Definitely not missing the point here. I know there will be no brickwall limiter. That's why I said "<whatever the new version of brickwall limiter is>", because it's not that, it's something else. A new loudness normalizer. Something like this:
http://www.dolby.com/us/en/professional/hardware/broadcast/broadcast-file-based/dp600.html
If it's up to broadcasters to mend the situation, they'll surely implement tools like this. As well they should. And I was not talking about making stuff louder than the others - hence why I said "figure out how to get the best sounding stuff". Best sounding in my mind never equals loudest. Best sounding is just that. It's clear it's a new paradigm for many audio engineers to wrap their heads around, because most have been trained and have the idea ingrained that they must get it as loud as possible to cut through, sacrificing better sound. Now I'm trying to wean them off that idea and making them evaluate their stuff by quality and dynamics first, then spec. It's working, slowly but surely.
The sooner everyone gets on board with compliance, the better all the mixes will sound - that's (I believe) both of our points. A lot of my mixers have complained that hitting the (-24 over here) spec is hurting their mixes when heard on air. I'm telling them that they need to work within that system and come up with a way that sounds good. It does not help as well that most broadcasters are far too lenient on the -24 spec, and for at least the slightly foreseeable future, loudness compliant spots are getting killed by other stuff passing through the cracks. My point earlier is more about this transition period - if we can make spots that sound great, hit the spec, and play well with other airing stuff that clearly doesn't, then we win in the short and long run.
--- In Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com, "bouke" <bouke@...> wrote:
>
> Mark,
> You totally missed the point.
> There will be no brickwall involved anymore if you deliver up to specs. And
> the beaty is, you don't need any compression to stand up to the competition.
> The loudness idea is about perceived loudness, so there is not anything you
> can do to be 'louder' than the others.
> IOW, you can use a dramatic dynamic range (people are not really sensitive
> for short peaks, so they don't count very much), and it will be broadcasted
> exactly as you made it.
>
> Bouke
>
> VideoToolShed
> van Oldenbarneveltstraat 33
> 6512 AS NIJMEGEN
> The Netherlands
> +31 24 3553311
> www.videotoolshed.com
> For large files:
> http://dropbox.yousendit.com/BoukeVahl998172
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Mark Spano" <cutandcover@...>
> To: <Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Thursday, December 15, 2011 10:31 PM
> Subject: [Avid-L2] Re: Anyone made a GXF (SMPTE RDD 14-2007) file?
>
>
> You would think, but when that started happening in analog world, we all
> freaked out when we saw and heard what the networks did to our spots...
>
> I've been spearheading making sure all of my mixers get a head start at
> compliance with the ITU spec. If they can hit the spec, then they'll start
> to figure out how to get the best sounding stuff through the broadcasters'
> <whatever the new version of brickwall limiter is>.
>
>
> --- In Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com, "blafarm" <blafarm@> wrote:
> >
> > Thanks for the links.
> >
> > And, this crossed my path last night:
> > http://www.cnn.com/2011/12/13/us/fcc-loud-commercials/index.html
> >
> > Seems the burden of equalizing levels in the US is more on the
> > broadcasters -- than the spot producers.
> >
> >
> > --- In Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com, "Mark Spano" <cutandcover@> wrote:
> > >
> > > It's been all anyone in broadcasting (and Congress) can talk about for
> > > the past couple of years. CALM Act, ITU-R BS.1770, -24 LKFS +/-2, etc.
> > >
> > > Couple of links:
> > >
> > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commercial_Advertisement_Loudness_Mitigation_Act
> > >
> > > http://www.itu.int/rec/R-REC-BS.1770-0-200607-S/en
> > >
> > > http://usgovinfo.about.com/od/consumerawareness/a/When-And-How-The-Calm-Act-Will-Be-Enforced.htm
> > >
> > > http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/12/13/us-fcc-idUSTRE7BC27R20111213
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com, "blafarm" <blafarm@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > >Not sure what the EBU does over there, but over here the loudness
> > > > >specs are final. http://tech.ebu.ch/loudness
> > > >
> > > > Curious ... I've not heard of any pending initiative like this
> > > > proposed for the States. Anyone else?
> >
>
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