Re: [Avid-L2] Re: Wow Size does matter in offline even at DNX 45

I've collaborated on about 20 reality shows in the last year and a half and
everything has been SD 15:1, 10:1, etc. in both tape based and tapeless
workflows. Red usually gets transcoded to DNxHD 36 so that producers don't
ask where their money went. Besides pilots, I don't see why any reality
show would even consider cutting in HD proxies. It's even a battle working
in SD proxies on 2 Isis' and a Unity with over 200TB of combined storage.


On Tue, May 7, 2013 at 2:08 PM, johnrobmoore <bigfish@pacbell.net> wrote:

> **
>
>
> You seem to have hit the nail on the head with my initial concern when I
> saw just how big the offline media was. For the 9 plus cam multicamera
> reality shows I do storage on the unity would be taken up very quickly.
> While NAS may be relatively cheap the need to have the offline media on the
> unity/isis seems to really point to the more traditional SD resolutions
> like 10:1 which I see used a lot.
>
>
> --- In Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com, "Dom Q. Silverio" <domqsilverio@...>
> wrote:
> >
> > AMA relink is usually a pain only for the assistant offline and online
> > editors. Often, it is something you can resolve with an extra day or two
> of
> > conform. Properly planned, it is of minimal cost.
> >
> > Long term shared storage is much more expensive.
> >
> > 15:1s starts around 2 GB per hour. XDCAM EX is 20 GB per hour. We are not
> > even discussing XDCAM HD, AVC-I, DNXHD or any of the common larger HD
> > formats.
> >
> >
> > That is 10 times more storage for the entire life of the show. Not to
> > mention render and overall performance is worse with these heavily
> > compressed HD codecs.
> >
> > Multicam is also an issue. Not only with storage and performance, but the
> > bandwidth you require from your server and infrastructure.
> >
> >
> > No matter what shared storage you buy like ISIS, EditShare, or
> Terrablock,
> > expanding these storages are expensive. Even with renting, where you
> > mitigate a lot of the long-term risks, it is still quite a burden on the
> > show's budget.
> >
> > It really depends on so many factors if you are going native/hi-res or
> > offline/online workflow. But for long form collaborative environment
> > offline/online is generally a better workflow IMHO.
> >
> >
> > Dom Q. Silverio
> >
> >
> > On Tue, May 7, 2013 at 12:49 PM, Rupert Watson <rupert@...> wrote:
> >
> > > Andi
> > >
> > > I recognize the workflow but I personally think that more time and
> money
> > > has been lost pursuing this sort of cockamamie workflow, and all the
> > > relinking that goes with it, than has been saved by not buying big
> > > enough work-in-progress storage to allow editing with the native media
> > > files...
> > >
> > > Rupert Watson
> > > +44 7787 554 801
> > > www.root6.com
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com] On
> Behalf
> > > Of Andi Meek
> > > Sent: 07 May 2013 11:43
> > > To: Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com
> > > Subject: RE: [Avid-L2] Re: Wow Size does matter in offline even at DNX
> > > 45
> > >
> > > The large productions I work on all transcode down to 15:1s, 20:1 or
> > > 10:1 (PAL resolutions). A lot of the rushes are shot on XDCAM or other
> > > native formats so that's always kept native for online, anything else
> > > gets DNxHD185. The rushes are copied to a NAS, copied to an archive,
> > > AMA linked from the NAS in Avid and then transcoded down on to ISIS
> > > storage for offline editing. None of the shows I work on (a lot of
> > > reality tv like The Apprentice etc.) use DNX resolutions for offline,
> > > it's all SD still. Finally for conforming, the ISIS is unmounted, the
> > > AMA bins are reopened from the NAS and the sequence is relinked to the
> > > high res media and consolidated on to a new online ISIS workspace. Job
> > > done! (Although it's never that easy...)
> > >
> > > Andi
> > >
> > > To: Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com
> > > From: yardley.david@...
>
> > > Date: Tue, 7 May 2013 10:30:42 +0000
> > > Subject: [Avid-L2] Re: Wow Size does matter in offline even at DNX 45
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > John,
> > >
> > > At $75/Tb surely it is a no-brainer.
> > >
> > > Avoid all that relinking mucking about.
> > >
> > > I cannot resist saying that my first Avid storage was $4,000,000/Tb
> > >
> > > Yay I had 1.5Gb!
> > >
> > > David
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In Avid-L2@yahoogroups.com, John Moore <bigfish@> wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > > This is just an observation I had tonight on a project we've been
> > > working on at home. This was the test run on ama in house for me. I
> > > did the initial transcode to DNX 220 then transcoded that to DNX 45 for
> > > offline. I was surprised to see that the offline media for this half
> > > hour show was 341 GB and the online res was about 1.4TB. I know there
> > > are size calculators out there but I hadn't realize how much space an
> > > entire project takes at DNX 45. My work is mainly online so I've
> > > forgotten just how fast things add up in the offline world. It makes me
> > > rethink how I would manage a large reality production. Trying to keep
> > > all the original DNX 220 transcodes seems a lot less viable on a large
> > > scale than I had thought. I know storage is relatively cheap but even
> > > so it would get burned up pretty quickly the way I was approaching the
> > > in house show.
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > > I'm curious how others working on larger scale projects are going
> > > about the ama workflows. What I was hoping to avoid by initially
> > > transcoding to the online resolution seems like it wouldn't be
> > > sustainable on the typical Reality shows I work on.
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > > John Moore
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > > Barking Trout Productions
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > > Studio City, CA
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > > bigfish@
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
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> > >
> > >
> > >
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> > >
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ------------------------------------
> > >
> > > Search the official Complete Avid-L archives at:
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> > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > www.root6.com/blog
> > > Our resource for the latest news, support tips and articles
> > >
> > >
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> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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