Nat Geo, and I'm sure other networks, no longer accept 2:3 pull down. I'm sure they make exceptions for existing content but I did one show for them a couple years back with 2:3 pulldown and then did another show a few months later and got flagged for 2:3 content.
Nat Geo admitted that requiring 1:1:1:2 progressive made the broadcast worse than 2:3 but their issues in the web streaming outweighed image quality for broadcast. When I argued with them over this they said, "Broadcast will air anything but we don't want problems streaming content."
Oh well I have very few "Fs" to give these days so I wasn't going to waste one on this.
---In Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com, <cutandcover@...> wrote :
It's funny. You say "I can't image that conversion looking good." To that, I reply: have you seen network/cable television? There's an entire world that grew up on Final Cut Pro that never learned how to insert proper pulldown, and so much programming and commercial content is 1:1:1:2. It's gotten to the point where it's now an acceptable looking thing to many, and the rest of us just have to be OK with it. I can't tell you how many times I've been given episodes of shows to cut new promos and I've had to program macros to remove the duplicate frame so I can get back to a 23.98p 'master'…
On Wed, Jan 24, 2018 at 12:39 PM, Jeff Hedberg <jeff@...> wrote:Interesting. Thanks for the examples. I'm now wondering how we'd try to make that from our 23.98 footage as well.I can't image that conversion looking good.Jeff
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Jeff HedbergOn Jan 24, 2018, at 12:33 PM, Mark Spano <cutandcover@...> wrote:What you are referring to is a company (Extreme Reach) who understands how this stuff works. Many of the networks and other distribution platforms simply do not. 29.97p delivery is a part of that world. Often we're not talking about "final broadcast masters". We're talking about delivery to taxi screens, in-store digital billboards, stuff like that. Of course you keep it 23.976p as much as you can, but often somebody down the chain wants something like 29.97p, so you have to comply.On Wed, Jan 24, 2018 at 12:24 PM, Jeff Hedberg <jeff@...> wrote:We deal with US broadcast 29.97(interlaced) by working at 23.98 (progressive) and adding 3:2 pulldown afterwards as mentioned by David.When the client wants a progressive video to post online, we give them the 23.98 master.Some of the distributors (Extreme Reach for example) will accept the 23.98 progressive file, and take care of adding the 3:2 conversion on their own.Our clients prefer this as they can check the masters on their computers 'without all those lines on the footage'.I haven't ever dealt with 29.97p delivery requirements. I will admit that if I saw that on a spec sheet I would assume that it was a typo. (I am also curious about who wants 29.97p for a final master)Jeff
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Jeff HedbergOn Jan 24, 2018, at 11:13 AM, Mark Spano cutandcover@... [Avid-L2] <Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com> wrote:One great reason for 24 to 29.97p is cross-platform delivery. So many delivery requirements these days are demanding progressive delivery so that there's no interlacing for streaming or web placement. It makes sense. What also does not make sense is that many of these requirements prohibit frame rates above 30, so a real 24 to 60 progressive pulldown is impossible. So you're stuck with 1:1:1:2 pulldown, which, yes, blows.On Wed, Jan 24, 2018 at 10:38 AM, David Ross speckydave@... [Avi d-L2] <Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com > wrote:On 24 January 2018 at 15:15, tod hoplist@... [ Avid-L2] <Avid-L2@yahoogroups. com> wrote:I master for 29.97p and 25p release, and I really hate 24p to 29.97p conversion (4:1 pulldown). So I hate this argument.
Hi Tod,Excuse my ignorance, but why would you need to convert 24p to 29.97p?If it was for broadcast, I would either conform to 23.98 and then add 3:2 pulldown, or standards-convert with a decent quality converter (e.g. Alchemist/Teranex) and go 59.94i that way. Either of those options look FAR better than the stuttering motion you get from "4:1 progressive pulldown" in my opinion. And if you don't like to use a standards converter because you're trying to keep the progressive look of 24p, then just avoid any kind of "Motion Compensated" or "Optical Flow" methods.Or is there some other reason for going to 29.97p?Cheers,David
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