :I export DNxHD Quicktimes fairly often and use them as masters to
compress deliverables in AME or Sorenson. If you want RGB levels (which
Avid now calls something else) you have to set it in two places in your
export settings. There is a check box on the first page of the Export
Settings window and one under Format Options then Settings. If you
check both boxes the resulting file will be 0-255. So, if you edited in
709 and color corrected so that everything was in the 0-700mV range,
your file will have RGB levels ranging from 0-255. --J.B.
John Moore bigfish@... [Avid-L2] wrote:> John Moore Barking Trout Productions Studio City, CA bigfish@...>
>
> I've asked several forms of this question in the past but today I have
> a specific request from the truck engineers for a live show we are
> prepping playback elements for. For starters we've shot primarily
> with Alexa, I know that horrible camera that isn't even Netflix 4K
> worthy, but we are doing HD 23.976 transcoding to DNX 175X for offline
> and online given our quick turn around. We are baking in the LogC to
> Rec 709 LUT and all looks fine. We always work Rec 709 in Avid as
> it's the broadcast standard for all our deliveries.
>
>
>
> Now the truck person wants us to deliver 59.94i files in DNX-145 8 bit
> RGB files. Well for starters DNX-145 is only 8 bit so that is a no
> brainer. 59.94i is also understandable as this will be a live
> broadcast in the US. It's the RGB that is confusing me. I have done
> the mixdown in the 23.976 project to DNX 115, which I assume it the
> DNX-145 equivalent just like DNX-175X is the DNX-220X equivalent, and
> then opened a 59.94i with all the motion adapters and modification to
> the mixdown sequence. I then export a QT movie with custom set to
> DNX-145 Upper field and click RGB to comply with the requests. Now
> the resulting file is 59.94i but when I ama link to it the levels of
> color bars come back in perfectly. Given it is an Avid codec I have
> no ability to change the source settings from 709 to RGB to see if
> there is a difference. Given I've always understood the ama link to
> bypass the QT engine and therefore display the true video essence of a
> file I would expect if I had truly exported to RGB levelsI would be
> seeing color bars going way below 0 millivolts and way over 700 mV
> just like I do when an RGB level file is imported as if it is 709 and
> not scaled into legal range. Doesn't this mean the real video essence
> in the supposedly RGB exported file is still 709 levels.
>
> I also used Adobe Media Encoder sending a QT ref file from the 23.976
> project and setting it's levels to RGB and also a 2nd QT ref set to
> 709. Once baked out of AME with the pulldown added the QT Ref
> exported at RGB level comes back ama linked in Avid at perfect levels
> while the QT Ref exported with 709 level checked comes back ama linked
> low in level. This behavior is common for me when using AME so I
> always check RGB when exporting QT ref to AME. Bottom line is once
> again the RGB exported QT ref once processed in AME yield the correct
> levels when ama linked back into Avid. So to me that means the actual
> video essence is still 709.
>
> I'm waiting to hear back if the AME file will be acceptable. I'm
> beginning to think that the behavior I see in AME with regards to
> checking RGB vs 709 level is indicative of how other types of software
> read files and maybe the gear on the truck needs the metadata flag set
> to RGB to properly handle a file which is really 709 in video
> essence. I'll report back when I find out but apparently the truck
> person is being very uncooperative about questions as to why they want
> a "RGB" file and not the ubiquitous 709 standard that is what the
> network that is airing the live show wants when we give them files.
> What kind of truck playback system doesn't work with 709 video
> levels? I also get suspicious of tech specs that request DNX-145 8
> bit given 145 is only 8 bit. What's next a tip penetration spec on
> the file?
>
> On a related topic. I never work in RGB projects as all my work is
> broadcast but if I were to work in an RGB project how do I properly
> monitor that in my Tek wfm-7020 and Rec 709 program monitor. I see
> when I'm running Ver 8.5.2 when I change the project color space
> things change drastically with 2020 shifting hue on the vector scope,
> which is the way the math works as far as I know. When I switch to
> and RGB project the levels jump well below 0 and over 700 so what is
> one to do when scoping and RGB show. I will have to look but I don't
> recall and RGB mode on my scope, something akin to choosing 100
> percent bars over 75 percent in the vector scope setting. And what
> would be a compelling reason to work in RGB space. I think that is
> common in 444 projects but I don't have in practical experience or
> need to work those projects yet.
>
>
>
>
>
Posted by: bigfish@pacbell.net
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