This IS the Avid L2: 8/2/20

Saturday, August 8, 2020

[Avid-L2] test

please ignore

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Friday, August 7, 2020

[Avid-L2] OT - NATURAL BORN SEDUCERS

I've just released my documentary "Natural Born Seducers" on Vimeo On Demand.

This documentary explores the world of pick up and seduction, through the lives of two self-proclaimed masters in the art, Vince Kelvin and Arash Zepar Dibazar.

https://vimeo.com/ondemand/naturalbornseducers

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Wednesday, August 5, 2020

Re: [Avid-L2] 29.97 and HD / RANT

There has to be a video describing these frame rates and what they look like.

When I shoot a film, we discuss the deliverable. But usually it's 24P or 23.98. Except for Slow-mo where we shoot 120 fps. On the Canon C300 we shot 23.98

Paul Darrigo
CHULA - Citizens for a Humane Los Angeles
https://www.facebook.com/groups/773416409436730/
323-244-8020

On Wednesday, August 5, 2020, 3:48:49 PM PDT, David Baud <david.baud@gmail.com> wrote:

To me, one aspect that is missing from this conversation is the other reason to choose a specific frame rate other than for technical reasons.

Yes we have to deliver specific frame rates for specific mediums (network, streaming, theater, web, IMAX, gaming, etc…) but I believe they are still room for director/producer to decide to shoot one frame rate over the other because they want to give a certain look to their content.

Maybe the most common example is for cinematographers to shoot 23.976fps in the USA even so they know their project (documentary, film, etc…) will end up being watched at 59.94i fps on television… adding 3:2 pulldown will still give you the "feeling" from playing at 23.976fps when it actually is 29.97fps.

Another example is for gaming. I understand gamers want to feel the closeness to the actions. They want to feel being part of the actions. Creating a game at high frame rate and playing it back at 60fps will give you that feeling of having the action happening "right now" in front of your eyes… what some people call "soap opera" effect.

My other comments below:

On Aug 5, 2020, at 7:21 AM, hoplist <hoplist@hillmanncarr.com> wrote:

23.98p if you are attached to pull-down, or want to save 5% on storage, or for international delivery.

You are obviously talking from the perspective from someone in the USA

24.0p only for cinema, but this will be slowed to 23.98 for video delivery.

…or not if you are delivering for the web/internet… no more "old constraint" in the digital world…

29.97 for video. Period. This may be delivered interlaced, but don't count on it.

Like JB mentioned, I believe most networks still deliver an interlaced signal, no matter if you master progressive or not… still a progressive master will be higher quality no matter what happens down the road...

25.0p for video almost everywhere other than the US

Not true… look at a broadcast television system map in the world… https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Broadcast_television_systems

All North America, the Carribean and some South American countries are using the same frame rate than the USA

So if you say 24p, I know you mean 23.98p, unless you are shooting for cinema.
And you say 30p, I know you mean 29.97p.
If you say 25p, I know you mean it, and are working in a country that doesn't have this problem. ;)

I find your guessing a little confusing… but if it works for you great!… personally I prefer asking the question clearly from the start and make sure people understand the consequences of choosing a frame rate over another one than guessing what they mean…

Cheers,

David Baud

Colorist & Finishing Editor

david at kosmos-productions.com

Re: [Avid-L2] 29.97 and HD / RANT

To me, one aspect that is missing from this conversation is the other reason to choose a specific frame rate other than for technical reasons.

My other comments below:

On Aug 5, 2020, at 7:21 AM, hoplist <hoplist@hillmanncarr.com> wrote:

23.98p if you are attached to pull-down, or want to save 5% on storage, or for international delivery.

You are obviously talking from the perspective from someone in the USA

24.0p only for cinema, but this will be slowed to 23.98 for video delivery.

…or not if you are delivering for the web/internet… no more "old constraint" in the digital world…

29.97 for video. Period. This may be delivered interlaced, but don't count on it.

25.0p for video almost everywhere other than the US

Not true… look at a broadcast television system map in the world… https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Broadcast_television_systems

All North America, the Carribean and some South American countries are using the same frame rate than the USA

So if you say 24p, I know you mean 23.98p, unless you are shooting for cinema.
And you say 30p, I know you mean 29.97p.
If you say 25p, I know you mean it, and are working in a country that doesn't have this problem. ;)

Cheers,

David Baud

Colorist & Finishing Editor

david at kosmos-productions.com

Re: [Avid-L2] Nitris DX and Blackmagic Design Intensity Pro 4K on same machine?

Wow that's very clever.

On Wed, Aug 5, 2020 at 03:00 PM, Secret HQ wrote:

Nope. Just moved the bmd avid driver to a 'hold' folder. That's different from video desktop. I'm away from the machine and can't remember what it's called.

________________________
Greg Huson
Secret Headquarters, Inc

GK Huson, LLC

Greg (at) SecretHQ.com

www.SecretHQ.com

On Aug 5, 2020, at 14:43, John Moore <bigfish@pacbell.net> wrote:

If you removed the BMD drive, I'm assuming that you are referring to the Video Desktop Software, how did Resolve access the BMD extreme pro? I thought the Video Desktop was required?

On Wed, Aug 5, 2020 at 09:03 AM, Secret HQ wrote:

On my one of my Macs I used to haBe both a BMD extreme pro and A Nitris DX, however I removed the BMD driver. They worked great, but BMD was for Resolve and Nitirs was for Avid. I don't think you can have both sets of hardware running in MC. Maybe if you removed (moved to another folder temporarily) the driver you don't want? Not a recommended configuration.

Eventually I just got rid of the nitris, once we stopped printing to tape.

________________________
Greg Huson
Secret Headquarters, Inc

GK Huson, LLC

Greg (at) SecretHQ.com

www.SecretHQ.com

On Aug 5, 2020, at 08:35, kenton van natten <kenton.van.natten+AvidL2@gmail.com> wrote:

The Nitris DX at one of my client's had been having some issues, so just before the pandemic he bought a BMD Intensity Pro 4K and I was slated to install it for him, but then everything shut down and I haven't been back to his edit suite.

Last week, he needed to capture some SD stuff and he said the Nitris behaved fine and so he asked me today if I thought it would be possible to have both at the same time? ("just in case", he said).

I told him that the BMD card would do component in/out for SD captures, if needed, but he's reluctant to let the Nitris go.

I would be concerned about conflicts with drivers or whether the PCI slot needed for the BMD is the same as the Nitris and AFAIK there's no way to tell MC which hardware to use for output etc, it's either on or off.

Thoughts?

He's on PC if that matters.

--
kenton van natten, post-production mercenary

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Re: [Avid-L2] Nitris DX and Blackmagic Design Intensity Pro 4K on same machine?

Thanks, that makes perfect sense. That's pretty much the same advice I got on my post in the Avid Editors of Facebook.
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kenton van natten, post-production mercenary

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Re: [Avid-L2] 29.97 and HD / RANT

My comments below:

On Aug 4, 2020, at 10:23 PM, Joe McDonnell <ltr54@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
I have NEVER heard of 29.97i.

You must be young!😉

Before HD standards were introduced, I believe it was pretty common to refer to NTSC frame rate as 29.97i

Cheers,

David Baud

Colorist & Finishing Editor

david at kosmos-productions.com

Re: [Avid-L2] Nitris DX and Blackmagic Design Intensity Pro 4K on same machine?

Nope. Just moved the bmd avid driver to a 'hold' folder. That's different from video desktop. I'm away from the machine and can't remember what it's called.

________________________

Greg Huson

Secret Headquarters, Inc

GK Huson, LLC

Greg (at) SecretHQ.com

www.SecretHQ.com

On Aug 5, 2020, at 14:43, John Moore <bigfish@pacbell.net> wrote:

If you removed the BMD drive, I'm assuming that you are referring to the Video Desktop Software, how did Resolve access the BMD extreme pro? I thought the Video Desktop was required?

On Wed, Aug 5, 2020 at 09:03 AM, Secret HQ wrote:

On my one of my Macs I used to haBe both a BMD extreme pro and A Nitris DX, however I removed the BMD driver. They worked great, but BMD was for Resolve and Nitirs was for Avid. I don't think you can have both sets of hardware running in MC. Maybe if you removed (moved to another folder temporarily) the driver you don't want? Not a recommended configuration.

Eventually I just got rid of the nitris, once we stopped printing to tape.

________________________
Greg Huson
Secret Headquarters, Inc

GK Huson, LLC

Greg (at) SecretHQ.com

www.SecretHQ.com

On Aug 5, 2020, at 08:35, kenton van natten <kenton.van.natten+AvidL2@gmail.com> wrote:

The Nitris DX at one of my client's had been having some issues, so just before the pandemic he bought a BMD Intensity Pro 4K and I was slated to install it for him, but then everything shut down and I haven't been back to his edit suite.

Last week, he needed to capture some SD stuff and he said the Nitris behaved fine and so he asked me today if I thought it would be possible to have both at the same time? ("just in case", he said).

I told him that the BMD card would do component in/out for SD captures, if needed, but he's reluctant to let the Nitris go.

I would be concerned about conflicts with drivers or whether the PCI slot needed for the BMD is the same as the Nitris and AFAIK there's no way to tell MC which hardware to use for output etc, it's either on or off.

Thoughts?

He's on PC if that matters.

--
kenton van natten, post-production mercenary

Re: [Avid-L2] Nitris DX and Blackmagic Design Intensity Pro 4K on same machine?

[Edited Message Follows]

If you removed the BMD driver, I'm assuming that you are referring to the Video Desktop Software, how did Resolve access the BMD extreme pro? I thought the Video Desktop was required?

On Wed, Aug 5, 2020 at 09:03 AM, Secret HQ wrote:

On my one of my Macs I used to haBe both a BMD extreme pro and A Nitris DX, however I removed the BMD driver. They worked great, but BMD was for Resolve and Nitirs was for Avid. I don't think you can have both sets of hardware running in MC. Maybe if you removed (moved to another folder temporarily) the driver you don't want? Not a recommended configuration.

Eventually I just got rid of the nitris, once we stopped printing to tape.

________________________
Greg Huson
Secret Headquarters, Inc

GK Huson, LLC

Greg (at) SecretHQ.com

www.SecretHQ.com

On Aug 5, 2020, at 08:35, kenton van natten <kenton.van.natten+AvidL2@gmail.com> wrote:

The Nitris DX at one of my client's had been having some issues, so just before the pandemic he bought a BMD Intensity Pro 4K and I was slated to install it for him, but then everything shut down and I haven't been back to his edit suite.

Last week, he needed to capture some SD stuff and he said the Nitris behaved fine and so he asked me today if I thought it would be possible to have both at the same time? ("just in case", he said).

I told him that the BMD card would do component in/out for SD captures, if needed, but he's reluctant to let the Nitris go.

I would be concerned about conflicts with drivers or whether the PCI slot needed for the BMD is the same as the Nitris and AFAIK there's no way to tell MC which hardware to use for output etc, it's either on or off.

Thoughts?

He's on PC if that matters.

--
kenton van natten, post-production mercenary

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Re: [Avid-L2] Nitris DX and Blackmagic Design Intensity Pro 4K on same machine?

If you removed the BMD drive, I'm assuming that you are referring to the Video Desktop Software, how did Resolve access the BMD extreme pro? I thought the Video Desktop was required?

On Wed, Aug 5, 2020 at 09:03 AM, Secret HQ wrote:

On my one of my Macs I used to haBe both a BMD extreme pro and A Nitris DX, however I removed the BMD driver. They worked great, but BMD was for Resolve and Nitirs was for Avid. I don't think you can have both sets of hardware running in MC. Maybe if you removed (moved to another folder temporarily) the driver you don't want? Not a recommended configuration.

Eventually I just got rid of the nitris, once we stopped printing to tape.

________________________
Greg Huson
Secret Headquarters, Inc

GK Huson, LLC

Greg (at) SecretHQ.com

www.SecretHQ.com

On Aug 5, 2020, at 08:35, kenton van natten <kenton.van.natten+AvidL2@gmail.com> wrote:

The Nitris DX at one of my client's had been having some issues, so just before the pandemic he bought a BMD Intensity Pro 4K and I was slated to install it for him, but then everything shut down and I haven't been back to his edit suite.

Last week, he needed to capture some SD stuff and he said the Nitris behaved fine and so he asked me today if I thought it would be possible to have both at the same time? ("just in case", he said).

I told him that the BMD card would do component in/out for SD captures, if needed, but he's reluctant to let the Nitris go.

I would be concerned about conflicts with drivers or whether the PCI slot needed for the BMD is the same as the Nitris and AFAIK there's no way to tell MC which hardware to use for output etc, it's either on or off.

Thoughts?

He's on PC if that matters.

--
kenton van natten, post-production mercenary

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Re: [Avid-L2] 29.97 and HD / RANT

"Yes BUT, For broadcast, actual delivery files are almost always
59.94i. The footage may have been acquired as 29.97p (which looks great
IMO) but it will be delivered as 59.94i or, assuming the broadcaster is
broadcasting 1080i, it will be changed by them."

FYI all my delivery files have been 23.976 with the networks converting to 59.94i for the last 2 or 3 years. I think I had one exception where I did the conversion. When we do the New Years Eve special roll ins we deliver those at 59.94i to make it easier on the truck.

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Re: [Avid-L2] 29.97 and HD / RANT

All great comments. Being more on the camera side I can say 24fps or 23.98P in HD is pretty universal. You get the classic 100 year old strobe and jutter when panning but that's part of the film look. In the end 23.98 can be converted to just about any other frame rate without much issue.

The one gotcha I have seen dozens of times on the camera side is I mis-adjustsd shutter angle. Unlike a film camera in electronic acquisition you can turn the shutter off. This leads to weird motion artifacts. Just set The camera to 23.98 then 180 shutter angle or 1/48th exposure and you will get normal traditional lookIng footage.

This may seem like DP 101 but I have seen this basic setting screwed up So many times over the years.

TMcD

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Re: [Avid-L2] 29.97 and HD / RANT

And the case for 29.97p. (I promise, this is my last post on the topic)

If you are producing for US domestic video market, the most compatible format is 29.97p. It is the standard. Interlaced video is all but dead and what lingers of interlaced video is 100% compatible with 29.97p. Conversion from 24p to 30p is often unacceptable.

For international distribution, I concede that 30p to 25p may also be unacceptable, but it's not as bad as 24p to 30p, at least in theory. Dropping from 30 to 25 results in five 1/25th second skips, while converting from 24p to 30p is six 1/15th second stutters. I can't swear that the 30p to 25p drop is less problematic, but the math says it should be. It was interlacing that made NTSC to PAL conversion so difficult, not the difference in frame rates.

I concede that both conversions should be avoided, so you are always betting on the more important market.

There is one major argument for 24p we have overlooked. The economic one. The efficiency advantage is the real reason that 24p still exists. If 30p had been cheaper to shoot at any point, Hollywood would have converted, but 24p has always been, and still is, the cheapest viable option.

There are clearly times where 24p has the advantage, but going forward I don't think anyone should accept this as a given.

60p all the way baby! Or 50p. I'm not picky. That conversion should look okay in either direction.

You want cinematic stutter? Add it in post. ;)

Cheers,

tod

On Aug 5, 2020, at 12:22 PM, Mark B via groups.io <eatapc=me.com@groups.io> wrote:

Great summation, but allow me to elaborate on why I like 23.98 as the default. My argument for 23.98 is not that I'm attached to pulldown, it's that 23.98 is the most broadly compatible frame rate. A 23.98 final deliverable is widely accepted for both broadcast and web (and it looks great). Importantly, it can be converted without hassle (if with slight issues in some cases) to other frame rates when those requests come in after the fact. 29.97, if interlaced, is a problem for anything other than U.S. broadcast; 29.97 progressive is a problem for me if conversion to a slower frame rate is requested.

That last concern -- converting a 29.97 video to 24 or 25 fps -- is probably a non-problem for most editors, but I've had to deal with it many times in the past when working in NYC for a global ad agency: doing brand videos, case studies, pitch videos, some spots that were later run in movie theaters globally, and in one case some corporate videos shown on British Air flights. More recently as a freelancer, doing a few corporate videos for a global client, we got a request for 25 fps long after the project was finished. For that reason, I always recommend that directors shoot at 23.98 for the corporate videos I do. Creates fewer potential problem later. (And I never get pushback from the directors or DPs.) For editors who work primarily on other kinds of projects, 29.97 might be an excellent choice. -- Mark

Re: [Avid-L2] Nitris DX and Blackmagic Design Intensity Pro 4K on same machine?

I have a setup with both an Avid Mojo DX and a BMD card installed. The BMD card is in one PCIE slot and the host adaptor card for the DX in another slot.

With the Mojo DX switched off during computer boot-up, The BMD card works fine with Resolve or MC. If you look carefully at the top of the screen when MC loads, you'll see it detects the BMD card will happily use it as the external hardware.

With the Mojo switched on whilst the workstation boots, then MC will see that in preference to the BMD card during load-up. You cannot choose to switch between the BMD and the Mojo DX. The only way to do this (after Windows boot) would be to disable the drivers for the selected device, thus making it invisible to MC, . Avid will always use the Mojo if it's there.

I'm assuming the Nitris DX would behave in a similar fashion.

On 05/08/2020 16:35, kenton van natten via groups.io wrote:

The Nitris DX at one of my client's had been having some issues, so just before the pandemic he bought a BMD Intensity Pro 4K and I was slated to install it for him, but then everything shut down and I haven't been back to his edit suite.

Last week, he needed to capture some SD stuff and he said the Nitris behaved fine and so he asked me today if I thought it would be possible to have both at the same time? ("just in case", he said).

I told him that the BMD card would do component in/out for SD captures, if needed, but he's reluctant to let the Nitris go.

I would be concerned about conflicts with drivers or whether the PCI slot needed for the BMD is the same as the Nitris and AFAIK there's no way to tell MC which hardware to use for output etc, it's either on or off.

Thoughts?

He's on PC if that matters.

--
kenton van natten, post-production mercenary

Re: [Avid-L2] 29.97 and HD / RANT

Great summation, but allow me to elaborate on why I like 23.98 as the default. My argument for 23.98 is not that I'm attached to pulldown, it's that 23.98 is the most broadly compatible frame rate. A 23.98 final deliverable is widely accepted for both broadcast and web (and it looks great). Importantly, it can be converted without hassle (if with slight issues in some cases) to other frame rates when those requests come in after the fact. 29.97, if interlaced, is a problem for anything other than U.S. broadcast; 29.97 progressive is a problem for me if conversion to a slower frame rate is requested.

That last concern -- converting a 29.97 video to 24 or 25 fps -- is probably a non-problem for most editors, but I've had to deal with it many times in the past when working in NYC for a global ad agency: doing brand videos, case studies, pitch videos, some spots that were later run in movie theaters globally, and in one case some corporate videos shown on British Air flights. More recently as a freelancer, doing a few corporate videos for a global client, we got a request for 25 fps long after the project was finished. For that reason, I always recommend that directors shoot at 23.98 for the corporate videos I do. Creates fewer potential problem later. (And I never get pushback from the directors or DPs.) For editors who work primarily on other kinds of projects, 29.97 might be an excellent choice. -- Mark

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Re: [Avid-L2] Nitris DX and Blackmagic Design Intensity Pro 4K on same machine?

On my one of my Macs I used to haBe both a BMD extreme pro and A Nitris DX, however I removed the BMD driver. They worked great, but BMD was for Resolve and Nitirs was for Avid. I don't think you can have both sets of hardware running in MC. Maybe if you removed (moved to another folder temporarily) the driver you don't want? Not a recommended configuration.

Eventually I just got rid of the nitris, once we stopped printing to tape.

________________________

Greg Huson

Secret Headquarters, Inc

GK Huson, LLC

Greg (at) SecretHQ.com

www.SecretHQ.com

On Aug 5, 2020, at 08:35, kenton van natten <kenton.van.natten+AvidL2@gmail.com> wrote:

The Nitris DX at one of my client's had been having some issues, so just before the pandemic he bought a BMD Intensity Pro 4K and I was slated to install it for him, but then everything shut down and I haven't been back to his edit suite.

Last week, he needed to capture some SD stuff and he said the Nitris behaved fine and so he asked me today if I thought it would be possible to have both at the same time? ("just in case", he said).

I told him that the BMD card would do component in/out for SD captures, if needed, but he's reluctant to let the Nitris go.

I would be concerned about conflicts with drivers or whether the PCI slot needed for the BMD is the same as the Nitris and AFAIK there's no way to tell MC which hardware to use for output etc, it's either on or off.

Thoughts?

He's on PC if that matters.

--
kenton van natten, post-production mercenary

[Avid-L2] Nitris DX and Blackmagic Design Intensity Pro 4K on same machine?

The Nitris DX at one of my client's had been having some issues, so just before the pandemic he bought a BMD Intensity Pro 4K and I was slated to install it for him, but then everything shut down and I haven't been back to his edit suite.

Last week, he needed to capture some SD stuff and he said the Nitris behaved fine and so he asked me today if I thought it would be possible to have both at the same time? ("just in case", he said).

I told him that the BMD card would do component in/out for SD captures, if needed, but he's reluctant to let the Nitris go.

I would be concerned about conflicts with drivers or whether the PCI slot needed for the BMD is the same as the Nitris and AFAIK there's no way to tell MC which hardware to use for output etc, it's either on or off.

Thoughts?

He's on PC if that matters.

--
kenton van natten, post-production mercenary

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This IS the Avid L2

Saturday, August 8, 2020

[Avid-L2] test

Friday, August 7, 2020

[Avid-L2] OT - NATURAL BORN SEDUCERS

Wednesday, August 5, 2020

Re: [Avid-L2] 29.97 and HD / RANT

Re: [Avid-L2] 29.97 and HD / RANT

Re: [Avid-L2] Nitris DX and Blackmagic Design Intensity Pro 4K on same machine?

Re: [Avid-L2] Nitris DX and Blackmagic Design Intensity Pro 4K on same machine?

Re: [Avid-L2] 29.97 and HD / RANT

Re: [Avid-L2] Nitris DX and Blackmagic Design Intensity Pro 4K on same machine?

Re: [Avid-L2] Nitris DX and Blackmagic Design Intensity Pro 4K on same machine?

Re: [Avid-L2] Nitris DX and Blackmagic Design Intensity Pro 4K on same machine?

Re: [Avid-L2] 29.97 and HD / RANT

Re: [Avid-L2] 29.97 and HD / RANT

Re: [Avid-L2] 29.97 and HD / RANT

Re: [Avid-L2] Nitris DX and Blackmagic Design Intensity Pro 4K on same machine?

Re: [Avid-L2] 29.97 and HD / RANT

Re: [Avid-L2] Nitris DX and Blackmagic Design Intensity Pro 4K on same machine?

[Avid-L2] Nitris DX and Blackmagic Design Intensity Pro 4K on same machine?

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