Monday, November 16, 2009

RE: [Avid-L2] Re: And Now a Word About Online Finishing

Geez, you guys should REALLY check out DS some time...


HD Heaven Limited (company no: 04620550) is registered in England and Wales
at Branston Court, Branston Street, Birmingham BL8 6BA

-----Original Message-----
From: Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
guanacaa@aol.com
Sent: 16 November 2009 17:19
To: Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Avid-L2] Re: And Now a Word About Online Finishing

Hey, isn't it Pan and ZOOM, not Pan and SCAN?
I think the visual results are fine, and it wouldn't need much more
functionality to be plausible for simple moves. Even incorporating the
spline parameters from the 3D effect would help.
Shirley

-----Original Message-----
From: Dave Spraker <avid@spraker.tv>
To: Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sun, Nov 15, 2009 9:19 pm
Subject: RE: [Avid-L2] Re: And Now a Word About Online Finishing


Steve -

I agree that P&S is a POS - they should just take it out. But why not use
BCC or Avid FX? Clean, simple, part of the sequence.

Dave Spraker
Account Executive & Avid Specialist
Professional Video and Tape
503.810.3642 - cell
AIM: dAVID at PVT

-----Original Message-----
From: Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
Steve Hullfish
Sent: Sunday, November 15, 2009 10:26 AM
To: Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Avid-L2] Re: And Now a Word About Online Finishing


Chris is PREACHING NOW BABY. Great couple of recent posts, Chris. Well
thought out. I hope someone at Avid is listening, because you've summarized
what they need to accomplish to remain relevant.

I agree with a lot of this. The latest Media Composer hassle for me was
trying to do moves on a bunch of hi-res stills for a recent freelance gig.
HORRIBLE! The producer - to my horror - said "This is so easy to do in FCP."
I had to agree! It's sad. Pan and Scan is a total joke. I understand that
the architecture of the Avid won't support the same functionality as FCP in
terms of using hi-res sources, but at least have a work around that
EVENTUALLY looks good. I had to take all of the moves (hundreds of them)
into After Effects and then export and import them. THey ended up looking
great, but at a price tag in a LOT of wasted time.

You are correct in that many of Avid's tools are OK, but not good enough for
a real on-line finish. Color Correction is definitely showing its age. No
decent secondary color correction. Horrible DVE.
Mediocre CG or a move to Marquee which looks good, but nobody seems to want
to use. FCP in this category is actually far worse than Avid. But Premiere
is actually miles BETTER.

Recent changes in getting multi-frame-rate source material into Avid
sequences is a GREAT step in the right direction, but so much of the effects
portion, beyond simple editing (which is obviously rock solid on an Avid) is
truly bad.

The funny post about "if an integrated environment is so important, then why
isn't everyone using Adobe? With Terry's answer of "Premiere." Maybe Adobe
should buy Avid and solve two problems with one merger. Adobe would own a
good, recognized editing solution and Avid would learn how to be integrated
and effects-friendly. Plus, I'm sure all of those Tewksburians would love to
move to sunny San Jose.


On Nov 15, 2009, at 12:01 PM, chris magid wrote:

> A few points.
> 1-Thrid party plug-ins do not play nice with native effects in many
> cases.
> 2-Third party plug-ins are available across many different systems and
> therefore do not give any editor that relies on them a competitive
> advantage. Especially an editor which has such a heavy reliance on
> them.
> 3-Managing stacks of third party of plug-ins is cumbersome in Avid's
> current nesting architecture. A real bitch with imported alpha
> material or combinations which must be repetitively applied.
> 4-Composer's track to track alpha behavior and handling of alpha
> material in general curtails the effectiveness of plug-ins as compared
> to their use on other systems.
>
> 5-The use of third party plug ins with items such as titles requires
> the destruction of the ability to revise those titles easily.
> 6-It is really a poor excuse when you have to say things like "sure
> the Avid has a DVE built in, but I wouldn't use it for anything really
> important". Why are the tools there if they don't work well or are
> feature poor in their original 1995 to 1999 iterations?
> Doesn't this reflect on the poorly on the entire Composer experience
> and Avid as a company. Crap. Only half of the things on the feature
> sheet can be used acceptably in most professional situations. Even a
> soft edged wipe or vignette can be problematic. I want to be able to
> move a static graphic around without issue. I want a soft shadow or
> color correction on my key. IS THAT SO WRONG?
> 7-Performance. The much touted realtime advantages of Symphony/
> Composer DX degrades almost completely when using 3rd party plug ins
> or helper applications.
> 8-Control and quality. Some plug ins are better than others...sapphire
> and BCC look good. But not all plug ins are 10 or
> 16 bit. And all plug ins operate differently in image handling.
> Bouncing your picture around different bit depths, color conversions
> and processing certainly can't help.
> I want to do SIMPLE THINGS in the Avid environment with the tools Avid
> provided which claim to perform those specific functions. I also would
> like a couple steps forward just a little more towards the features
> and functions which have become commonplace in modern post production.
> Generally, if the button is there you should be able to push it and
> have good things happen. If not, you have built a Kia instead of a
> Cadillac...umm make that instead of a Lexus.
> Chris MagidRTVF
>
> --- On Sat, 11/14/09, johnrobmoore <bigfish@pacbell.net> wrote:
>
> From: johnrobmoore <bigfish@pacbell.net>
> Subject: [Avid-L2] Re: And Now a Word About Online Finishing
> To: Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Saturday, November 14, 2009, 11:41 PM
>
>
>
> When I started linear editing everything I did went straight to air.
> 3/4 to 1 inch and then 1 inch to 1 inch show composite. There was
> clean and trace but that didn't fall into play on most magazine
> television and documentary work that I worked on. So saying there is
> no more online is really nothing new to me. Back in those days your
> effects choices were dictated by which switcher and what DVE you had.
> So in essence you had to learn a new device or piece of
> software/hardware all the time. Having to go to AE from Avid is very
> similar although the complexity of the software today makes it harder
> to master than the crop of DVE's we dealt with back in the day.
>
> Curious how many of the short commings you have with Avid's effects
> are available in BCC which comes bundled? Do you find things like Avid
> FX and BCC also suffer from poor image quality etc...?
>
> --- In Avid-L2@yahoogroups .com, chris magid <chris_rtvf@ ...> wrote:
>
> >
>
> THERE IS NO MORE ONLINE...THERE IS NO MORE OFFLINE for most projects.
>
> >
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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------------------------------------

Search the offical complete Avid-L archives at:
http://archives.bengrosser.com/avid/

Everything you MUST know about Color Correction in one book:
http://tinyurl.com/ColorCorectionforvideo Get your copy todayYahoo! Groups
Links

------------------------------------

Search the offical complete Avid-L archives at: http://archives.bengrosser.com/avid/

Everything you MUST know about Color Correction in one book: http://tinyurl.com/ColorCorectionforvideo Get your copy todayYahoo! Groups Links

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