Re: [Avid-L2] IMF DolbyVision Metadata version mismatch in Resolve?

On Sat, Feb 20, 2021 at 10:23 AM, David Baud wrote:

Can you share a screen grab of your Project settings for Color Management in DaVinci Resolve?

 

Unless the studio have a specific requirements for this project, most will ask you to make an IMF master that is SMPTE 2084 (PQ) compliant but limit your color space to P3-D65. What it means is right now there is no HDR monitors capable to show you the full Rec. 2020 color space. In order to prevent any unwanted gamma excursion, you are limiting to the smaller P3 color space.

 

David Baud

Colorist & Finishing Editor

david at kosmos-productions.com

With the Mastering Display set to P3 I don't get an error:




If I set Mastering Display to Rec 2020 I get the error after toggling between custom metadata, of which there is none, and embedded metadata in the DolbyVision Tab.


This is the error it displays:



 I am running with separate color space and gamma checked because during my HDR IMF onboarding for Netflix without that checked and set to P3 and ST 2084 1000 Nits I would end up with approx half video level when exporting an IMF.  Netflix Tech support gave me a tutorial video that showed I need to use separate color space and gamma to overcome what appears to be a bug in Resolve.  Here is a link Netflix Tech gave me to guide in setting up the project.  Here is a video
I'm not sure when separating the color space and gamma what difference setting the gamma to 2084 or 2084 1000 Nits does.  I see no change in output to my HDR LG OLED and my Target Display PVM-2541 Sony.  I'm not really clear on what setting the timeline color space and gamma does to the actual video essence.  Is it correct that setting the timeline color space and gamma tell the rest of the Resolve color path how to transform the signal to other target color spaces and gamma.  If I see no change when togging from gamma 2084 to 2084-1000 Nits is that because there are no color transforms in the rest of the food chain?  At it's core I'm wondering what setting the timeline color space and gamma does to image processing.

 

On Feb 20, 2021, at 2:21 AM, John Moore <bigfish@pacbell.net> wrote:

I know this is an Avid list but many of you are more versed than I am in the world of Resolve.  I've emailed my Resolve HDR classmates with this but thought maybe someone here might have some insight.  The need to deal with DolbyVision, IMFs and the ever changing HDR landscape has me looking into what's really going on under the hood.  Here's what I sent to my HDR class:

 

Taking an out of house IMF which I imported the embedded DolbyVision metadata from the IMF into a Resolve 16.2.7 project.  The IMF file is "BethStelling_GirlDaddy_DolVis40-rec2020pq_3840x2160_23976_16ch-ENG_200903".  I have set the mastering display setting in the project to Rec 2020 D-65 1000 nits but I intermittently get this error message:

 

<1613811284928blob.jpg>

 

 

If however I set the mastering display setting to P3 D-65 1000 Nits I don't seem to get this error popping up.  I looked through the IMF .xml files to see if I could find some text that would confirm what the dolbyvision metadata really is.  The file name would imply the DolbyVision 4.0 at Rec 2020PQ but that causes the above error message.  It would sure be helpful if Resolve would just indicate what the DolbyVision Metadata is to alleviate all this unnecessary guess work.  The error seems to only pop up when I switch from custom metadata, of which there is none, to embedded metadata but it doesn't happen every time I switch.  Is there a way to visually parse through the .xml files in the IMF to find some English text that will describe what the specs of the DolbyVision metadata is in the IMF?

Re: [Avid-L2] IMF DolbyVision Metadata version mismatch in Resolve?

[Edited Message Follows]

I was taught at HDR class to set the hdr ref monitor to Rec 2020 for grading then in the end limit to P3 to meet Netflix delivery spec.  HBO Max and others seem to want Rec 2020.  The Netflix choice was because there is too much difference in monitor display in Rec 2020 because, as has been pointed out, no monitor really achieves true Rec 2020 so by pushing the display limits there are a lot of difference in HDR Rec 2020 ref monitor image between the various ref monitors.

I got some info from a contact I have at Dolby that confirms some of the info in this thread regarding how to check the DV metadata:
"You can check the embedded metadata in the IMF using the Dolby Vision Professional Tools which comes with the Dolby Vision annual license. You can also check it on a system like MTI Cortex or Colorfront Transkoder.

 The images may be rendered in Rec2020 but may have been graded/mastered using a P3 reference display. This is common in workflows where the colorist prefers to work in P3 but has to deliver Rec2020 to the studio/client."

Here is a bug that might explain what I'm seeing.  This was told to me by a different facility that has mastered several of our HDR projects.  I think this is probably what happened.  The facility that created the IMF I'm dealing with now was new to HDR workflow from the Resolve side.

"..., if you make an IMF out of Resolve with your output colorspace at Rec 2020 and limit your gamut to P3, the Dolby metadata it embeds in the IMF incorrectly says that the media is encoded with P3 color primaries (which will cause a major color shift) even though the mastering display is correctly labelled as Rec 2020. It does not do this when outputting a DoVi XML. Creating the P3 limited output first, and then making the IMF from it gets both the image data and embedded metadata correct (albeit with a bunch of extra steps)."

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Re: [Avid-L2] IMF DolbyVision Metadata version mismatch in Resolve?

I was taught at HDR class to set the hdr ref monitor to Rec 2020 for grading then in the end limit to P3 to meet Netflix delivery spec.  HBO Max and others seem to want Rec 2020.  The Netflix choice was because there is too much difference in monitor display in Rec 2020 because, as has been pointed out, no monitor really achieves true Rec 2020 so by pushing the display limits there are a lot of difference in HDR Rec 2020 ref monitor image between the various ref monitors.

I got some info from a contact I have at Dolby that confirms some of the info in this thread regarding how to check the DV metadata:
"You can check the embedded metadata in the IMF using the Dolby Vision Professional Tools which comes with the Dolby Vision annual license. You can also check it on a system like MTI Cortex or Colorfront Transkoder.

 The images may be rendered in Rec2020 but may have been graded/mastered using a P3 reference display. This is common in workflows where the colorist prefers to work in P3 but has to deliver Rec2020 to the studio/client."

Here is a bug that might explain what I'm seeing.  This was told to me by a different facility that has master several of our HDR projects.  I think this is probably what happened.  The facility that created the IMF I'm dealing with now was new to HDR workflow from the Resolve side.

"..., if you make an IMF out of Resolve with your output colorspace at Rec 2020 and limit your gamut to P3, the Dolby metadata it embeds in the IMF incorrectly says that the media is encoded with P3 color primaries (which will cause a major color shift) even though the mastering display is correctly labelled as Rec 2020. It does not do this when outputting a DoVi XML. Creating the P3 limited output first, and then making the IMF from it gets both the image data and embedded metadata correct (albeit with a bunch of extra steps)."

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Re: [Avid-L2] IMF DolbyVision Metadata version mismatch in Resolve?

Can you share a screen grab of your Project settings for Color Management in DaVinci Resolve?

Unless the studio have a specific requirements for this project, most will ask you to make an IMF master that is SMPTE 2084 (PQ) compliant but limit your color space to P3-D65. What it means is right now there is no HDR monitors capable to show you the full Rec. 2020 color space. In order to prevent any unwanted gamma excursion, you are limiting to the smaller P3 color space.

David Baud

Colorist & Finishing Editor

david at kosmos-productions.com

On Feb 20, 2021, at 2:21 AM, John Moore <bigfish@pacbell.net> wrote:

I know this is an Avid list but many of you are more versed than I am in the world of Resolve.  I've emailed my Resolve HDR classmates with this but thought maybe someone here might have some insight.  The need to deal with DolbyVision, IMFs and the ever changing HDR landscape has me looking into what's really going on under the hood.  Here's what I sent to my HDR class:

Taking an out of house IMF which I imported the embedded DolbyVision metadata from the IMF into a Resolve 16.2.7 project.  The IMF file is "BethStelling_GirlDaddy_DolVis40-rec2020pq_3840x2160_23976_16ch-ENG_200903".  I have set the mastering display setting in the project to Rec 2020 D-65 1000 nits but I intermittently get this error message:

<1613811284928blob.jpg>

If however I set the mastering display setting to P3 D-65 1000 Nits I don't seem to get this error popping up.  I looked through the IMF .xml files to see if I could find some text that would confirm what the dolbyvision metadata really is.  The file name would imply the DolbyVision 4.0 at Rec 2020PQ but that causes the above error message.  It would sure be helpful if Resolve would just indicate what the DolbyVision Metadata is to alleviate all this unnecessary guess work.  The error seems to only pop up when I switch from custom metadata, of which there is none, to embedded metadata but it doesn't happen every time I switch.  Is there a way to visually parse through the .xml files in the IMF to find some English text that will describe what the specs of the DolbyVision metadata is in the IMF?

Re: [Avid-L2] IMF DolbyVision Metadata version mismatch in Resolve?

Oh the file container can be set to Rec2020 but the colors should be P3 legal. 

DQS

On Feb 20, 2021, at 1:19 PM, Gowanus Canal via groups.io <gowanuscanalstinks=gmail.com@groups.io> wrote:

Currently, Dolby recommends P3 legal for color gamut and for display settings as Rec2020 is not feasible with current display technology (most are only 70%-80%)

Open the XML. There should be a section that will indicate the mastering display settings. 

DQS

On Feb 20, 2021, at 12:04 PM, Mark Spano <cutandcover@gmail.com> wrote:



Hi John,

I don't know much about this other than what I have been reading (still haven't punched through to Dolby Vision land), but isn't this what the Dolby Vision toolset is supposed to do? Specifically, I remember hearing about Metafier as a way to validate Dolby Vision XMLs, giving a readout of what's there and confirming it's correct. I would look into the DV Professional toolset to see if that can help you.

I agree that Resolve should really have more information and a more flexible way to examine and edit metadata, as it's something that seems to need to happen fairly frequently.

On Sat, Feb 20, 2021 at 4:21 AM John Moore <bigfish@pacbell.net> wrote:

I know this is an Avid list but many of you are more versed than I am in the world of Resolve.  I've emailed my Resolve HDR classmates with this but thought maybe someone here might have some insight.  The need to deal with DolbyVision, IMFs and the ever changing HDR landscape has me looking into what's really going on under the hood.  Here's what I sent to my HDR class:

Taking an out of house IMF which I imported the embedded DolbyVision metadata from the IMF into a Resolve 16.2.7 project.  The IMF file is "BethStelling_GirlDaddy_DolVis40-rec2020pq_3840x2160_23976_16ch-ENG_200903".  I have set the mastering display setting in the project to Rec 2020 D-65 1000 nits but I intermittently get this error message:

<1613811284928blob.jpg>

If however I set the mastering display setting to P3 D-65 1000 Nits I don't seem to get this error popping up.  I looked through the IMF .xml files to see if I could find some text that would confirm what the dolbyvision metadata really is.  The file name would imply the DolbyVision 4.0 at Rec 2020PQ but that causes the above error message.  It would sure be helpful if Resolve would just indicate what the DolbyVision Metadata is to alleviate all this unnecessary guess work.  The error seems to only pop up when I switch from custom metadata, of which there is none, to embedded metadata but it doesn't happen every time I switch.  Is there a way to visually parse through the .xml files in the IMF to find some English text that will describe what the specs of the DolbyVision metadata is in the IMF?

John Moore Barking Trout Productions Studio City, CA bigfish@pacbell.net

Re: [Avid-L2] IMF DolbyVision Metadata version mismatch in Resolve?

Currently, Dolby recommends P3 legal for color gamut and for display settings as Rec2020 is not feasible with current display technology (most are only 70%-80%)

Open the XML. There should be a section that will indicate the mastering display settings. 

DQS

On Feb 20, 2021, at 12:04 PM, Mark Spano <cutandcover@gmail.com> wrote:



Hi John,

I don't know much about this other than what I have been reading (still haven't punched through to Dolby Vision land), but isn't this what the Dolby Vision toolset is supposed to do? Specifically, I remember hearing about Metafier as a way to validate Dolby Vision XMLs, giving a readout of what's there and confirming it's correct. I would look into the DV Professional toolset to see if that can help you.

I agree that Resolve should really have more information and a more flexible way to examine and edit metadata, as it's something that seems to need to happen fairly frequently.

On Sat, Feb 20, 2021 at 4:21 AM John Moore <bigfish@pacbell.net> wrote:

I know this is an Avid list but many of you are more versed than I am in the world of Resolve.  I've emailed my Resolve HDR classmates with this but thought maybe someone here might have some insight.  The need to deal with DolbyVision, IMFs and the ever changing HDR landscape has me looking into what's really going on under the hood.  Here's what I sent to my HDR class:

Taking an out of house IMF which I imported the embedded DolbyVision metadata from the IMF into a Resolve 16.2.7 project.  The IMF file is "BethStelling_GirlDaddy_DolVis40-rec2020pq_3840x2160_23976_16ch-ENG_200903".  I have set the mastering display setting in the project to Rec 2020 D-65 1000 nits but I intermittently get this error message:

<1613811284928blob.jpg>

If however I set the mastering display setting to P3 D-65 1000 Nits I don't seem to get this error popping up.  I looked through the IMF .xml files to see if I could find some text that would confirm what the dolbyvision metadata really is.  The file name would imply the DolbyVision 4.0 at Rec 2020PQ but that causes the above error message.  It would sure be helpful if Resolve would just indicate what the DolbyVision Metadata is to alleviate all this unnecessary guess work.  The error seems to only pop up when I switch from custom metadata, of which there is none, to embedded metadata but it doesn't happen every time I switch.  Is there a way to visually parse through the .xml files in the IMF to find some English text that will describe what the specs of the DolbyVision metadata is in the IMF?

John Moore Barking Trout Productions Studio City, CA bigfish@pacbell.net

Re: [Avid-L2] IMF DolbyVision Metadata version mismatch in Resolve?

Hi John,

I don't know much about this other than what I have been reading (still haven't punched through to Dolby Vision land), but isn't this what the Dolby Vision toolset is supposed to do? Specifically, I remember hearing about Metafier as a way to validate Dolby Vision XMLs, giving a readout of what's there and confirming it's correct. I would look into the DV Professional toolset to see if that can help you.

I agree that Resolve should really have more information and a more flexible way to examine and edit metadata, as it's something that seems to need to happen fairly frequently.

On Sat, Feb 20, 2021 at 4:21 AM John Moore <bigfish@pacbell.net> wrote:

I know this is an Avid list but many of you are more versed than I am in the world of Resolve.  I've emailed my Resolve HDR classmates with this but thought maybe someone here might have some insight.  The need to deal with DolbyVision, IMFs and the ever changing HDR landscape has me looking into what's really going on under the hood.  Here's what I sent to my HDR class:

Taking an out of house IMF which I imported the embedded DolbyVision metadata from the IMF into a Resolve 16.2.7 project.  The IMF file is "BethStelling_GirlDaddy_DolVis40-rec2020pq_3840x2160_23976_16ch-ENG_200903".  I have set the mastering display setting in the project to Rec 2020 D-65 1000 nits but I intermittently get this error message:

If however I set the mastering display setting to P3 D-65 1000 Nits I don't seem to get this error popping up.  I looked through the IMF .xml files to see if I could find some text that would confirm what the dolbyvision metadata really is.  The file name would imply the DolbyVision 4.0 at Rec 2020PQ but that causes the above error message.  It would sure be helpful if Resolve would just indicate what the DolbyVision Metadata is to alleviate all this unnecessary guess work.  The error seems to only pop up when I switch from custom metadata, of which there is none, to embedded metadata but it doesn't happen every time I switch.  Is there a way to visually parse through the .xml files in the IMF to find some English text that will describe what the specs of the DolbyVision metadata is in the IMF?

John Moore Barking Trout Productions Studio City, CA bigfish@pacbell.net

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[Avid-L2] IMF DolbyVision Metadata version mismatch in Resolve?

I know this is an Avid list but many of you are more versed than I am in the world of Resolve.  I've emailed my Resolve HDR classmates with this but thought maybe someone here might have some insight.  The need to deal with DolbyVision, IMFs and the ever changing HDR landscape has me looking into what's really going on under the hood.  Here's what I sent to my HDR class:

Taking an out of house IMF which I imported the embedded DolbyVision metadata from the IMF into a Resolve 16.2.7 project.  The IMF file is "BethStelling_GirlDaddy_DolVis40-rec2020pq_3840x2160_23976_16ch-ENG_200903".  I have set the mastering display setting in the project to Rec 2020 D-65 1000 nits but I intermittently get this error message:

If however I set the mastering display setting to P3 D-65 1000 Nits I don't seem to get this error popping up.  I looked through the IMF .xml files to see if I could find some text that would confirm what the dolbyvision metadata really is.  The file name would imply the DolbyVision 4.0 at Rec 2020PQ but that causes the above error message.  It would sure be helpful if Resolve would just indicate what the DolbyVision Metadata is to alleviate all this unnecessary guess work.  The error seems to only pop up when I switch from custom metadata, of which there is none, to embedded metadata but it doesn't happen every time I switch.  Is there a way to visually parse through the .xml files in the IMF to find some English text that will describe what the specs of the DolbyVision metadata is in the IMF?

John Moore Barking Trout Productions Studio City, CA bigfish@pacbell.net

Re: [Avid-L2] Animating Still Images within MC

Is this version 5.6.3 available to all?

I have the same issue, running MC 18.9.

On Feb 19, 2021, at 10:54 AM, oklaroman . <oklaroman@gmail.com> wrote:

As a second follow-up: Marianna contacted Peter at BorisFX, and he was able to provide a final (and unsupported) RED version 5.6.3, which was put together for legacy projects. So far it works great, the UI is functional, and it renders without crashing. Thanks Marianna and Peter!

On Wed, Feb 17, 2021 at 5:04 PM oklaroman . via groups.io <oklaroman=gmail.com@groups.io> wrote:

As an update to this chain, Marianna reached out to help and contacted BFX. Long story short, BCC Title Studio is pretty much the same UI as the old Boris RED, minus the ability to work with multiple tracks in the MC timeline. So it looks like Title Studio is a good replacement for RED for image manipulation. I'm going to try it out. Thanks again for the input!

On Thu, Feb 11, 2021 at 8:37 AM oklaroman . via groups.io <oklaroman=gmail.com@groups.io> wrote:

Keld, this has not been my experience. I can apply the effect to a clip, but MC crashes when I launch the UI. What version of MC/RED are you using? I'm on Win10 with RED v5.6 and MC 21.2 (but this has been the case for the past several MC versions). I would really like to get it working again, so I may need to do more troubleshooting. Thanks!

On Thu, Feb 11, 2021 at 2:40 AM Keld von Eyben <keld@voneyben.dk> wrote:

Boris RED now works better than ever. After development stopped, it did have some crashing in certain situations. But since MC was recoded to 64bit, RED has been flying smoothly without crashes (on Win10, that is). I use it every day, especially because it can access six tracks in the MC timeline with a single effect.
BR Keld

Sent from KvE's iPad

Chip Hess

Re: [Avid-L2] Animating Still Images within MC

As a second follow-up: Marianna contacted Peter at BorisFX, and he was able to provide a final (and unsupported) RED version 5.6.3, which was put together for legacy projects. So far it works great, the UI is functional, and it renders without crashing. Thanks Marianna and Peter!

On Wed, Feb 17, 2021 at 5:04 PM oklaroman . via groups.io <oklaroman=gmail.com@groups.io> wrote:

As an update to this chain, Marianna reached out to help and contacted BFX. Long story short, BCC Title Studio is pretty much the same UI as the old Boris RED, minus the ability to work with multiple tracks in the MC timeline. So it looks like Title Studio is a good replacement for RED for image manipulation. I'm going to try it out. Thanks again for the input!

On Thu, Feb 11, 2021 at 8:37 AM oklaroman . via groups.io <oklaroman=gmail.com@groups.io> wrote:

Keld, this has not been my experience. I can apply the effect to a clip, but MC crashes when I launch the UI. What version of MC/RED are you using? I'm on Win10 with RED v5.6 and MC 21.2 (but this has been the case for the past several MC versions). I would really like to get it working again, so I may need to do more troubleshooting. Thanks!

On Thu, Feb 11, 2021 at 2:40 AM Keld von Eyben <keld@voneyben.dk> wrote:

Boris RED now works better than ever. After development stopped, it did have some crashing in certain situations. But since MC was recoded to 64bit, RED has been flying smoothly without crashes (on Win10, that is). I use it every day, especially because it can access six tracks in the MC timeline with a single effect.
BR Keld

Sent from KvE's iPad

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Re: [Avid-L2] Animating Still Images within MC

As an update to this chain, Marianna reached out to help and contacted BFX. Long story short, BCC Title Studio is pretty much the same UI as the old Boris RED, minus the ability to work with multiple tracks in the MC timeline. So it looks like Title Studio is a good replacement for RED for image manipulation. I'm going to try it out. Thanks again for the input!

On Thu, Feb 11, 2021 at 8:37 AM oklaroman . via groups.io <oklaroman=gmail.com@groups.io> wrote:

Keld, this has not been my experience. I can apply the effect to a clip, but MC crashes when I launch the UI. What version of MC/RED are you using? I'm on Win10 with RED v5.6 and MC 21.2 (but this has been the case for the past several MC versions). I would really like to get it working again, so I may need to do more troubleshooting. Thanks!

On Thu, Feb 11, 2021 at 2:40 AM Keld von Eyben <keld@voneyben.dk> wrote:

Boris RED now works better than ever. After development stopped, it did have some crashing in certain situations. But since MC was recoded to 64bit, RED has been flying smoothly without crashes (on Win10, that is). I use it every day, especially because it can access six tracks in the MC timeline with a single effect.
BR Keld

Sent from KvE's iPad

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