This IS the Avid L2: Re: [Avid-L2] Outputting Direct Audio to Same As Source QT from Avid?

Friday, October 30, 2015

Re: [Avid-L2] Outputting Direct Audio to Same As Source QT from Avid?

It's not the first render it's all the additional versions that will require a new video mixdowns. Yes I could start stacking additional tracks of video mixdowns but that's just more work than my current QT reference work flow. Pulling Textless Elements for the international is fast in my current workflow. I could do a video mixdown that includes the safe color limiter but I take advantage of the safe color partial renders to access relational color correction changes. I keep title tool above the save color limiter and any keyed graphics with text adding a safe color limit to those that require it. I haven't had any issues with those precomputes in my QT reference but it becomes a car herding session when trying to sort through where the problems occur. I like your suggestion about the mixdown detecting offline media. I still have to output tape so I get that prompt when attempting a digital cut. I suppose I could also do a mock digital cut to determine any offline media and divide and conquer as needed.

It's clear that if I have to absolutely do everything I can to make a file compatible I need to mixdown but for my typical series work where I've established a workflow that the network accepts I don't see a need to change yet. When QT Pro goes bye bye as Mr. Phillip the Harbinger of QT Doom keeps warning I can only hope Avid's direct audio export newer features will let me go straight out of Avid without need for mixdowns. More will be revealed. It's great learning others' approaches to workflow challenges.

---In avid-l2@yahoogroups.com, <mactvman@...> wrote :

With regards to Video Mixdowns taking a lot of space...If you are doing a Safe Color limiter on your timelines you are using almost exactly as much space as a Video Mixdown just with that one pre-compute. Once you include other video renders it's probably more.

I view Video Mixdowns as a render you can see, load into source monitor, match back to, etc. I don't render a sequence, resulting in hundreds of gigs of pre-computes, driving my file count in media folders way up. Ever have a portion of a sequence that just will not render? The time honored fix I am familiar with has always been to do a video mixdown of that section.

Thus I proclaim "Don't render, Video Mixdown!"

The other thing I like about Video Mixdowns is that they absolutely WILL NOT WORK on a timeline without ALL video track media online. It's a great way to avoid missing a Media Offline in your timeline. When video mixdown doesn't work on a huge hour long timeline, I divide and conquer to locate the offline media. Oh, it was a 1 frame source in the first frame of a 5 layer nest being dissolved to, my offline editor gave me...Found it!

If there is offline footage you want to keep as a reference...Put it on a higher track, above your mixdown. Or mute the track. (one of my other favorites that got added to AVID recently, mute track and mute clip.)

Also, if your versioning your show, you can have separate layers for the sections that differ (textless for example). QT Ref files seem to work way better with multiple segments of "flattened" or video mixdown media. What I see generally cause problems in QT refs are pre-computes and filler.

Dave Hogan

Burbank, CA

On Thursday, October 29, 2015 10:22 PM, "bigfish@... [Avid-L2]" <Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

I could delete them but then a week later when they need another file exported I'd have to remixdown. Again not the end of the world but certainly a buzz kill. For me at this particular production company the hoops to export a QT Ref take less time and storage than remaking video mixdowns that I've deleted. It's also a buzz kill when the file doesn't work for the network/client. That's why now that I see I can in fact export to a QT with audio set to direct that may eliminate all the hassles with QT ref.

The one thing I haven't tested is if Avid will require an audio mixdown when exporting a mixed frame rate sequence. The one sequence I tested was a pure 23.976 timeline. I'll have to test on one of my regular mixed frame rate series sequences. Those always require and audio mixdown to be checked in the export settings which has traditionally meant just a stereo track on export. Now if the Avid required audio mixdown is a true direct out of all tracks then it won't be an issue. I'll give that a shot tomorrow. More will be revealed.

If it all works out next year on National Cat day I won't have to be pussy footing around with QT references. Meow!!!!

---In Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com, <kwikpasta@...> wrote :

"I know a video mixdown isn't the end of the world but at my regular gig that adds a lot of additional storage."

Only if you keep the mixdowns. Just delete them once you're through with the export?

Andi

To: Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com
From: Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2015 16:37:03 -0700
Subject: Re: [Avid-L2] Outputting Direct Audio to Same As Source QT from Avid?

Oh no the real definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again knowing that you're going to get the same results and doing it anyways. I'm now hoping that given what I've just been told in this thread if Avid 8.3+ will export audio direct with a channel for each track then I don't think I need the QT Ref at all.

I know a video mixdown isn't the end of the world but at my regular gig that adds a lot of additional storage. Every show has a Textless, Promo and an International file version plus tape delivery. I know storage is rather cheap but I only have a 16TB raid for online and keeping a series or 2 online for a season plus additional projects becomes a challenge which is exacerbated by set volume sizes on my raid chassis. Adding 200 GB to each episode would push me past a workable size. Of course storage is cheap, I already said that, but I've been asking for an extra 10 video patch cords for over 2 years and still nothing.

Bottom line is my regular file deliveries for the series work for the network. Now the latest Netflix issue raises concerns even though the network itself was okay with our file. At least in that case I have asked our mixer to give me tone and 3 minutes of extra media region at the end and that seems to eliminate the problem we had there.

Now here's a question that comes to mind regarding video mixdowns. My understanding is that mixdowns eliminate the gotchas when dealing with mixed frame rate sequences. They also create a single common codec and they also create one clip which greatly simplifies the QT reference .mov. Now i get a bunch of QC notes etc.... I remake the video mixdown in the fixed or changed sections. Now the QT reference has a few more clips to deal with on the video side but still works fine in my experience. For me the mixed frame rate gotchas can be fixed by exporting with an audio mixdown then doing an audio only QT reference and marrying those in QT Pro. Now my recent problems related to starting with filler audio has been solved as far as I can tell. With all that if I take the resulting .mov in FCP7 and it works is that a solid guarantee it will work everywhere? Is there a universally accepted piece of software that will provide an accurate barometer of a files integrity? I just wish I knew how to look at the RF envelope and ctrl track pulses etc... on a file so I could have a fighting chance. Is that too much to ask for in 2015?

And by the way being called insane is one of the nicer things I'm usually called. ;-)

---In avid-l2@yahoogroups.com, <cutandcover@...> wrote :

John,

Not for nothing, but if ALL of the advice you get every time you talk about QT Ref is to mixdown, isn't that the solution? Wasn't it Einstein who said that the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result?

On Thu, Oct 29, 2015 at 5:32 PM, bigfish@... [Avid-L2] <Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

---In avid-l2@yahoogroups.com, <domqsilverio@...> wrote :
"Most editors here will mixdown audio and video then use Same as Source with Direct Out audio."

As you may have read in my myriad of posts on this and related subjects I'm not a fan of doing mixdowns. I in no way say that because it's correct, it's just problematic with my hour long shows with multiple versions. I always put a safe color limit over the sequence which I force the render to a particular DNX or ProRes codec so I alleviate having differing codecs in the file export. That mostly accomplishes what a video mixdown does. Interestingly in the Catapult delivery guide they say to never use video filler and always slug in some media in the same codec as the timeline. I think that relates to the problem of a same as source exporting in multiple codecs over the course of the file. Again I think that's another reason for video mixdowns or in my case the safe color render to a particular codec.

My understanding is that Avid has multiple files for the various resolutions for media offline depending on the resolution of a particular timeline it will use the appropriate media offline file. Is the same true for video filler? I've always acted as if it is and have never slugged in media in video filler sections. So far I've not had an issue related to that as far as I know. This Catapult guide makes me want to rethink that. As per the guide I cut in a black title at the sequence codec rendered to the same codec. Does anybody know what is happening under the hood when there is video filler in an Avid timeline?

---In avid-l2@yahoogroups.com, <domqsilverio@...> wrote :

I'm not sure about the filler question but we rarely use QT Ref for output. Most editors here will mixdown audio and video then use Same as Source with Direct Out audio.

Dom Q. Silverio

On Thu, Oct 29, 2015 at 4:43 PM, Dave Hogan mactvman@... [Avid-L2] <Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

In reply about using "Filler" in QT reference outputs...

I have ALWAYS done a video and audio mixdown of all tracks to create reliable QT reference files out of AVID.

I believe there is too much inconsistency both in implementation and parsing of QT Reference files to expect them to work with anything other than the program that made them...and not even then on occasion.

Dave Hogan
Burbank, CA