I realize that I can detect cadence in the timewarp effect etc... That's not the kind of application I'm talking about. Say I'm given a finished show as a source and that show is random cadence like happened in all shows back when they would cut in a 29.97i project with material that had 2:3 pulldown added. This is how most of the episodic work was onlined before there was the ability to record 23.976 etc... to tape. Or a specific example would be all the series I did that were shot in 23.976 mode to DVCProHD tape. Our Panny 1200 and 1400 decks were set to take the tapes and play them out to 59.94i HDSDI and they were captured as 59.94i sources in a 59.94i project. Now each shot has it's own cadence and the whole thing is absolutely fine for the original broadcast version but later you want to take that show as a source into a 23.976 project. That's were random cadence pulldown removal in real time would be great. Playback the original air master tape and record to a pristine 23.976 tape that can then be ingested properly into Avid. When I spoke with the folks at Snell and Wilcox a few NABs ago they said their unit could do that. I didn't get into specifics at that point because that meant I'd have a 23.976 master at least that's what I inferred from that conversation. Perhaps Snell and Wilcox units would have generated a new constant cadence 29.97i like you are talking about but that's not what I was asking for from them. Now if that's the limitation to the new Teranex boxes that could still be captured directly into Avid from the new constant cadence master with pulldown removed on ingest so whether it ends up as a 2:3 master or true 23.976 master at least on tape that would work. If it's generating files then I'm less familiar with pulldown removal on file based material in the sense of ingest and I would expect to bring it into a native frame rate project and adjust the motion adapters for pulldown removal.
Bottom line is I want to playback a source with random cadence and end up with a new master that is perfect 23.976. Sounds like from what you've found Teranex can't do that. I'll have to double check if Snell and Wilcox still has big iron units that do that.
---In Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com, <cutandcover@...> wrote :It's unknown to me if prior Teranex could remove mixed cadence. But I do know that MC can do a good job detecting, so it's likely worth taking the time to do it there, knowing it will be correct. Besides, in thinking of the application, what would you most likely be doing this for? In my experience, it's to use some pulldown-added 29.97i material in a 23.98p sequence. Even if the Teranex could do it, you'd still get a constant cadence 2:3 29.97i thing that you'd have to then remove - forget it. The most direct route, the one which is proven to work, that's the one I use. We've talked about this before ;)On Mon, Jul 18, 2016 at 9:09 PM, bigfish@... [Avid-L2] <Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com> wrote:So this points to the issue I thought I was misinformed on or misunderstood. Did pre Black Magic Teranex units remove random cadence in real time like what the Snell and Wilcox told me their unit(s) could do when I asked a few NABs ago?
I haven't really though about conversions other than pulldown addition and removal. Does a blended conversion help when going from 29.97 back to 23.976? I can see how that might help out but generally it's those blended frames that get rejections in my experience. A&E networks likes to call them "Ghost Frames" from what I've heard but I'm not sure if that term is specific to blended frames or some other baked in blended frame issue. It is a catchy name thou.
---In Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com, <cutandcover@...> wrote :Agreed with this. My experience with the Teranex 2D in house is that it can't do mixed cadence removal, and even if it could (as it says in the manual), it only outputs that as a 2:3 added 1080/29.97i. It also can not do non-blended conversions outside of pulldown addition, so most of the conversions it does are what's falling under rejection territory at Netflix/Hulu/etc.. A nice blending it can do, and it's got a nice noise reduction algorithm as well. Beyond that, MC is better for most purposes.On Sat, Jul 16, 2016 at 1:21 PM, oliverpeters@... [Avid-L2] <Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com> wrote:BTW - if you are trying to fix mixed cadence (mixed shots all with 3:2 in a 59.94i timeline) in order to reconstruct a perfect 23.976p timeline, then the only flawless method I've found is Media Composer. You have to go shot-by-shot and yes it is painstaking, but it works.
Posted by: Mark Spano <cutandcover@gmail.com>
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