Saturday, December 17, 2016

Re: [Avid-L2] Re: Epic 5K 4800x2700 5K Footage and Frame Flex for Transcode?

 

Yes, you should, if that is your intent.


On Sat, Dec 17, 2016 at 2:58 PM bigfish@pacbell.net [Avid-L2] <Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

I just noticed in the Transcode window there is raster dimensions which can be set to project size or source original size.  I'm wondering if I should be setting this to Source Original Size to maintain all the pixels?  I haven't worked with odd frame sizes very much so I don't have a clear understanding of how these settings effect proper translations of Frame Flex etc... from offline to online.

In my case I'm preprocessing the camera media for later relink so now it's just important to maintain as much quality as possible without distorting the pixels if possible.



---In Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com, <pale.edit@...> wrote :

Yes.  You are seeing the original size in the bin.  Even if you transcode down to SD it will still say that for raster size.




On Fri, Dec 16, 2016 at 10:25 PM bigfish@... [Avid-L2] <Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com> wrote:






























 



















The first file has processed and in the bin it still lists the raster size at 4800x2700 but when I take the .mxf file into Media Info it lists the file as 4096x2160, which matches the project format.  I assume Avid somehow keeps track of the original size dimensions so that any frame flex manipulations will translate properly in the end.  Media Info also lists the aspect ratio as 16:9 which is in fact the original aspect ratio of the 5K Red footage but if it is now 4096x2160 that's 1.9:1 not 106:9 ratio.  Is Avid somehow creating anamorphic pixels in the transcode process that a program like Media Info and other player software would recognize? 

Here is the Media Info specs in the Video category:

Video
ID : 3
Format : VC-3
Format settings, wrapping mode : Clip
Codec ID : 0D01030102110200-0401020271250000
Duration : 1h 26mn
Bit rate : 746 Mbps
Width : 4 096 pixels
Height : 2 160 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 16:9
Frame rate : 23.976 (24000/1001) fps
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:2
Bit depth : 12 bits
Scan type : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 3.515
Stream size : 448 GiB (100%)
Title : V1
Matrix coefficients : BT.709



---In Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com, <bigfish@...> wrote :

On my Red 4K 4096x2160 project of course the second shoot was shot at 5K 16:9 not 1.9 Aspect Ratio.  I ama link to the media and I set frame flex to 1.9:1 from the default of 16:9 for the media.  I am transcoding to DNxHRHQX using Camera Metadata and a Full Range to Legal Scaler along with the aforementioned Frame Flex setting.  I am not baking anything in on the transcode.  I just started the process but I'm curious will the resulting DNxHRHQX transcodes be 4096x2160 or will the maintain the original 4800x2700 pixel count.  We have done a similar approach on some other odd frame sizes but I haven't seen the results in online yet.  I do know on the other clips for offline when we didn't bake in the frame flex the resulting offline DNX 36 clips still displayed the full frame pixels for the odd sized clips.  I assume that will allow for a proper online conform as the frame flex parameters they might apply in offline will properly translate to online sequence.  My limited experience in this area suggests that if we bake in the frame flex it will lose track of the original medias odd frame sizes.

Can anyone clarify the workflow with Red or any other camera that shoots in odd frame sizes?
 

John Moore Barking Trout Productions Studio City, CA bigfish@...













































































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Re: [Avid-L2] Re: Epic 5K 4800x2700 5K Footage and Frame Flex for Transcode?

 

I just noticed in the Transcode window there is raster dimensions which can be set to project size or source original size.  I'm wondering if I should be setting this to Source Original Size to maintain all the pixels?  I haven't worked with odd frame sizes very much so I don't have a clear understanding of how these settings effect proper translations of Frame Flex etc... from offline to online.

In my case I'm preprocessing the camera media for later relink so now it's just important to maintain as much quality as possible without distorting the pixels if possible.



---In Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com, <pale.edit@...> wrote :

Yes.  You are seeing the original size in the bin.  Even if you transcode down to SD it will still say that for raster size.




On Fri, Dec 16, 2016 at 10:25 PM bigfish@... [Avid-L2] <Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com> wrote:






























 



















The first file has processed and in the bin it still lists the raster size at 4800x2700 but when I take the .mxf file into Media Info it lists the file as 4096x2160, which matches the project format.  I assume Avid somehow keeps track of the original size dimensions so that any frame flex manipulations will translate properly in the end.  Media Info also lists the aspect ratio as 16:9 which is in fact the original aspect ratio of the 5K Red footage but if it is now 4096x2160 that's 1.9:1 not 106:9 ratio.  Is Avid somehow creating anamorphic pixels in the transcode process that a program like Media Info and other player software would recognize? 

Here is the Media Info specs in the Video category:

Video
ID : 3
Format : VC-3
Format settings, wrapping mode : Clip
Codec ID : 0D01030102110200-0401020271250000
Duration : 1h 26mn
Bit rate : 746 Mbps
Width : 4 096 pixels
Height : 2 160 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 16:9
Frame rate : 23.976 (24000/1001) fps
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:2
Bit depth : 12 bits
Scan type : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 3.515
Stream size : 448 GiB (100%)
Title : V1
Matrix coefficients : BT.709



---In Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com, <bigfish@...> wrote :

On my Red 4K 4096x2160 project of course the second shoot was shot at 5K 16:9 not 1.9 Aspect Ratio.  I ama link to the media and I set frame flex to 1.9:1 from the default of 16:9 for the media.  I am transcoding to DNxHRHQX using Camera Metadata and a Full Range to Legal Scaler along with the aforementioned Frame Flex setting.  I am not baking anything in on the transcode.  I just started the process but I'm curious will the resulting DNxHRHQX transcodes be 4096x2160 or will the maintain the original 4800x2700 pixel count.  We have done a similar approach on some other odd frame sizes but I haven't seen the results in online yet.  I do know on the other clips for offline when we didn't bake in the frame flex the resulting offline DNX 36 clips still displayed the full frame pixels for the odd sized clips.  I assume that will allow for a proper online conform as the frame flex parameters they might apply in offline will properly translate to online sequence.  My limited experience in this area suggests that if we bake in the frame flex it will lose track of the original medias odd frame sizes.

Can anyone clarify the workflow with Red or any other camera that shoots in odd frame sizes?
 

John Moore Barking Trout Productions Studio City, CA bigfish@...









































__._,_.___

Posted by: bigfish@pacbell.net
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Friday, December 16, 2016

Re: [Avid-L2] Re: Epic 5K 4800x2700 5K Footage and Frame Flex for Transcode?

 

Yes.  You are seeing the original size in the bin.  Even if you transcode down to SD it will still say that for raster size.




On Fri, Dec 16, 2016 at 10:25 PM bigfish@pacbell.net [Avid-L2] <Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com> wrote:






























 



















The first file has processed and in the bin it still lists the raster size at 4800x2700 but when I take the .mxf file into Media Info it lists the file as 4096x2160, which matches the project format.  I assume Avid somehow keeps track of the original size dimensions so that any frame flex manipulations will translate properly in the end.  Media Info also lists the aspect ratio as 16:9 which is in fact the original aspect ratio of the 5K Red footage but if it is now 4096x2160 that's 1.9:1 not 106:9 ratio.  Is Avid somehow creating anamorphic pixels in the transcode process that a program like Media Info and other player software would recognize? 

Here is the Media Info specs in the Video category:

Video
ID : 3
Format : VC-3
Format settings, wrapping mode : Clip
Codec ID : 0D01030102110200-0401020271250000
Duration : 1h 26mn
Bit rate : 746 Mbps
Width : 4 096 pixels
Height : 2 160 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 16:9
Frame rate : 23.976 (24000/1001) fps
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:2
Bit depth : 12 bits
Scan type : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 3.515
Stream size : 448 GiB (100%)
Title : V1
Matrix coefficients : BT.709



---In Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com, <bigfish@...> wrote :

On my Red 4K 4096x2160 project of course the second shoot was shot at 5K 16:9 not 1.9 Aspect Ratio.  I ama link to the media and I set frame flex to 1.9:1 from the default of 16:9 for the media.  I am transcoding to DNxHRHQX using Camera Metadata and a Full Range to Legal Scaler along with the aforementioned Frame Flex setting.  I am not baking anything in on the transcode.  I just started the process but I'm curious will the resulting DNxHRHQX transcodes be 4096x2160 or will the maintain the original 4800x2700 pixel count.  We have done a similar approach on some other odd frame sizes but I haven't seen the results in online yet.  I do know on the other clips for offline when we didn't bake in the frame flex the resulting offline DNX 36 clips still displayed the full frame pixels for the odd sized clips.  I assume that will allow for a proper online conform as the frame flex parameters they might apply in offline will properly translate to online sequence.  My limited experience in this area suggests that if we bake in the frame flex it will lose track of the original medias odd frame sizes.

Can anyone clarify the workflow with Red or any other camera that shoots in odd frame sizes?
 

John Moore Barking Trout Productions Studio City, CA bigfish@...









































__._,_.___

Posted by: John Pale <pale.edit@gmail.com>
Reply via web post Reply to sender Reply to group Start a New Topic Messages in this topic (3)

Have you tried the highest rated email app?
With 4.5 stars in iTunes, the Yahoo Mail app is the highest rated email app on the market. What are you waiting for? Now you can access all your inboxes (Gmail, Outlook, AOL and more) in one place. Never delete an email again with 1000GB of free cloud storage.

this is the Avid-L2

.

__,_._,___

[Avid-L2] Re: Epic 5K 4800x2700 5K Footage and Frame Flex for Transcode?

 

The first file has processed and in the bin it still lists the raster size at 4800x2700 but when I take the .mxf file into Media Info it lists the file as 4096x2160, which matches the project format.  I assume Avid somehow keeps track of the original size dimensions so that any frame flex manipulations will translate properly in the end.  Media Info also lists the aspect ratio as 16:9 which is in fact the original aspect ratio of the 5K Red footage but if it is now 4096x2160 that's 1.9:1 not 106:9 ratio.  Is Avid somehow creating anamorphic pixels in the transcode process that a program like Media Info and other player software would recognize? 

Here is the Media Info specs in the Video category:

Video
ID : 3
Format : VC-3
Format settings, wrapping mode : Clip
Codec ID : 0D01030102110200-0401020271250000
Duration : 1h 26mn
Bit rate : 746 Mbps
Width : 4 096 pixels
Height : 2 160 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 16:9
Frame rate : 23.976 (24000/1001) fps
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:2
Bit depth : 12 bits
Scan type : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 3.515
Stream size : 448 GiB (100%)
Title : V1
Matrix coefficients : BT.709



---In Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com, <bigfish@...> wrote :

On my Red 4K 4096x2160 project of course the second shoot was shot at 5K 16:9 not 1.9 Aspect Ratio.  I ama link to the media and I set frame flex to 1.9:1 from the default of 16:9 for the media.  I am transcoding to DNxHRHQX using Camera Metadata and a Full Range to Legal Scaler along with the aforementioned Frame Flex setting.  I am not baking anything in on the transcode.  I just started the process but I'm curious will the resulting DNxHRHQX transcodes be 4096x2160 or will the maintain the original 4800x2700 pixel count.  We have done a similar approach on some other odd frame sizes but I haven't seen the results in online yet.  I do know on the other clips for offline when we didn't bake in the frame flex the resulting offline DNX 36 clips still displayed the full frame pixels for the odd sized clips.  I assume that will allow for a proper online conform as the frame flex parameters they might apply in offline will properly translate to online sequence.  My limited experience in this area suggests that if we bake in the frame flex it will lose track of the original medias odd frame sizes.

Can anyone clarify the workflow with Red or any other camera that shoots in odd frame sizes?
 
John Moore Barking Trout Productions Studio City, CA bigfish@...

__._,_.___

Posted by: bigfish@pacbell.net
Reply via web post Reply to sender Reply to group Start a New Topic Messages in this topic (2)

Have you tried the highest rated email app?
With 4.5 stars in iTunes, the Yahoo Mail app is the highest rated email app on the market. What are you waiting for? Now you can access all your inboxes (Gmail, Outlook, AOL and more) in one place. Never delete an email again with 1000GB of free cloud storage.

this is the Avid-L2

.

__,_._,___

Re: [Avid-L2] OT: Shotput Pro Copy/Process times?

 

Hi Bogdan,
No, sorry. I was referring to the 'cpu intensive'  remark…
I'm on my Mac laptop now, difficult mail reader to do exact responses.
Trust me, you've never ever (AFAIK) said anything i've disagreed with!

Bouke

Edit 'B / VideoToolShed.com
van Oldenbarneveltstraat 33
6512 AS  Nijmegen
+31 6 21817248

On Dec 15, 2016, at 22:34, Bogdan Grigorescu bogdan_grigorescu@yahoo.com [Avid-L2] <Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

are you talking to me Bouke?

BG

__._,_.___

Posted by: Bouke <bouke@editb.nl>
Reply via web post Reply to sender Reply to group Start a New Topic Messages in this topic (18)

Have you tried the highest rated email app?
With 4.5 stars in iTunes, the Yahoo Mail app is the highest rated email app on the market. What are you waiting for? Now you can access all your inboxes (Gmail, Outlook, AOL and more) in one place. Never delete an email again with 1000GB of free cloud storage.

this is the Avid-L2

.

__,_._,___

[Avid-L2] Epic 5K 4800x2700 5K Footage and Frame Flex for Transcode?

 

On my Red 4K 4096x2160 project of course the second shoot was shot at 5K 16:9 not 1.9 Aspect Ratio.  I ama link to the media and I set frame flex to 1.9:1 from the default of 16:9 for the media.  I am transcoding to DNxHRHQX using Camera Metadata and a Full Range to Legal Scaler along with the aforementioned Frame Flex setting.  I am not baking anything in on the transcode.  I just started the process but I'm curious will the resulting DNxHRHQX transcodes be 4096x2160 or will the maintain the original 4800x2700 pixel count.  We have done a similar approach on some other odd frame sizes but I haven't seen the results in online yet.  I do know on the other clips for offline when we didn't bake in the frame flex the resulting offline DNX 36 clips still displayed the full frame pixels for the odd sized clips.  I assume that will allow for a proper online conform as the frame flex parameters they might apply in offline will properly translate to online sequence.  My limited experience in this area suggests that if we bake in the frame flex it will lose track of the original medias odd frame sizes.

Can anyone clarify the workflow with Red or any other camera that shoots in odd frame sizes?
 
John Moore Barking Trout Productions Studio City, CA bigfish@pacbell.net

__._,_.___

Posted by: John Moore <bigfish@pacbell.net>
Reply via web post Reply to sender Reply to group Start a New Topic Messages in this topic (1)

Have you tried the highest rated email app?
With 4.5 stars in iTunes, the Yahoo Mail app is the highest rated email app on the market. What are you waiting for? Now you can access all your inboxes (Gmail, Outlook, AOL and more) in one place. Never delete an email again with 1000GB of free cloud storage.

this is the Avid-L2

.

__,_._,___

Re: [Avid-L2] OT: Shotput Pro Copy/Process times?

 

Okay to follow up with my latest info we took a laptop with ShotPut Pro and it took 9.5 hours for the MD5 checksum copy.  A straight finder level copy on that system said it would 7.5 hours.  So in the case of the camera originals it seemed to add approx 27% to the copy process.



---In Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com, <jeff@...> wrote :

Also, keep in mind that 1TB of small files takes longer to copy than a single 1TB file.
(DPX sequence is lots of small files)

Jeff

------------------
Jeff Hedberg

Director of Operations
Union Editorial
575 Broadway,6th floor
New York, NY 10012

On Dec 16, 2016, at 12:51 AM, Michael Brockington mbrock321@... [Avid-L2] <Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


I don't think Shotput Pro's copy time estimates are all that accurate, at least with the older version on Macs.

I did some benchmarking with the program in 2014.  Copy without checksum took about the same time as a desktop file copy (so the limiting factor was the speed of the disks.)  Adding MD5 checksums doubled the copy time, as others have reported.

A notable advantage to Shotput Pro is that adding additional copy destinations doesn't increase the copy time.  If you have 2 target drives set as destinations, then 2 copies should take about the same length of time as doing a single copy.  That's assuming you're using a fast interface like USB3 or thunderbolt.   It reads the source file only once and does the writes in parallel, presumably.

So if you have to make 2 copies anyway, you can turn on the MD5 checksums in Shotput Pro, and it should take about as long as doing 2 copies sequentially in the finder without any checksum.

I used 128 GB of test data.  It took 19 minutes with no checksum, 38 minutes with MD5 checksum, copying to an empty 2TB Lacie rugged drive (only 5400 RPM.)

Cheers,

--Michael Brockington


On 2016-12-15 11:46 AM, John Moore bigfish@... [Avid-L2] wrote:
 
After my recent thread regarding copying software the offered MD5 checksum and a log Shotput Pro was suggested by several.  We purchased it and on a MacPro Tower with a 4TB Graid source drive and a 20TB Graid target drive, both connected to a usb 3 card for approximately 1 TB of Panasonic Varicam 35 4096x2160 avc-intra media the computer said 24 hours to copy.  After a few restarts they moved the software to a different MacPro Tower.  Both Macs are mid 2010 modified to 12 core running OS 10.9.5.  The second computer said 12 hours but both seemed to stall in the process.

We are not familiar with this process but I have been told by a more experienced friend the MD5 is CPU intensive.  The CPU are 12 core 3.33Ghz.  I can't believe that DITs in the field are taking 12 hours to copy drives to comply with the checksum MD5 log that is being required by the network.  Most of our shoots have more like 2TB of camera media.  I know there are options to just check file size and other check sum types that aren't as time consuming but the network specifically requests MD5.  Is the large size of video files making the MD5 process much longer than it would be with more typical data that IT folks would deal with.

What should 1TB of camera media take to copy  on the above listed drives with an MD5 checksum.

Also due to our OS they are running ShotPut Pro 5.x not 6 as that requires OS 10.10 which won't work with the rest of our infrastructure.
 
John Moore Barking Trout Productions Studio City, CA bigfish@...



__._,_.___

Posted by: bigfish@pacbell.net
Reply via web post Reply to sender Reply to group Start a New Topic Messages in this topic (17)

Have you tried the highest rated email app?
With 4.5 stars in iTunes, the Yahoo Mail app is the highest rated email app on the market. What are you waiting for? Now you can access all your inboxes (Gmail, Outlook, AOL and more) in one place. Never delete an email again with 1000GB of free cloud storage.

this is the Avid-L2

.

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