the EBU document shows 80% horizontally for title safe, have you protected for that?
If yes, you shouldn't have any problems.
BG
From: johnrobmoore <bigfish@pacbell.net>
To: Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, October 30, 2013 10:06 PM
Subject: [Avid-L2] Re: Fw: Today's Episode of QC Corner what does 14;9 protect really mean?
So I've always used the 10% Safe Action and 20% Safe Title in my NTSC centric world but according to this the newer recommended practice is 93% safe action and 90 % safe title:
http://tinyurl.com/m84yw4t
In the PAL document it for R95 It shows 3.5% safe action and 5% safe title even for SD. Did PAL never use the 10% / 20% guide lines we did in the US?
I realize I'm mixing numbers so when I say 10% in safe action that is the same as 90% of the picture. I always was told 10% in and 20% in so my brain thinks going in not the amount of actual picture area. You know for my NTSC this means the current RP is 93% and 90% but for the most part I've never seen that used for the same reasons my QC monkeys are using the old standard. And as always when I use the term "Monkey" I mean it with the most sincere respect to the species.
--- In Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com, Bogdan Grigorescu <bogdan_grigorescu@...> wrote:
>
> not sure if this helps, but 4:3 graphic(title) safe inside 1920x1080 is 1152 pixels, whereas 14:9 safe is 1344.
> more stuff here:Â http://tech.ebu.ch/docs/r/r095.pdf
>
> cheers,
> BG
> www.finale.tv
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: John Moore <bigfish@...>
> To: Avid L2 <Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, October 29, 2013 6:56 PM
> Subject: [Avid-L2] Fw: Today's Episode of QC Corner what does 14;9 protect really mean?
>
>
>
> Â
> Â
> John Moore
> Barking Trout Productions
> Studio City, CA
> bigfish@...
>
> ----- Forwarded Message -----
> From: John Moore <bigfish@...>
> To: Avid L2 <Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, October 29, 2013 6:47 PM
> Subject: Today's Episode of QC Corner what does 14;9 protect really mean?
>
>
>
> So the delivery spec for a show I'm doing for discovery has a safe title grid with bug safe areas that basically maps out traditional safe title for 16x9 smpte safe action and safe title along with a 14:9 Protect. The instructions read use this template for all projects created in 1080 line High Definition and airing in SD 16x9 Letterbox. So I opt for the more conservative 14:9 safe to avoid hassles down the line. Now there is another distribution channel foreign whose delivery requirements include digibeta Pal and NTSC FHA 16x9 (14x9 protected-super & graphics 4x3 safe) Because all the graphics have no text and all my titles are 14:9 protected I figure I'm good to go for the added distribution channel.Â
>
>
> Well enter QC monkeyville where they tell us the titles are out of 4x3 and will be cut off. Basically I've found 14:9 protect is virtually 4x3 safe action when setting the Avid grid to 4x3 inside 16x9 so I'm confused as to why it would be cut off on an FHA 16x9 dub. I tell them that I realize it's more like 4x3 safe action but that's the specs for the show. Meanwhile they keep squawking about 4x3 safe title so we end up driving over to have a discussion about what part of FHA dub don't they get. The tune changed from things will be cut off to it might be a pixel out of safe action. I'm curious how others are approaching these situations. I figure if they ask for a FHA digibeta it's very unlikely that the show will air center cut but more likely letterbox. At least that's what the discovery channel bug clearance etc... suggests. Given the show is being delivered on HDCam masters my understanding is most broadcasting distribution these days
> is only done in HD and it's the cable and satellite head ends that use a dual receiver to do a downconvert on the fly for the SD tier needs.  Given this isn't it unlikely the digibeta would be used for transmission? I guess given the newer tolerances like IIRC PBS saying safe action and title are 3 and 5 percent in not 10 and 20 like the old days should I really be making everything 4x3 safe? Especially when the specs read as they do? When I mentioned that PBS's newer tolerance the QC person well traditional is still 20 and 10 percent so we decided to leave the titles as is for now and let the broadcaster complain. Just a fine day to play in the QC sandbox.
>
> Â
> John Moore
> Barking Trout Productions
> Studio City, CA
> bigfish@...
>
http://tinyurl.com/m84yw4t
In the PAL document it for R95 It shows 3.5% safe action and 5% safe title even for SD. Did PAL never use the 10% / 20% guide lines we did in the US?
I realize I'm mixing numbers so when I say 10% in safe action that is the same as 90% of the picture. I always was told 10% in and 20% in so my brain thinks going in not the amount of actual picture area. You know for my NTSC this means the current RP is 93% and 90% but for the most part I've never seen that used for the same reasons my QC monkeys are using the old standard. And as always when I use the term "Monkey" I mean it with the most sincere respect to the species.
--- In Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com, Bogdan Grigorescu <bogdan_grigorescu@...> wrote:
>
> not sure if this helps, but 4:3 graphic(title) safe inside 1920x1080 is 1152 pixels, whereas 14:9 safe is 1344.
> more stuff here:Â http://tech.ebu.ch/docs/r/r095.pdf
>
> cheers,
> BG
> www.finale.tv
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: John Moore <bigfish@...>
> To: Avid L2 <Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, October 29, 2013 6:56 PM
> Subject: [Avid-L2] Fw: Today's Episode of QC Corner what does 14;9 protect really mean?
>
>
>
> Â
> Â
> John Moore
> Barking Trout Productions
> Studio City, CA
> bigfish@...
>
> ----- Forwarded Message -----
> From: John Moore <bigfish@...>
> To: Avid L2 <Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, October 29, 2013 6:47 PM
> Subject: Today's Episode of QC Corner what does 14;9 protect really mean?
>
>
>
> So the delivery spec for a show I'm doing for discovery has a safe title grid with bug safe areas that basically maps out traditional safe title for 16x9 smpte safe action and safe title along with a 14:9 Protect. The instructions read use this template for all projects created in 1080 line High Definition and airing in SD 16x9 Letterbox. So I opt for the more conservative 14:9 safe to avoid hassles down the line. Now there is another distribution channel foreign whose delivery requirements include digibeta Pal and NTSC FHA 16x9 (14x9 protected-super & graphics 4x3 safe) Because all the graphics have no text and all my titles are 14:9 protected I figure I'm good to go for the added distribution channel.Â
>
>
> Well enter QC monkeyville where they tell us the titles are out of 4x3 and will be cut off. Basically I've found 14:9 protect is virtually 4x3 safe action when setting the Avid grid to 4x3 inside 16x9 so I'm confused as to why it would be cut off on an FHA 16x9 dub. I tell them that I realize it's more like 4x3 safe action but that's the specs for the show. Meanwhile they keep squawking about 4x3 safe title so we end up driving over to have a discussion about what part of FHA dub don't they get. The tune changed from things will be cut off to it might be a pixel out of safe action. I'm curious how others are approaching these situations. I figure if they ask for a FHA digibeta it's very unlikely that the show will air center cut but more likely letterbox. At least that's what the discovery channel bug clearance etc... suggests. Given the show is being delivered on HDCam masters my understanding is most broadcasting distribution these days
> is only done in HD and it's the cable and satellite head ends that use a dual receiver to do a downconvert on the fly for the SD tier needs.  Given this isn't it unlikely the digibeta would be used for transmission? I guess given the newer tolerances like IIRC PBS saying safe action and title are 3 and 5 percent in not 10 and 20 like the old days should I really be making everything 4x3 safe? Especially when the specs read as they do? When I mentioned that PBS's newer tolerance the QC person well traditional is still 20 and 10 percent so we decided to leave the titles as is for now and let the broadcaster complain. Just a fine day to play in the QC sandbox.
>
> Â
> John Moore
> Barking Trout Productions
> Studio City, CA
> bigfish@...
>
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