Re: [Avid-L2] finishing for film out

But that doesn't answer his question.

But the answer is pull up and pull down. All the gear we use in the US has been developed around monitoring at 29.97. So if you are working at 24/30 and you need to output a DVD it has to get pulled down to 23.98/29.97. Ok, no big deal you say, I can deal with that. But now you need to send some materials off for foley. And to the composer. And to sound design. They will probably be working at 29.97. And there is a good chance that what you get back will be pulled down. So now you have to pull that back up for your off-line system. And then when you get to the mix there is a good chance that they will want to mix at a pulled down rate. So the sound will have to get pulled up when they do the film print anyway. And then there is marketing. And preview screenings. And ADR and more sound design and more music. And don't forget dailies. And ETC. All done with pulled down materials. So it ends up that other than production, you are the only one working at a true 24. And chances are that most the time you have your system set up to pull down on output for monitoring. So what's the point?

And from actual experience of having done shows both ways, shot at 24 and shot at 23.98, I would have to say that shooting at 23.98 is positively the easier, more time efficient, and less expensive post workflow of the two. Pull up, pull down. Materials drifting out of sync. It's just frustrating.

So if you shoot at 23.98. Off-line at 23.98. Compose, sound design, ADR, foley, mix, make vfx, color grade, do your credit roll, make marketing materials, etc. all at 23.98/29.97. Then it becomes so much easier to keep everything in sync. And you don't have to track what has pull down and what has or has not been pulled up. Then the very last step of the whole process, if you are going to actually print film, is to apply a pull up at the very end. Just once. And it's done. It is just so much more simple and less expensive. There are fewer mistakes. Less time wasted fixing mistakes. Less money spent fixing mistakes. And no one in the audience will ever know.

The one place to keep an eye on these days it the VFX department. There is a tendency there to round the frame rate to 24. Make sure that they understand that all the ref QTs and final materials will need to be delivered at 23.976. Yes, there is a good chance that you will need to be that specific as to call it out as 23.976 as opposed to using the more common term of 23.98.

And just to set your expectations, the trailer house cutting the off-line of the trailer, will almost assuredly work in a 29.97 base project. I don't know why. And it will baffle you. Because you know that the version of the software they are using supports 23.98 projects. But that will probably happen.

Jay

On May 1, 2012, at 10:45 AM, Greg Huson wrote:

> You could start by typing Jay's name into IMDB. ;-)
>
> ________________________
> Greg Huson
> Secret Headquarters, Inc
> Greg (at) SecretHQ.com
> www.SecretHQ.com
> DigitalServicsStation.com
>
> On May 1, 2012, at 8:01 AM, Jeff Hedberg <jeff@unioneditorial.com> wrote:
>
>> Jay, thanks for the feedback.
>>
>> Without sounding like I'm questioning the answer or you - I want to understand 'why'… (I can be a pain that way).
>> If the answer is 'because that's the way it's done' I can accept that...
>>
>> But any web references I can look at to help me explain to the production company why they indeed DON'T want to shoot at 24 - would be SUPER helpful.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Jeff
>>
>> ------------------
>> Jeff Hedberg
>> Union Editorial
>> 575 Broadway
>> 6th floor
>> New York, NY 10012
>>
>> 212-863-3030
>>
>> On Apr 30, 2012, at 5:35 PM, Jay Mahavier wrote:
>>
>>> shoot at 23.98. post at 23.98. mix at 23.98. The very last step is doing a pull up if you are going to print film.
>>>
>>> Jay
>>>
>>> On Apr 30, 2012, at 3:58 PM, Jeff Hedberg wrote:
>>>
>>>> I've spent so long finishing for broadcast that I don't know the answer to this one…
>>>>
>>>> Movie filming with Red camera.
>>>> Rough cutting in Avid.
>>>> Finishing for film output, as well as eventual DVD.
>>>>
>>>> Should production company shoot at 24F (not 23.98) - we run Avid at 24 1080 project (not 23.98) - and prepare EDLs as always?
>>>> (like I said, I'm rusty for outputting to film at end)
>>>> What do you do about people wanting DVDs of work in progress? Does the 24fps not kill DVD making like I expect it to?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Anything I'm missing?
>>>> (perhaps any sound gotchas I should know about?)
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Jeff
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ------------------
>>>> Jeff Hedberg
>>>> Union Editorial
>>>> 575 Broadway
>>>> 6th floor
>>>> New York, NY 10012
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>
>>>
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