RE: [Avid-L2] Re: Wow Size does matter in offline even at DNX 45

Hi Rupert,

It's really not that bad if the prep has been done properly for it. Admittedly some places are much better than others but even at these resolutions offline workspaces on ISIS are often a few TBs just for offline at 15:s. I can't imagine how much storage you'd need to do something like Aprentice at DNxHD36? Plus, if conforms didn't take so long and require so much nannying and blackmagic, I'd be out of a job! ;)

Andi


To: Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com
From: mikeparsons.tv@gmail.com
Date: Wed, 8 May 2013 05:16:36 +0700
Subject: Re: [Avid-L2] Re: Wow Size does matter in offline even at DNX 45


























And I complain about phantom footage on tvcs!



But then I keep getting shots at 1000fps, I keep telling them to shout action then roll but I still get 11 minute clips... Roll camera - speed- action - at 1000fps is a lot of wasted disks... Can't wait till I start getting 4k at 2000fps. In stereo.



But same workflow. Prores proxies for offline, conform raw files in davinci grade and send Dpx to smoke.



Best regards



Mike



On 8 May, 2013, at 4:21 AM, namyrb <namyrb@gmail.com> wrote:



> I've collaborated on about 20 reality shows in the last year and a half and

> everything has been SD 15:1, 10:1, etc. in both tape based and tapeless

> workflows. Red usually gets transcoded to DNxHD 36 so that producers don't

> ask where their money went. Besides pilots, I don't see why any reality

> show would even consider cutting in HD proxies. It's even a battle working

> in SD proxies on 2 Isis' and a Unity with over 200TB of combined storage.

>

>

> On Tue, May 7, 2013 at 2:08 PM, johnrobmoore <bigfish@pacbell.net> wrote:

>

>> **

>>

>>

>> You seem to have hit the nail on the head with my initial concern when I

>> saw just how big the offline media was. For the 9 plus cam multicamera

>> reality shows I do storage on the unity would be taken up very quickly.

>> While NAS may be relatively cheap the need to have the offline media on the

>> unity/isis seems to really point to the more traditional SD resolutions

>> like 10:1 which I see used a lot.

>>

>>

>> --- In Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com, "Dom Q. Silverio" <domqsilverio@...>

>> wrote:

>>>

>>> AMA relink is usually a pain only for the assistant offline and online

>>> editors. Often, it is something you can resolve with an extra day or two

>> of

>>> conform. Properly planned, it is of minimal cost.

>>>

>>> Long term shared storage is much more expensive.

>>>

>>> 15:1s starts around 2 GB per hour. XDCAM EX is 20 GB per hour. We are not

>>> even discussing XDCAM HD, AVC-I, DNXHD or any of the common larger HD

>>> formats.

>>>

>>>

>>> That is 10 times more storage for the entire life of the show. Not to

>>> mention render and overall performance is worse with these heavily

>>> compressed HD codecs.

>>>

>>> Multicam is also an issue. Not only with storage and performance, but the

>>> bandwidth you require from your server and infrastructure.

>>>

>>>

>>> No matter what shared storage you buy like ISIS, EditShare, or

>> Terrablock,

>>> expanding these storages are expensive. Even with renting, where you

>>> mitigate a lot of the long-term risks, it is still quite a burden on the

>>> show's budget.

>>>

>>> It really depends on so many factors if you are going native/hi-res or

>>> offline/online workflow. But for long form collaborative environment

>>> offline/online is generally a better workflow IMHO.

>>>

>>>

>>> Dom Q. Silverio

>>>

>>>

>>> On Tue, May 7, 2013 at 12:49 PM, Rupert Watson <rupert@...> wrote:

>>>

>>>> Andi

>>>>

>>>> I recognize the workflow but I personally think that more time and

>> money

>>>> has been lost pursuing this sort of cockamamie workflow, and all the

>>>> relinking that goes with it, than has been saved by not buying big

>>>> enough work-in-progress storage to allow editing with the native media

>>>> files...

>>>>

>>>> Rupert Watson

>>>> +44 7787 554 801

>>>> www.root6.com

>>>>

>>>>

>>>> -----Original Message-----

>>>> From: Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com] On

>> Behalf

>>>> Of Andi Meek

>>>> Sent: 07 May 2013 11:43

>>>> To: Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com

>>>> Subject: RE: [Avid-L2] Re: Wow Size does matter in offline even at DNX

>>>> 45

>>>>

>>>> The large productions I work on all transcode down to 15:1s, 20:1 or

>>>> 10:1 (PAL resolutions). A lot of the rushes are shot on XDCAM or other

>>>> native formats so that's always kept native for online, anything else

>>>> gets DNxHD185. The rushes are copied to a NAS, copied to an archive,

>>>> AMA linked from the NAS in Avid and then transcoded down on to ISIS

>>>> storage for offline editing. None of the shows I work on (a lot of

>>>> reality tv like The Apprentice etc.) use DNX resolutions for offline,

>>>> it's all SD still. Finally for conforming, the ISIS is unmounted, the

>>>> AMA bins are reopened from the NAS and the sequence is relinked to the

>>>> high res media and consolidated on to a new online ISIS workspace. Job

>>>> done! (Although it's never that easy...)

>>>>

>>>> Andi

>>>>

>>>> To: Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com

>>>> From: yardley.david@...

>>

>>>> Date: Tue, 7 May 2013 10:30:42 +0000

>>>> Subject: [Avid-L2] Re: Wow Size does matter in offline even at DNX 45

>>>>

>>>>

>>>>

>>>>

>>>>

>>>>

>>>>

>>>>

>>>>

>>>>

>>>>

>>>>

>>>>

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>>>>

>>>>

>>>>

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>>>>

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>>>>

>>>>

>>>>

>>>>

>>>> John,

>>>>

>>>> At $75/Tb surely it is a no-brainer.

>>>>

>>>> Avoid all that relinking mucking about.

>>>>

>>>> I cannot resist saying that my first Avid storage was $4,000,000/Tb

>>>>

>>>> Yay I had 1.5Gb!

>>>>

>>>> David

>>>>

>>>>

>>>>

>>>> --- In Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com, John Moore <bigfish@> wrote:

>>>>

>>>>

>>>>> This is just an observation I had tonight on a project we've been

>>>> working on at home. This was the test run on ama in house for me. I

>>>> did the initial transcode to DNX 220 then transcoded that to DNX 45 for

>>>> offline. I was surprised to see that the offline media for this half

>>>> hour show was 341 GB and the online res was about 1.4TB. I know there

>>>> are size calculators out there but I hadn't realize how much space an

>>>> entire project takes at DNX 45. My work is mainly online so I've

>>>> forgotten just how fast things add up in the offline world. It makes me

>>>> rethink how I would manage a large reality production. Trying to keep

>>>> all the original DNX 220 transcodes seems a lot less viable on a large

>>>> scale than I had thought. I know storage is relatively cheap but even

>>>> so it would get burned up pretty quickly the way I was approaching the

>>>> in house show.

>>>>

>>>>

>>>>> I'm curious how others working on larger scale projects are going

>>>> about the ama workflows. What I was hoping to avoid by initially

>>>> transcoding to the online resolution seems like it wouldn't be

>>>> sustainable on the typical Reality shows I work on.

>>>>

>>>>

>>>>> John Moore

>>>>

>>>>

>>>>> Barking Trout Productions

>>>>

>>>>

>>>>> Studio City, CA

>>>>

>>>>

>>>>> bigfish@

>>>>

>>>>

>>>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>>>>

>>>>

>>>>

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>>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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>>>>

>>>>

>>>> ------------------------------------

>>>>

>>>> Search the official Complete Avid-L archives at:

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>>>> Yahoo! Groups Links

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>>>>

>>>>

>>>>

>>>> www.root6.com/blog

>>>> Our resource for the latest news, support tips and articles

>>>>

>>>>

>>>> root6 ltd

>>>> www.root6.com Registered in the UK at: 4 Wardour Mews, London W1F 8AJ

>>>> Tel: +44(0)207437 6052

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>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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>

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