No, because when you convert for the internet, you're -remapping- to a new format with new limits and new measurements. Same for a film out, the film side would expect proper levels. Yes, there are sneaky ways to cheat anything to try to squeeze a little extra, but like making hot audio, you're going to get into trouble doing it. You don't mess up one format to cheat another.
I think I'm finally catching up to Nigel who says that the grading system doesn't use 601/709, and that's where you want to compensate for the peaks. OK, then that's the problem, the color grading system (which one?) isn't smart enough. Right? Or have I finally caught up to the original issue? Should I leave you guys alone and go back to sleep?
--
Jeff Cook
jeff@cookstudios.com
703-980-1104 (cell)
CookStudios.com
Freelance Video Editing
Washington DC & Portable
On Oct 28, 2011, at 1:22 PM, Terence Curren wrote:
> There are times when you want to include all the range of 601/709. If it's anything other than broadcast, you may want to deliver the full range. Going to a film out is one example. Internet distribution would be another. True, you could work with 16 to 235 as your maximum, but then you are reducing your range of levels to work with.
>
> The problem is the 601/709 color space vs. RGB. 601/709 is actually a camera spec, not a post spec. So Avid just works with the camera spec as that is how things have gone in the past. The new world actually provides many different color spaces depending upon where you are going. Maybe the new ACES standard will eventually become the true standard, but for now we are still living in legacy mode.
>
> --- In Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com, Jeff Cook <jeff@...> wrote:
>>
>> Sure, cameras usually overshoot for additional adjustment in post. But this should never remain in the final product (broadcast or not), and so never be susceptible to clipping. So the complaint is that if levels are left out of spec, then they're getting messed up? Yeah, so?
>>
>> --
>> Jeff Cook
>> jeff@...
>> 703-980-1104 (cell)
>>
>> CookStudios.com
>> Freelance Video Editing
>> Washington DC & Portable
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Oct 28, 2011, at 12:40 PM, Terence Curren wrote:
>>
>>> Now you are seeing the light. in 601 / 709 there is headroom on both ends for the world of video where we can have speculars (highlights) above and superblack keys below.
>>>
>>> And most camera footage I get comes in using those areas to some degree. I want that headroom right up until delivery, at which point I legalize (or not) depending upon the delivery specs.
>>>
>>> So yes, take a full 601 video space and remap to RGB and everything above 235 and below 16 is lost. And yes, that is clipping.
>>>
>>> Going the other direction is no problem because you are remapping 255 to 235.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --- In Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com, Jeff Cook <jeff@> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Sorry, hold on. There's something ABOVE 235? Then it's not properly mapped in the first place, right?
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Jeff Cook
>>>> jeff@
>>>> 703-980-1104 (cell)
>>>>
>>>> CookStudios.com
>>>> Freelance Video Editing
>>>> Washington DC & Portable
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Oct 28, 2011, at 11:20 AM, "Terence Curren" <tcurren@> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Huh? Then what happens to any info above 100 IRE (235 RGB) when you remap that to 255. There is nothing above 255, so what happens to the info above 235?
>>>>>
>>>>> That is what he means by "clipping". That video goes bye bye.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --- In Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com, Jeff Cook <jeff@> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That would be clipping, not remapping. There's clearly something else wrong. Remapping is redistributing, which is designed to translate for proper display.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What you're describing would be simply displaying in the wrong format, which with the lack of file identification over the years (why did you ever have to tell an import what you thought the file was?), is not surprising.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Jeff Cook
>>>>>> jeff@
>>>>>> 703-980-1104 (cell)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> CookStudios.com
>>>>>> Freelance Video Editing
>>>>>> Washington DC & Portable
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Oct 28, 2011, at 9:22 AM, "Nigel Gourley" <avid-l@> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Well.. When you export RGB the avid is remapping 16 to 0 and 235 to 255, So
>>>>>>> this means the original image is clipped at the black and white points which
>>>>>>> isn't good for the grade. Whereas 709 doesn't remap any levels.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> That's my understanding anyway..
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> N
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> From: Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
>>>>>>> Fabrice Altman
>>>>>>> Sent: 28 October 2011 11:47
>>>>>>> To: Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com
>>>>>>> Subject: [Avid-L2] Re: Export TIFF
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> We need the 709 export setting to work.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sorry for the stupid question but why would you absolutely need 709
>>>>>>> for file sequences ?
>>>>>>> Your grading system has a no way to interpret RGB ?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ------------------------------------
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Search the official Complete Avid-L archives at: http://archives.bengrosser.com/avid/
>>>>>>> Yahoo! Groups Links
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ------------------------------------
>>>>>
>>>>> Search the official Complete Avid-L archives at: http://archives.bengrosser.com/avid/
>>>>> Yahoo! Groups Links
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------
>>>
>>> Search the official Complete Avid-L archives at: http://archives.bengrosser.com/avid/
>>> Yahoo! Groups Links
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Search the official Complete Avid-L archives at: http://archives.bengrosser.com/avid/
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
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