Re: [Avid-L2] Re: A plea for Rec run TC on file based shoots, and to introduce 23.976

Regarding greater than 24 hour TC capability, even in production it
would be nice if there was the option to roll over 24 hours...

e.g. when working in a workflow where footage is separated by "shoot
day" and a single "shoot day" frequently or sometimes rolls through
the midnight mark, it would be nice to have a setting to allow TC to
continue running over 24 hrs.

Certainly this wont happen anytime soon in (larger) productions, since
it would need to be implemented on cameras/sound devices/slates/master
clocks/etc. but its an appealing idea!

Implementing in post like Michael suggested seems like a great idea,
and comparatively easy.

Re the introduction of 23.976 DF timecode, I have to say I wouldn't be
a supporter.

DF is such a horrendous pain. Yes, its easier for broadcasters to
calculate the actual running time of a show, and certainly would make
it easier to program the syncing of TC with clock-on-the-wall TC, but
DF is so naaasty.

long term (maybe not that long term), I like the idea of having small
GPS units receiving UTC (over the GPS signal), which can apparently
realistically be accurate within 1msec. This little "GPS-SYNC" box
receives UTC time in the format YYYY:MM:DD:HH:MM:SS:uuuuuu where u is
microseconds, and then converts to what ever format you want (audio
samples after midnight, 23.976 NDF, 30fps DF, 30fps NDF, etc) and can
output TC over a bnc and be attached to a camera... Having the "GPS-
SYNC" unit seperate from the camera / audio device / etc. seems
preferable since for the forseable future such a device would be
fairly expensive ($500-$1000), and be an additional kit/rental or
purchase.

Sound like a pipedream? Perhaps :)

-N

On Jan 25, 2010, at 7:22 AM, phillipsm wrote:

> Semantics aside, my point was to illustrate that both TOD and REC
> RUN are still used in today's workflows and that both source ID's
> can be used in an EDL. While I agree that terms like Labroll and
> Camroll aren't the greatest, I still use Camroll to represent the
> media that came off a single card from my XDCAM... it's as good as
> any I guess. Even the RED file name has a section called REEL. There
> are plenty of custom columns one can create for more comfortable
> terms, but they could only be used as a source ID via XML at this
> time.
>
> Back to Bouke's original point about a drop frame 24TC. I think that
> is a good idea and has been discussed internally before to reflect
> wall time when working at 23.976 for the production master used in
> NTSC based television countries. It can be "manufactured" as a
> display pretty easily. Much like the other manufactured timecode
> that are in MC and not part of SMPTE standards such as:
>
> 25PD: PAL 24fps played out with pulldown (12 frames + 1 field)
> 30NP: 23.976 or 24 played out as 29.97 with 2:2:2:2 pulldown
> 60P: 60fps timecode. While the format exists, there is no SMPTE
> standard for it - all driven by 30fps standards.
>
> And while we're at it, why only have 24 hours in a postproduction
> process? I am not talking about acquisition for REC RUN - but in
> post for transfers and selects reels - why not have up to 99:59:59:xx?
>
> Michael
>
> --- In Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com, "Mark" <markraudonis@...> wrote:
> >
> > "Labroll", "onelight"... seems like the terminology needs to
> update along with the technology.
> >
> > Makr
> >
> > --- In Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com, "phillipsm" <michael_phillips@>
> wrote:
> > >
> > > I am not at all referring to film. I am referring to tape based
> and file based acquired shows and how they are being handled in
> Amercan primetine television. I did not mention the word film omce.
> > >
> > > Michzel
> > >
> > > --- In Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com, "Mark" <markraudonis@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > You're assuming that people are still shooting film... I think
> the discussion started with the assumption that acquisition is FILE
> BASED.
> > > >
> > > > Mark
> > > >
> > > > --- In Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com, "phillipsm"
> <michael_phillips@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > In the higher end television workflows you will see a blend
> of REC RUN and TOD in the workflow. When dailies go through a
> facility for a basic one light and selects "reel" the START now
> reflects the selects and the "Tape" - this is the REC RUN version.
> But each of those clips maintain the original source and TOD
> timecode from the originals - be it file based or tape. These values
> get tracked in a variety of columns - TC24, AUXTC24, AuxTC 1-5, etc.
> Alternate sources are tracked in Camroll or Labroll depending on how
> may generations need to be tracked. EDL Manager can then output any
> source TC and Reel combo for online needs downstream. Avid tracks it
> all. SO it is about getting the best workflow for the production at
> hand - and while 80% are the same, it can be the 20% differences
> that kill you! ;)
> > > > >
> > > > > Michael
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com, Pierre H <ph@> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Bouke said:
> > > > > > > I am thinking that there is no need to shoot Rec Run tc
> anymore on
> > > > > > > file
> > > > > > > based shoots / workflows.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Definitely. Luckily, I was involved at the early stages of
> 2 films -
> > > > > > before shooting - and that's exactly what I asked for:
> Free run TC
> > > > > > based on Time of day. One of them being XDCam, I asked my
> assistant to
> > > > > > add a 4 digits tape number for each day MMDD (Month/Day)
> on ingest.
> > > > > > That way, there is no confusion possible as a same "tape"
> can't have
> > > > > > the same TC twice.
> > > > > > RecRun is very much a tape workflow, but the habit is
> deeply rooted in
> > > > > > most departments.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Pierre
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

------------------------------------

Please donate to the Red Cross to help those in earthquake ravaged Haiti: http://www.redcross.org/en/donatemoney

Search the offical complete Avid-L archives at: http://archives.bengrosser.com/avid/

Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Avid-L2/

<*> Your email settings:
Individual Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Avid-L2/join
(Yahoo! ID required)

<*> To change settings via email:
Avid-L2-digest@yahoogroups.com
Avid-L2-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Avid-L2-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/